Portal season (Abson, Spillers, etc)

[mike87]

Simple question to the group. If you or your child were in a similar situation would you advise them to stay or go? And when I say situation, take out your love for App and think about in terms of your kid, who doesn’t have that same love or devotion. I’m not saying that these are sound decisions, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know the personal motivations and without that information, are we in a position judge?

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We, or at least I, also have the advantage of looking at this with old eyes. What I know to be important now, experiences trump financial gains, I didn't learn to appreciate until well after my 20s and not sure that I even fully appreciated it when my boys were 18-20 years old.
Which is also why, having the adult in the room making hard decisions is needed. (yes, looking at your NCAA)

[AppStFan1]

Simple question to the group. If you or your child were in a similar situation would you advise them to stay or go? And when I say situation, take out your love for App and think about in terms of your kid, who doesn’t have that same love or devotion. I’m not saying that these are sound decisions, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know the personal motivations and without that information, are we in a position judge?

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We, or at least I, also have the advantage of looking at this with old eyes. What I know to be important now, experiences trump financial gains, I didn't learn to appreciate until well after my 20s and not sure that I even fully appreciated it when my boys were 18-20 years old.
Which is also why, having the adult in the room making hard decisions is needed. (yes, looking at your NCAA)

Money will disappear but legacy and memories created last forever. I also think you can sometimes make more money in long run by making a legacy for yourself on the court. We really do need the adults to step up for sure.

[pop5app]

With All this speculation being said: we are going to play next year with the players we have. Do we have 4 recruits? Are they signed? Have any backed out of their commitments? Is Huntley gone for sure? Someone mentioned Luke Wilson being in a boot during the season. Is he ok? With this inventory I don’t feel very optimistic. Has a team ever lost 100% of its team scoring from one year to the next? Looking ahead is going to be hard.

[HurricaneYosef]

Some recent grads that are currently playing professionally:

Michael Almonacy
Adrian Delph
Isaac Johnson (G League)
Justin Forrest
Tyrell Johnson
O'Showen Williams

I might be missing a few, and Ronshad Shabazz could be playing overseas still but decided to start his post hoops life.. is getting married later this month actually

[hapapp]

The only communication that I would expect is if there is an extension to his contract. He still has two years left so it isn’t necessarily going to be done. While it might provide stability, I don’t necessarily believe that it will be a factor in some guys taking their names out of the portal. It could happen regardless.

There is a lot of unknowns driving some anxiousness and rumors. Let’s focus on what we do know. We will have a coach next season and we will have a roster full of guys that can play. No we will not have the same team as last year but we all knew that before last week. Gregory and Huntley were gone regardless and chemistry matters. Turnover is the nature of the beast.

If just Spillers and Abson entered that would lower expectations but the mass exodus had people wondering if Kerns is gone or something major happened behind the scenes. Other teams have lost a few players to the portal but the only teams who have had a major loss of basically all scholarship players with extensive time besides us are all having a coaching change.

I don't have any clue when we will hear something but I don't see any way that an extension or new deal announcement does not come soon. If Kerns is able to get us back to the top of league standings after this mass turnover I would think he will be a hot name and we should be prepared by working on a higher buyout so we at least get value back.

I do understand that. We just don’t know how conversations went with the other guys. Brown wanted to get closer to home which I get. Mantis was likely told that we would look in the portal to replace his minutes because let’s face it, he was a liability. Harcum saw the cupboard was bare and figured I might as well jump in. The only one that makes zero sense is Marsh. Given his level of interest from other schools, seems like he maybe thinks he is more deserving of more PT than he would get here.

Based on the fact that Kerns is still the coach and the mass exodus didn’t spawn a change at the top, I am pretty confident in saying that there was anything underlying within the program.

Brown I get but do wonder why he came here to begin with. I figured he likely felt he needed to get away from his home area for reasons but if not then I wonder what changed.

It is interesting you suggest that with Mantis because he played every game. If I had a liability on my roster I would sit them. Marsh or someone else should have gotten those minutes. I know they are different players but I would never put a liability on the floor if I had others who could play. Marsh could hit 3s better than Mantis if had got the playing time.

Harcum made a quick move instead of sitting back and being patient. I thought Marsh would start next year or play a lot more. Strothers baffled me as well.

Strothers to Hampton U.

Marsh should have gotten some of Mantis and Brown minutes all year. A 7 man rotation with a splash of Brown and Mantis.

Strothers going home,

[appgrad95&97]

Simple question to the group. If you or your child were in a similar situation would you advise them to stay or go? And when I say situation, take out your love for App and think about in terms of your kid, who doesn’t have that same love or devotion. I’m not saying that these are sound decisions, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know the personal motivations and without that information, are we in a position judge?

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We actually seem to be on the same page about something. Might we further agree that the head coach is the one to make that case to the group? Now I am as pro Kerns as one can be (maybe Brittany has me beat on that one). I don't get how all this fell apart as it seems to have if Kerns felt like he was going to be around. Obviously, I know nothing. But this seems odd.

[AppSt94]

Simple question to the group. If you or your child were in a similar situation would you advise them to stay or go? And when I say situation, take out your love for App and think about in terms of your kid, who doesn’t have that same love or devotion. I’m not saying that these are sound decisions, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know the personal motivations and without that information, are we in a position judge?

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We actually seem to be on the same page about something. Might we further agree that the head coach is the one to make that case to the group? Now I am as pro Kerns as one can be (maybe Brittany has me beat on that one). I don't get how all this fell apart as it seems to have if Kerns felt like he was going to be around. Obviously, I know nothing. But this seems odd.

Kerns would be the only one that could sell what you are pushing. I’ve heard rumors of how it unraveled but I can’t verify them. I think that it was a combination of events that could have just morphed into a perfect storm. Without getting into specifics, a couple of them need the money, one was an academic casualty and two of them wanted playing time. One needed to get closer to home. It just seemed to snowball. But the portal takes, the portal gives. We shall see.

[AZAppGrad]

My primary regret is that we should have given Marsh more minutes. He is a difference maker.

[PhillyApp1]

Simple question to the group. If you or your child were in a similar situation would you advise them to stay or go? And when I say situation, take out your love for App and think about in terms of your kid, who doesn’t have that same love or devotion. I’m not saying that these are sound decisions, I’m just pointing out that we don’t know the personal motivations and without that information, are we in a position judge?

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We actually seem to be on the same page about something. Might we further agree that the head coach is the one to make that case to the group? Now I am as pro Kerns as one can be (maybe Brittany has me beat on that one). I don't get how all this fell apart as it seems to have if Kerns felt like he was going to be around. Obviously, I know nothing. But this seems odd.

Kerns would be the only one that could sell what you are pushing. I’ve heard rumors of how it unraveled but I can’t verify them. I think that it was a combination of events that could have just morphed into a perfect storm. Without getting into specifics, a couple of them need the money, one was an academic casualty and two of them wanted playing time. One needed to get closer to home. It just seemed to snowball. But the portal takes, the portal gives. We shall see.

Spot on
I was upset when it happened.
I knew something was wrong during Wake game.
But, we are no different than atleast 50 other teams.... its all new... it sucks

I blame the SEC
Remember the Alamo.... well maybe not, they got slaughtered... I guess we are also.
I have turned to pity for the AD'S and coaches
The kids have made their bed and many of them will make a little money, probably blow it and scratch their head in a year.

[AppStFan1]

That's a really good question and really well put. My answer is stay. Here's why, none of these guys is going to the NBA, it doesn't matter if they transfer to Carolina, or Duke, or Kentucky, or UCLA. Second, I think I missed two home games so I saw them a lot. They really seemed to enjoy playing with each other. They looked like they had fun. NC State is not loaded with NBA talent, but look like they have fun together. Third, if this team had stayed together, they could have been really good. This year they were getting votes. Next year's team could have scheduled good power road games and made easy work of the Sun Belt. At the end of the day getting to do something amazing with a group I liked, would have kept me in Boone.

I don’t disagree. While I understand your reasonings, they really seem like they would be better presented to the group as a whole versus making that argument to each individual persons needs and desires. I can’t say that your assessment of each individual’s talent is incorrect, they are likely to approach that from a position of which opportunity gives me the best chance to beat the odds. Your State example is a good one for a few reasons. They are successful as a group because they play well together, but many players at the mid tier level will look at DJ Burns and see that his play at State opened a door that was likely closed or slightly ajar when he played at Winthrop. So while the odds are never in your favor, they look better when playing better competition on a nightly basis.

To your point on staying because this team could be good, you aren’t wrong but once one leaves, the dominos to that rationale fall apart. Like you, if it were my decision, or my son’s decision, it’s a bit different because I am fortunate that I don’t need the NIL money to survive or to attend games. Not all kids are blessed to be in a situation like the Aguilar’s that they can make all of his games.

Appreciate the response.

We actually seem to be on the same page about something. Might we further agree that the head coach is the one to make that case to the group? Now I am as pro Kerns as one can be (maybe Brittany has me beat on that one). I don't get how all this fell apart as it seems to have if Kerns felt like he was going to be around. Obviously, I know nothing. But this seems odd.

Kerns would be the only one that could sell what you are pushing. I’ve heard rumors of how it unraveled but I can’t verify them. I think that it was a combination of events that could have just morphed into a perfect storm. Without getting into specifics, a couple of them need the money, one was an academic casualty and two of them wanted playing time. One needed to get closer to home. It just seemed to snowball. But the portal takes, the portal gives. We shall see.

Spot on
I was upset when it happened.
I knew something was wrong during Wake game.
But, we are no different than atleast 50 other teams.... its all new... it sucks

I blame the SEC
Remember the Alamo.... well maybe not, they got slaughtered... I guess we are also.
I have turned to pity for the AD'S and coaches
The kids have made their bed and many of them will make a little money, probably blow it and scratch their head in a year.

I think you are right. Most of these players are using a school like us to help them get to a power program and make money. I am going to celebrate and appreciate those who stay but otherwise they are using us for that and we use them to win. Until there are rules I just look at this system as a way we don't have to wait 3 years or more to develop a team after a bad year and if we have a great year we just have to assemble a new team again.

[appdaze]

So, the labor use a company to get work experience on their resume so they can jump to a company that pays more but wants them to have work experience. Hmmmm. Some companies can pay workers more than others for the same jobs. The companies use the labor to "win" profits for their investors. I know y'all are having a meltdown and refuse to see this as what it is....a labor market....but it is, and pretending it's anything other than that is just silly at this point. Accept it for what it is and decide whether or not you want to like it or hate it, but stop pretending it's something it's not. Athletes should have been under contract by the time the 1980s rolled around and college sports really started to make money. The market would have already sorted itself out, and schools at all levels would have already adjusted, and we would all be cheering on our teams. Instead, the billionaire/millionaire powers that be hung onto the BS concept of an amateur athlete for decades longer. They sold the farce well, and many fans still believe in it.

It will take a good decade for this to work itself out, but it will. It has one of two pathways to take. The players become contracted workers for the school or sports fully separate from the schools, and the schools and the teams create licensing contracts with each other to use their name and likeness to keep the connections, logos, etc going. I think the latter will eventually happen with football and basketball.

You had the luck of going to a small regional school instead of an SEC team.

Love it or hate it, here we are.

[asu66]

Well, like most of you, I've poured over & over this and other threads for just over a week now and I remain in disbelief at the damage that has been and/or will have been done by the time every truth becomes known.

Like you, I have a long list of unanswered questions (I'll spare you all of that fine print text). I'll share my overriding question and concern. What in the H*** are we waiting on?

If, as some believe, Kerns is getting a major salary and benefits package upgrade then why hasn't it been announced? What in the H*** are we waiting on?

If, as others believe, Kerns is making moving arrangements then why hasn't it been announced by his new institution or leaked to X.com? What in the H*** are they waiting on?

The biggest reason I can muster is the world's largest basketball gossip party aka, NABC Convention to begin later this week in Phoenix. A lot of HR decisions/deals will get hashed out in lux hotel suites by the time the Final Four box scores hit the 'net. Sadly, I believe we're at least a week + away from many answers. Many of the deal makers will be out-of-pocket for at least the next seven to ten days. Some deals are still just notes in assorted AD smartphones.

It's hurry up and wait time for App State advocates!

Regarding our roster, researchers say that fewer than 45% of portal dwelling players get offers of any sort. To give those kids hope, the rules permit them to remove their names at any time. I believe some of our players will come home in weeks to come with a real world perspective on how lucky they are to be Mountaineers. If/when that happens, they have to talk their way back into roster consideration if we have any scholarships remaining...or if we have a head coach by then.

[AppStFan1]

So, the labor use a company to get work experience on their resume so they can jump to a company that pays more but wants them to have work experience. Hmmmm. Some companies can pay workers more than others for the same jobs. The companies use the labor to "win" profits for their investors. I know y'all are having a meltdown and refuse to see this as what it is....a labor market....but it is, and pretending it's anything other than that is just silly at this point. Accept it for what it is and decide whether or not you want to like it or hate it, but stop pretending it's something it's not. Athletes should have been under contract by the time the 1980s rolled around and college sports really started to make money. The market would have already sorted itself out, and schools at all levels would have already adjusted, and we would all be cheering on our teams. Instead, the billionaire/millionaire powers that be hung onto the BS concept of an amateur athlete for decades longer. They sold the farce well, and many fans still believe in it.

It will take a good decade for this to work itself out, but it will. It has one of two pathways to take. The players become contracted workers for the school or sports fully separate from the schools, and the schools and the teams create licensing contracts with each other to use their name and likeness to keep the connections, logos, etc going. I think the latter will eventually happen with football and basketball.

You had the luck of going to a small regional school instead of an SEC team.

Love it or hate it, here we are.

It is definitely a labor market and I said what I did for people to realize that it is how it is. They are using us and we have to use them hoping we can win with the ones we get. Some have said they try to show love to our players and their families after games hoping they feel appreciated but I hope they are doing it just to be nice and not hoping it keeps them. Money or being in the best situation they think they can be in is what will keep them here.

I think what you said with the two ways it can go is right as well. My question is if football and basketball break away from the school then how many other sports will go under due to Title IX?

[AppStFan1]

Well, like most of you, I've poured over & over this and other threads for just over a week now and I remain in disbelief at the damage that has beanden and/or will have been done by the time every truth becomes known.

Like you, I have a long list of unanswered questions (I'll spare you all of that fine print text). I'll share my overriding question andtwitter concern. What in the H*** are we waiting on?

If, as some believe, Kerns is getting a major salary and benefits package upgrade then why hasn't it been announced? What in the H*** are we waiting on?

If, as others believe, Kerns is making moving arrangements then why hasn't it been announced by his new institution or leaked to X.com? What in the H*** are they waiting on?

The biggest reason I can muster is the world's largest basketball gossip party aka, NABC Convention to begin later this week in Phoenix. A lot of HR decisions/deals will get hashed out in lux hotel suites by the time the Final Four box scores hit the 'net. Sadly, I believe we're at least a week + away from many answers. Many of the deal makers will be out-of-pocket for at least the next seven to ten days. Some deals are still just notes in assorted AD smartphones.

It's hurry up and wait time for App State advocates!

Regarding our roster, researchers say that fewer than 45% of portal dwelling players get offers of any sort. To give those kids hope, the rules permit them to remove their names at any time. I believe some of our players will come home in weeks to come with a real world perspective on how lucky they are to be Mountaineers. If/when that happens, they have to talk their way back into roster consideration if we have any scholarships remaining...of if we have a head coach by then.

This is just a guess here but I think we have to get some answers on new deal for Kerns and on players coming back from portal before signing day. I am guessing we hear something by the end of next week at the latest.

[AppSt94]

We will have a team and a coach when the season starts next year. What that looks like no one knows right now. If the coach is Kerns, and I have nothing to tell you otherwise, then he will get a team together. Take a breathe. All will be fine. Kerns is the coach as of today and there isn’t any reason to think that he won’t be. Patience my man.

[T-Dog]

You can write Hell. I don't think y'alls work filters will flag that.

[asu66]

You can write Hell. I don't think y'alls work filters will flag that.

For me it's kind of--situational. I've been retired for =gulp= 25 years and now I'm seriously visually impaired. My wife is my proofreader and as such she gets the last shot.

[Saint3333]

Good to hear from you 66!

[appvette]

So, the labor use a company to get work experience on their resume so they can jump to a company that pays more but wants them to have work experience. Hmmmm. Some companies can pay workers more than others for the same jobs. The companies use the labor to "win" profits for their investors. I know y'all are having a meltdown and refuse to see this as what it is....a labor market....but it is, and pretending it's anything other than that is just silly at this point. Accept it for what it is and decide whether or not you want to like it or hate it, but stop pretending it's something it's not. Athletes should have been under contract by the time the 1980s rolled around and college sports really started to make money. The market would have already sorted itself out, and schools at all levels would have already adjusted, and we would all be cheering on our teams. Instead, the billionaire/millionaire powers that be hung onto the BS concept of an amateur athlete for decades longer. They sold the farce well, and many fans still believe in it.

It will take a good decade for this to work itself out, but it will. It has one of two pathways to take. The players become contracted workers for the school or sports fully separate from the schools, and the schools and the teams create licensing contracts with each other to use their name and likeness to keep the connections, logos, etc going. I think the latter will eventually happen with football and basketball.

You had the luck of going to a small regional school instead of an SEC team.

Love it or hate it, here we are.

It might be a labor market, but it's not a laissez-faire free market. You have institutions trying to attract labor, but the funds used to pay for it comes from student fees that are mandatory, funded by government backed, subsided loans. The money also comes from donations and tax money (but not at every place). And the labor is also required to do another unpaid job (school) and meet academic standards but those standards are different for each place. And each laborer is only allowed to "work" for about 5 years. So, it is a clunky hybrid of a market that is like no other. We can't just pretend that this is like Microsoft and Apple bidding for the best software engineers.

[T-Dog]

You can write Hell. I don't think y'alls work filters will flag that.

For me it's kind of--situational. I've been retired for =gulp= 25 years and now I'm seriously visually impaired. My wife is my proofreader and as such she gets the last shot.

Understood.