The cancer on this program is

[appdaze]

That’s your opinion but I believe the students should be funding a good portion, especially when we know damn well a small mountain town isn’t going to draw massive brand exposure like a university in a major city. Asking alumni to ALWAYS fund everything is crazier. I don’t understand why more alumni don’t donate but that’s not likely to change without a creative campaign so make the kids put up $2,000 year (they pay $783 now but it should be even higher if they’re from out of state) It’s only 4 years of that compared to a lifetime of relying on alumni for everything.

There is a lot of that in this country. You want someone else to pay for your entertainment. Well MY opinion is that those who want that entertainmentn should pay. Why should someone who has no interest in sports or football in particular be bound to pay for our entertainment.

Because it’s your duty as a student to help fund athletics (I don’t mean NIL payments to players) and the school as a whole. Most students are only there because of the notoriety the school received because of football wins. It improved everything from new buildings and better students. Personally, I’d rather the school use funds elsewhere but they’re not taking endowment dollars to improve athletics, so the students should fall in line next. Alumni SHOULD donate more but that’s another discussion.

A student has no "duty" lol...they aren't a solider. Yes athletic success has increased the University's notoriety but it's not the responsibility of the student to fund something that is arguably superfluous.

If you're watching the games and on this blog you're invested personally in the success of the program. Why wouldn't you put your money where you mouth is to see it succeed? If you don't then what right do you have to complain?

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

[pop5app]

To the original question there really is NO cancer on the program yet. We made the decision on a football coach that we had to make, all things considered at the time.it just turns out to be a hire that hasn’t worked out. Happens all the time. Shuddering the soccer program…well remember I said “yet”.

[Howard Street Hooligan]

There is a lot of that in this country. You want someone else to pay for your entertainment. Well MY opinion is that those who want that entertainmentn should pay. Why should someone who has no interest in sports or football in particular be bound to pay for our entertainment.

Because it’s your duty as a student to help fund athletics (I don’t mean NIL payments to players) and the school as a whole. Most students are only there because of the notoriety the school received because of football wins. It improved everything from new buildings and better students. Personally, I’d rather the school use funds elsewhere but they’re not taking endowment dollars to improve athletics, so the students should fall in line next. Alumni SHOULD donate more but that’s another discussion.

A student has no "duty" lol...they aren't a solider. Yes athletic success has increased the University's notoriety but it's not the responsibility of the student to fund something that is arguably superfluous.

If you're watching the games and on this blog you're invested personally in the success of the program. Why wouldn't you put your money where you mouth is to see it succeed? If you don't then what right do you have to complain?

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

15% increase sounds like a lot but it’s not really in the big picture compared to everything else you’re paying. Should tuition be as high as it is? Why is that allowed to increase but student athletic fees can’t? It’s an idea and way to compete financially rather than going around begging the same big money donors year after year. Athletic success helps the University and there’s no denying it. Sorry, but it should happen.

[appdaze]

Because it’s your duty as a student to help fund athletics (I don’t mean NIL payments to players) and the school as a whole. Most students are only there because of the notoriety the school received because of football wins. It improved everything from new buildings and better students. Personally, I’d rather the school use funds elsewhere but they’re not taking endowment dollars to improve athletics, so the students should fall in line next. Alumni SHOULD donate more but that’s another discussion.

A student has no "duty" lol...they aren't a solider. Yes athletic success has increased the University's notoriety but it's not the responsibility of the student to fund something that is arguably superfluous.

If you're watching the games and on this blog you're invested personally in the success of the program. Why wouldn't you put your money where you mouth is to see it succeed? If you don't then what right do you have to complain?

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

It is a small percentage change compared to everything else you’re paying. It’s an idea and way to compete financially rather than going around begging the same big money donors year after year. Athletic success helps the University and there’s no denying it. Sorry, but it should happen.

Sorry, but it shouldn't. Again, its insanely sad that some care more about football than making higher education more accessible so that people of all socioeconomic backgrounds have access, whether used or not, to higher education. If football is that much more important than football needs to separate and be a professional minor league. you mentioned thousands a year. That is not a small percentage and means a lot to a lot of people. Being so privileged that you can look down on thousands of dollars and just demand others pay must be nice. I truly hope our university will always value academics and students more than be blood sucking leeches taking every last dollar they can from students.

[appgrad95&97]

Because it’s your duty as a student to help fund athletics (I don’t mean NIL payments to players) and the school as a whole. Most students are only there because of the notoriety the school received because of football wins. It improved everything from new buildings and better students. Personally, I’d rather the school use funds elsewhere but they’re not taking endowment dollars to improve athletics, so the students should fall in line next. Alumni SHOULD donate more but that’s another discussion.

A student has no "duty" lol...they aren't a solider. Yes athletic success has increased the University's notoriety but it's not the responsibility of the student to fund something that is arguably superfluous.

If you're watching the games and on this blog you're invested personally in the success of the program. Why wouldn't you put your money where you mouth is to see it succeed? If you don't then what right do you have to complain?

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

15% increase sounds like a lot but it’s not really in the big picture compared to everything else you’re paying. Should tuition be as high as it is? Why is that allowed to increase but student athletic fees can’t? It’s an idea and way to compete financially rather than going around begging the same big money donors year after year. Athletic success helps the University and there’s no denying it. Sorry, but it should happen.

I hope you increase your giving by 15%. It's not that much in the big picture compared to everything else.

[Bootsy]

It takes money to make money. And we don't have it.

App has the most valuable brand in the Sun Belt by $30 million. Apparently App’s football brand value is $125 million and the next closest is Marshall at $80 million.

App either needs to leverage that in the Sun Belt or needs to leave the Sun Belt and see if the AAC is a possibility, while arguing for a full share in pay.

I can also tell you that South Alabama and Marshall are not paying more money than App State is. NIL existed in 2022 when Notre Dame and Texas A&M fell. It exists this year where Vanderbilt took Missouri to OT and just beat Alabama.


The issue isn’t money. The issue right now, as far as I can tell, is a confluence of issues with injuries and head coaching deficiencies.

I am all in favor of bringing in Tre Lamb or seeing what Ponce could do leading a program. Someone argued that “we don’t need someone learning on the job” in regards to Tre Lamb but that is exactly what Satterfield, Drinkwitz, and Clark have done. Lamb would be the first head coach with actual Head Coaching experience that App has brought in since the 80’s.


Football is changing and App, predictably, has not really evolved beyond what was going on in 2018. The defense is the same, the offensive scheme is more of an air raid but it is very straight forward. Sloan has continued the slide we saw under Dale Jones and it has hit rock bottom now. The worst since what, 2002?

Time to see if you can go after someone who has been successful everywhere they have been.

How is " brand value" determined?

I would assume it is the valuation determined by viewership, marketing, sales, etc. Look at game viewership when App is on linear, look at attendance, look at licensable merchandise sales, etc.

Someone on the Sun Belt board posted these numbers and there are at least three people with close ties to programs, including one play by play guy, who posts there I believe. He is very in tune with the media landscape, payouts, etc.

Regardless, if those numbers are accurate, it isn't exactly a nothingburger that programs like ULM, USA, Troy, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, and Coastal get the same media share as App does. Boise pushed for a larger share of their conference revenue because they were a cash cow for the conference.

Now the Sun Belt would be fine without App, but what would the perception be if App, JMU, and Marshall left? Personally, I feel like App, JMU, Marshall, and Louisiana would be ideal revenue enhancements for the AAC, particularly if you could get full shares of revenue and not a fraction like the new AAC programs took.

App has, in effect, taken a moribund conference in 2013, and along with Georgia Southern initially, Coastal for a couple years, and JMU now, lifted the perception and national performance through competition alone. Yet instead of cementing that status, the leadership has sat idly by and done nothing, demanded nothing, and explored nothing.

The "aw shucks" faction of this university kills me. "We're just little ol' App State". Well, "Little ol' App State's" football program is worth more than the combined brand value of every other Sun Belt programs revenue producing sports. This is why the AAC came knocking the last go round, and App said no, we won't up our budget. I'm guessing the AAC asked App to take a partial share in revenue payouts but that could have been a point of negotiation. If it's really about money, then the leadership of the program needs to take it's leverage and put it to use.

What I am hearing is we really don't know where the numbers come from or how we benifit from them. So we take them and come up with asumptions.

Yup, you nailed it...in one.

[JTApps1]

Gillin is the best AD we've ever had, and it's not even close. He isn't perfect but nobody ever will be.

[Howard Street Hooligan]

A student has no "duty" lol...they aren't a solider. Yes athletic success has increased the University's notoriety but it's not the responsibility of the student to fund something that is arguably superfluous.

If you're watching the games and on this blog you're invested personally in the success of the program. Why wouldn't you put your money where you mouth is to see it succeed? If you don't then what right do you have to complain?

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

15% increase sounds like a lot but it’s not really in the big picture compared to everything else you’re paying. Should tuition be as high as it is? Why is that allowed to increase but student athletic fees can’t? It’s an idea and way to compete financially rather than going around begging the same big money donors year after year. Athletic success helps the University and there’s no denying it. Sorry, but it should happen.

I hope you increase your giving by 15%. It's not that much in the big picture compared to everything else.

I’ve increased my giving for the last 15 years since I graduated. Students, alumni, the school, everyone should be chipping in. Agree to disagree but I don’t see it as a major deal to increase student fees to keep up with the Joneses.

[bcoach]

Again, the STUDENT should pay more than they’re currently paying but ALUMNI should as well. If you’re going to go to the school then sorry, a few thousand should go towards athletics a year. Our alumni don’t give money and I don’t see that changing dramatically anytime soon so students, it’s on you while
at school. Maybe it will encourage them to KEEP giving down the road. Idk. The school should invest more of its own dollars too.

I donate but we have very little fans compared to big schools so EVERYONE needs to chip in and that includes the students while they’re in school. Bump it up, DG.

Forcing this on students is absurd. College is already getting wildly expensive, and you want to demand more money from people for nonacademics. This type of mentality drives great students away who just want to go to a school for academics, not propping up a football team for entertainment. It's really sad how far this has all fallen. With this mindset, just go ahead and tell all poor and lower middle-class people to piss off and that college isn't for them, regardless of their abilities. Tell them that winning football games is more important than their ability to attend college because yes, a few thousand is a lot of money to a lot of people. That is not just some small pocket change you are demanding for football entertainment. Football just needs to fully separate from colleges and be done with it. Let universities get back to academics first and extracurriculars secondary to help create well-rounded people. If all anyone cares about is football then we just need to be done with it all and split them up for good.

15% increase sounds like a lot but it’s not really in the big picture compared to everything else you’re paying. Should tuition be as high as it is? Why is that allowed to increase but student athletic fees can’t? It’s an idea and way to compete financially rather than going around begging the same big money donors year after year. Athletic success helps the University and there’s no denying it. Sorry, but it should happen.

I hope you increase your giving by 15%. It's not that much in the big picture compared to everything else.

I’ve increased my giving for the last 15 years since I graduated. Students, alumni, the school, everyone should be chipping in. Agree to disagree but I don’t see it as a major deal to increase student fees to keep up with the Joneses.

You got us. I absolutly thought you were being serious. Well played.

[appgrad95&97]

Unfortunately, this is a serious question: if this was supposed to be "the year" how bad should I expect next year to be?

[Stonewall]

Looks like it will be a new start. If ULM can do it , we can.

[BallantyneApp]

Unfortunately, this is a serious question: if this was supposed to be "the year" how bad should I expect next year to be?

If we start over I have low expectations for 2025. To have a jmu/ulm 1st year would be great but I’d take a guy building us back for the medium haul too.

Losing to uncc is unacceptable but we’ll have a 1st year coach against a 3rd year one personally bankrolling the team.

[Saint3333]

Will come down to keeping 14, 90, 29, and other key players.

Must improve our line play.

[Yosefus]

Unfortunately, this is a serious question: if this was supposed to be "the year" how bad should I expect next year to be?

If we start over I have low expectations for 2025. To have a jmu/ulm 1st year would be great but I’d take a guy building us back for the medium haul too.

Losing to uncc is unacceptable but we’ll have a 1st year coach against a 3rd year one personally bankrolling the team.

I've got low expectations for next year already. Going to be a rough next 2-3 years. I hope it's not longer than that.

[pop5app]

I have decided to face reality. I do not see us being able to compete going forward. We just don’t have the money. Money buys speed as they say in NASCAR. We are already falling behind, as it appears , even our peers seem better at growing their donations. I say no more increase for activities fees.

[Mjohn1988]

I have decided to face reality. I do not see us being able to compete going forward. We just don’t have the money. Money buys speed as they say in NASCAR. We are already falling behind, as it appears , even our peers seem better at growing their donations. I say no more increase for activities fees.

Real question, cause I sure don’t know. How do you know peer universities are growing their donations? Since you talking about buying players I assume you’re talking about NIL money. Is there any reliable information out there about how much NIL money is going to players on each Sun Belt team?

[appgrad95&97]

Looks like it will be a new start. If ULM can do it , we can.

You can't compare us to ULM. Their tradition, their fan support, all their NIL money...

[pop5app]

I have decided to face reality. I do not see us being able to compete going forward. We just don’t have the money. Money buys speed as they say in NASCAR. We are already falling behind, as it appears , even our peers seem better at growing their donations. I say no more increase for activities fees.

Real question, cause I sure don’t know. How do you know peer universities are growing their donations? Since you talking about buying players I assume you’re talking about NIL money. Is there any reliable information out there about how much NIL money is going to players on each Sun Belt team?

Don’t have any factual evidence for our conference mates. But if we are not falling behind, even them, they’re in just as much peril as us . None of them shuddered major athletic programs as we did. I don’t believe Our alumni base contributes anything enough for us to stay competitive. Budget wise at last report we were mid-conference. I’m sure there are other reasons for my conclusion.

[Kafarmer]

1. Transfer Portal/NIL. The transfer portal equates to a group of players coming in that don’t have the same commitment to the tradition and culture that was instilled. For players in the Jerry Moore era and even Satterfield, it hurt to lose to GASO. Nowadays it’s just a loss. Hard to measure, but it’s part of the fact.
NIL is a different animal than we can imagine. Some of you have more insight on this than me. Does any of our guys have a better NIL deal than Joey? And joey’s biggest deals are the t shirts and Joey wings at RSAH. How does that even relate to whichever Texas school with a car dealership giving new trucks to the offensive line? That brings us to…..
2. Budget. When we were in FCS we were a big dog budget wise. Some schools were higher, but not many. Big fish, small pond. I haven’t seen the numbers in awhile, but JMU came into the Sun Belt with the highest athletic budget in the league. Much higher than us. We ranked down toward the middle. After moving to FBS, we overachieved. We did, no doubt, when considering everything. Yes, all of this is on the coaches to overcome. Any of you who think that’s an easy job don’t put enough thought into the process.
3. Expectations. With everything that’s been mentioned too many fans still expect the same results. I’m not advocating mediocrity, I’m just saying the job of coaching in college is not as easy as a majority of you think it is.

[Stonewall]

Not an easy job. Very well compensated. Few things are simple. We are in last place. It is as simple as that.