# of Clemson tickets sold?

[Gonzo]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

[hapapp]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

Perhaps, but until we start drawing the fans like we did several years ago, its hard to make the argument that we are hurting for additional seats. Hopefully, a successful season will necessitate the need sooner. I would like to see us approach 30,000 seats. As it is now, outside of Idaho, we have the smallest stadium in the SBC. And, by the time Coastal starts playing football in the SBC, they may pass us.

[AppDawg]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

Take a look at the seating chart and tickets available for homecoming. Its not isolated. The excuses I have heard are:

Labor day weekend
2 thursday night games
Saturday after Thanksgiving
Halloween (folks with young children and potentially missing tick-or-treating)

There is no such excuse for Homecoming. Its our only home game during the season that has no one of these things can't be pointed to. Further historically it hasn't mattered who our homecoming opponent is, it has ALWAYS been well attended. As of now, I have significant reservations the trend will hold true for '15 - barring an incredible showing at Clemson.

[NewApp]

ya, if we get 17,000 for the Howard game, that would be a success.

And that is sad. If it has come to 17,000 being viewed as a success for a home game, we have no business in FBS. Especially when last I heard we average approximately 9,000 students per game. 17,000 should be viewed as an embarrassment, shameful and an utter failure.

I somewhat agree, but I have confidence things will improve vastly in the future, at least sporadically.

[NewApp]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

I disagree, Gonz, but am not interested in a urinating contest with you. I say make the demand exceed the capacity and expand then and only then.

[moehler]

as far as expansion of the stadium debate, we are in a dam if we do, dam if we don't situation,, on one hand its become clear a large group of fans aren't interested in attending games, unless we have a worthy, maybe even nationally recognized program come to Boone, on the other hand these programs are not going to consistently travel up the mountain if they are playing in a 24,000 seat stadium, ya, we got lucky and got Wake and Marshall to make the trip, but don't count on it becoming the norm until we expand. So, in my opinion we must make a "leap of faith" and expand the stadium, even though there isn't a demand for it. As stated before, I cant believe we are going to probably end up with the smallest stadium in the SBC, in probably less than 5 years, that just cant happen.

[EastHallApp]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

Take a look at the seating chart and tickets available for homecoming. Its not isolated. The excuses I have heard are:

Labor day weekend
2 thursday night games
Saturday after Thanksgiving
Halloween (folks with young children and potentially missing tick-or-treating)

There is no such excuse for Homecoming. Its our only home game during the season that has no one of these things can't be pointed to. Further historically it hasn't mattered who our homecoming opponent is, it has ALWAYS been well attended. As of now, I have significant reservations the trend will hold true for '15 - barring an incredible showing at Clemson.

Definitely not isolated. When was the last time we DID pack the Rock? It's becoming the exception to the rule.

The typical excuses:

- The weather is bad.
- The opponent is bad.
- App is bad.
- App is good, but they started the season bad, and students haven't noticed that they're good now.
- It's Thursday night.
- It's Thanksgiving weekend.
- It's on TV.


None of those things (other than App being bad) are rarities. If you write off all the games where any of those things applies, how many are left? You can only have so many 3:30 Saturday kickoffs against Georgia Southern with clear skies and 70 degree temps.

Obviously it will help if the team starts winning consistently, but how much? Expansion advocates said the stronger home schedule this year would translate to better sales. Hasn't happened. They assume winning Sun Belt titles will draw the same crowds or larger as winning FCS titles and beating Michigan, but until we see it happen, it's just a guess.

In short (I know, too late) - we need to see the demand before we pay to increase supply.

[NewApp]

as far as expansion of the stadium debate, we are in a dam if we do, dam if we don't situation,, on one hand its become clear a large group of fans aren't interested in attending games, unless we have a worthy, maybe even nationally recognized program come to Boone, on the other hand these programs are not going to consistently travel up the mountain if they are playing in a 24,000 seat stadium, ya, we got lucky and got Wake and Marshall to make the trip, but don't count on it becoming the norm until we expand. So, in my opinion we must make a "leap of faith" and expand the stadium, even though there isn't a demand for it. As stated before, I cant believe we are going to probably end up with the smallest stadium in the SBC, in probably less than 5 years, that just cant happen.

Totally agree with Wake, but Marshall seemed to be just waiting on us to move to the "bigs," We have such a history with them to warrant that.

[Gonzo]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

[roachgone]

Don't really care who opponent is first game although if we are gonna play an FCS for a tune up it probably ought to be a local or socon school. Just to have some degree of knowing something about who we are playing. Elon, A&T, Western, Furman ??

[AppDawg]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

Coastal needs to increase to at least 15,000 per FBS minimums. Although it can be debated how often that's enforced.

[TheMoody1]

Don't really care who opponent is first game although if we are gonna play an FCS for a tune up it probably ought to be a local or socon school. Just to have some degree of knowing something about who we are playing. Elon, A&T, Western, Furman ??

The problem is Elon opens with Wake Forest, A&T opens with the Tarholes, Can'ts open with Tennessee, and Furman opens with VT. By the time the BCS boys load up with patsies App is left with Howard.

[moehler]

I get what you guys are saying, and in the normal business world, using the supply and demand equation makes perfect sense, but unfortunately, collage football plays by different rules. It basically says that if your program is perceived to be stagnant, and not growing, and your competition, in our case, the other SBC schools, and other regional schools such as Charlotte, continue to show a willingness to grow, and improve their programs, it will have a negative effect on both recruits and more importantly the fan base, who fund the program. Now, I'm not saying we go out and mortgage the future, I'm sure with a little planning there is a way to continue to grow the program in a fiscally sound manner, and there no guarantee expansion will work, but there is one guarantee you can count on, if we sit on our hands, and do nothing for the next 5 or 6 years, and we simply watch all our competitors pass us by, you can pretty much count on us going back to the good old days of playing in from of 12-14 thousand fans.

[appst89]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

They have 9200 seats; not quite the same argument.

[Saint3333]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

Two things. Unfortunately this can no longer be termed isolated. Second this isn't a court of law, this is business. The burden of proof will be on the side that wants to expand.

Until evidence suggests we should expand my take of this subject will not change.

It is opening weekend and half of the east side seats are unsold two days before the game. I've said we need to break the 10k season ticket mark to expand, but the single game sales are even down. Im sure you will come up with half a dozen excuses, but that is all they will be. We need results.

I hope I feel the need to sign on here on Sunday and eat crow, I truly do.

They'll be 17 in my crew, looking forward to the game.

[APPdiesel]

As it is now, outside of Idaho, we have the smallest stadium in the SBC. By the time Coastal starts playing football in the SBC, they may pass us.

Official seating capacity =/= actual capacity.

[Saint3333]

I get what you guys are saying, and in the normal business world, using the supply and demand equation makes perfect sense, but unfortunately, collage football plays by different rules. It basically says that if your program is perceived to be stagnant, and not growing, and your competition, in our case, the other SBC schools, and other regional schools such as Charlotte, continue to show a willingness to grow, and improve their programs, it will have a negative effect on both recruits and more importantly the fan base, who fund the program. Now, I'm not saying we go out and mortgage the future, I'm sure with a little planning there is a way to continue to grow the program in a fiscally sound manner, and there no guarantee expansion will work, but there is one guarantee you can count on, if we sit on our hands, and do nothing for the next 5 or 6 years, and we simply watch all our competitors pass us by, you can pretty much count on us going back to the good old days of playing in from of 12-14 thousand fans.

UNCC just got another large donation to help pay for it. I'm all for expansion if done right, but there must be funds to pay for it. That either comes from donation or ticket sales, thus my desire to wait for demand from season ticket sales. Some here act like we have the cash to expand, currently we don't. I know Doug is working on that.

[APPdiesel]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

Coastal needs to increase to at least 15,000 per FBS minimums. Although it can be debated how often that's enforced.

The 15,000 rule only applies to bowl eligibility - not FBS status. Typically the teams who can't draw 15,000 aren't winning enough games to be bowl eligible anyway...so it's kind of a moot point.

[asucrutch23]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

Coastal needs to increase to at least 15,000 per FBS minimums. Although it can be debated how often that's enforced.

The 15,000 rule only applies to bowl eligibility - not FBS status. Typically the teams who can't draw 15,000 aren't winning enough games to be bowl eligible anyway...so it's kind of a moot point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/23/sport ... ating.html

"The rule requires teams to average 15,000 fans per home game. Any program that does not could have its Division I-A status challenged by the National Collegiate Athletic Association, and could be relegated to a lower level -- in all sports, not just football."

The thing about it is it only has to be met once in every 2 year rolling period and schools can use the "Actual Attendance Method" OR the "Paid Attendance Method." Very easy to get around.

[nomadb]

When we start winning again and some hype returns, the butts in the seats will return. It's as simple as that.

That being said, we can't wait until that happens to expand. You don't take a project like that on at the drop of a hat and we are likely to have high attendance years and lower attendance years along the way.