Interesting Talk

[App74]

Let's assume he's right: God is a myth, the Bible is fiction. Therefore, one dies and simply turns to dust. There exists no other possibility.

Let's assume he's wrong: God is real, the Bible is His direction for living one's life. Therefore, one dies and either goes to Heaven or hell. There exists no other possibilities.

The decision is yours.

What is God is real but the Bible is a made up story. God is offended that you would accept that so in God's anger you are sent to Hell for believing in the wrong books. Is that a possibility?

Or God is real but as long as you live a life of being good to each other then God is not going to be to specific on creed. Is that a possibility?

1. What is God is real but the Bible is a made up story. God is offended that you would accept that so in God's anger you are sent to Hell for believing in the wrong books. Is that a possibility?

Since the Bible is "God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:15-17).....no, it is not a possibility.

2. Or God is real but as long as you live a life of being good to each other then God is not going to be to specific on creed. Is that a possibility?

I don't know what "specific on creed" means. But being good to one another is a great starting point for a person to live a life in which God would find favor.

[StumpyCulbreath]

Some of this is directed at the little Amos n Andy fellow. Faith is a rationalization made generally by people who can’t imagine a world without themselves in it. It’s a survival mechanism for those who cannot accept the reality of a biological life. It is easy to be compliant and maintain the beliefs that one most likely accepted before he or she was of an age to question them. It’s easy because most everyone around you accepts them. Christianity spread because the Romans discovered that it was a great tool for assuring compliance among conquered people.
What is difficult and what takes courage is admitting that everyone, including your parents and friends could be wrong and to still strive to live a life of purpose and service, one in which you actually take responsibility for your actions and one in which you attempt to live in the moment.
Believe me, I went to Sunday School, and I probably know Christian theology as well as one could short of studying for a Divinity degree. And the Christian church would interest me if it had anything at all to do with what is in the gospels. This would be a very different country if “Christians” gave away what they had and spent their time trying to emulate the actions of the protagonist of that narrative. Jerry Falwell Jr. and Liberty are the money changers in the temple. Most of the organized church is a mockery of what was intended by the historical Jesus. He had no plans for buildings and hierarchies and endless rituals.
I realize I am wasting my time by speaking truthfully here, but so be it.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Let's assume he's right: God is a myth, the Bible is fiction. Therefore, one dies and simply turns to dust. There exists no other possibility.

Let's assume he's wrong: God is real, the Bible is His direction for living one's life. Therefore, one dies and either goes to Heaven or hell. There exists no other possibilities.

The decision is yours.

What is God is real but the Bible is a made up story. God is offended that you would accept that so in God's anger you are sent to Hell for believing in the wrong books. Is that a possibility?

Or God is real but as long as you live a life of being good to each other then God is not going to be to specific on creed. Is that a possibility?

Had you attended Sunday School when you were little you would have a much clearer understanding of the Christian perspective. The way to heaven - in the eyes of Christians - is very simple. John 3:16 is all you need to read. Peace.

I went to Sunday School in my younger years, in fact I am still a member of a Lutheran Church. I don't think I have said anything that said I was an atheist. I DON"T take the Bible literally, the creation story is an allegory. Actually we should say creation stories as there are two stories of creation in Genesis. I am not a believer in a God that really gets active in everyday events. I don't have a problem with a moment of creation for the universe some 13+ Billion years ago and then it's been hands off since then. I don't think that would prevent a God from also setting in place the laws of science that also includes evolution. The problem is that I can not test and prove through evidence that creation did happen. We can do experiments and look at evidence that could lead us to explain how the universe was formed and that explanation may not need a moment of creation. That is science. Maybe a God covered his tracks, maybe there was not a creation, maybe there was a creation and the evidence was lost in a previous big bang/big crunch that has happened many times over and we are just in one of many bang/crunch events where all evidence of previous cycles are lost to us at least at present. It may have been pure luck that we are here to debate this topic.

[asu1978]

Darwinism-order from disorder,on it's own,no help an infinite number of times.How often do you see that? Or do you see the order provided by an infinite being(God),no beginning or no end.

[WataugaMan]

im smart ass number 1 and ill never lose that ranking

Pardon me but I do believe I carry that distinction, just ask my wife and the people I work with.

[1ASU78]

From Wikipedia
Coyne is an atheist. He claims that religion and science are incompatible, that only rational evaluation of evidence is capable of reliably discovering the world and the way it works, and that scientists who hold religious views are only reflective of the idea "that people can hold two conflicting notions in their heads at the same time". He has argued that the incompatibility of science and faith is based on irreconcilable differences in methodology, philosophy, and outcomes when they try to discern truths about the universe.

Coyne is a critic of creationism[4] including theistic evolution[5][6] and intelligent design, which he calls "the latest pseudoscientific incarnation of religious creationism, cleverly crafted by a new group of enthusiasts to circumvent recent legal restrictions."[7]

seems he has been working on it since 1971 and still hasn't proven it yet......... But its true.

What a shock! An atheist who has not been able to produce any evidence to support his theory.

Regardless on which side of the argument you are on the burden of proof is not on atheists, it is on religious folk. Religions are the ones claiming that something exists therefore they are the ones that need to show the proof.

Just as other religions have come and gone over history the ones around now will fade in the future and I'm sure others will pop up and take over. 2000 years from now people will look on our religions as mythology the same way we look on those of the ancient world and the cycle continues.

Isn't that for the atheist to prove that something does not exist ? Because you cant see something does that mean it doesn't exist? I can't see the Rock right now but I know its there. Thankfully Ive never seen satan but evil does exist and No I haven't seen God either. But in my life this is what I know. The Lord is my Rock, my fortress, and my savior. My God is my Rock in whom I find protection. I think a tremendous amount of time is wasted on trying to prove evolution, creation is how it happened, sprinkle or immersion baptism, how old the earth is and the list goes on. Its not my job to prove one way or the other. My job is totally different. Im not a pastor, not a theologian, not an evangelist. I don't have a testimony of being reborn after finding myself at the bottom of the barrel. But I know what has happened in my life and I know I'm not alone or forgotten and no matter who you are there is room at the Cross. You read what I'm not, what I am is a brother in Christ (not an expert) and will do my very best to help anyone with questions about Christ. Not about religion, not about the church about Christ. So if that sounds like an alter call I guess it is....................so let me know.

Believe what you want but to answer your question, no the burden of proof does not lie with atheists. Your example is weak; we know The Rock is there. We've seen it, there are pictures, etc etc. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

you missed the point its not about the example, Too much is wasted on this when the bigger more important is left out.

[97grad]

you missed the point its not about the example, Too much is wasted on this when the bigger more important is left out.

Yes I guess I did. Believe what you will. I have no problem with faith, since faith is the acknowledgement that you are believing without evidence. Some of us will require the evidence before we believe. It doesn't mean we're bad people, quite the contrary in my opinion since we try to do the best we can expecting no reward nor fearing any reprisal.

[1ASU78]

you missed the point its not about the example, Too much is wasted on this when the bigger more important is left out.

Yes I guess I did. Believe what you will. I have no problem with faith, since faith is the acknowledgement that you are believing without evidence. Some of us will require the evidence before we believe. It doesn't mean we're bad people, quite the contrary in my opinion since we try to do the best we can expecting no reward nor fearing any reprisal.

"nothing from nothing leaves nothing but you gotta have something if you want to with me" (not me personally) just a little faith for an eternity. Lots of good people do not believe in the way, doesn't make them bad at all. That just means there are lots of opportunities for introductions.

[ASUMountaineer]

lemme see if i can get my head around this...we're on a asu page talkin about all things app and we're fighting about god...a god, your god, not my god, by god......seriously???? flame me(whatever that means), kick me out of here... censure me...whatever but this site has become nothing but negative bitching and stupid folks arguing for the simple fact that they dont own a mirror to argue with themselves...this site sometimes sucks. look...my political philosophies arent gonna change and i aint changing yours so why argue...why be such pains in the asses simply because you can. im smart ass number 1 and ill never lose that ranking but its pretty sad when even i hate coming here because people want to complain simply to complain. in the words of john candy....lighten up francis!

I'm here to give you some competition, brother!

Excellent post.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

lemme see if i can get my head around this...we're on a asu page talkin about all things app and we're fighting about god...a god, your god, not my god, by god......seriously???? flame me(whatever that means), kick me out of here... censure me...whatever but this site has become nothing but negative bitching and stupid folks arguing for the simple fact that they dont own a mirror to argue with themselves...this site sometimes sucks. look...my political philosophies arent gonna change and i aint changing yours so why argue...why be such pains in the asses simply because you can. im smart ass number 1 and ill never lose that ranking but its pretty sad when even i hate coming here because people want to complain simply to complain. in the words of john candy....lighten up francis!

It is the offseason. It happens every year on MMB it seems. It will be worse over the summer when spring sports are finished AND football has not started. I do think we need a politics folder to put all of this into like the old board had. Then if you don't want to read philosophical posts no one is making you and it is easier to avoid.

[Kgfish]

Let's assume he's right: God is a myth, the Bible is fiction. Therefore, one dies and simply turns to dust. There exists no other possibility.

Let's assume he's wrong: God is real, the Bible is His direction for living one's life. Therefore, one dies and either goes to Heaven or hell. There exists no other possibilities.

The decision is yours.

What is God is real but the Bible is a made up story. God is offended that you would accept that so in God's anger you are sent to Hell for believing in the wrong books. Is that a possibility?

Or God is real but as long as you live a life of being good to each other then God is not going to be to specific on creed. Is that a possibility?

Had you attended Sunday School when you were little you would have a much clearer understanding of the Christian perspective. The way to heaven - in the eyes of Christians - is very simple. John 3:16 is all you need to read. Peace.

I went to Sunday School in my younger years, in fact I am still a member of a Lutheran Church. I don't think I have said anything that said I was an atheist. I DON"T take the Bible literally, the creation story is an allegory. Actually we should say creation stories as there are two stories of creation in Genesis. I am not a believer in a God that really gets active in everyday events. I don't have a problem with a moment of creation for the universe some 13+ Billion years ago and then it's been hands off since then. I don't think that would prevent a God from also setting in place the laws of science that also includes evolution. The problem is that I can not test and prove through evidence that creation did happen. We can do experiments and look at evidence that could lead us to explain how the universe was formed and that explanation may not need a moment of creation. That is science. Maybe a God covered his tracks, maybe there was not a creation, maybe there was a creation and the evidence was lost in a previous big bang/big crunch that has happened many times over and we are just in one of many bang/crunch events where all evidence of previous cycles are lost to us at least at present. It may have been pure luck that we are here to debate this topic.

Did not intend to portray you as an atheist, perhaps an agnostic. Glad you had a bit of religious upbringing. You say you can not test or prove a creation. Have you been able to undeniably test or prove the big bang is anything more than a theory? Theory is an idea created by man to explain something they can not prove but wish to market it as fact. The idea of creation in seven days is hard for feeble human minds to grasp but when dealing with the Creator of all things what mere mortal can say it could not be done? The meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm יום , is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. At the end of the day it is all based on Faith. Either you have it or you don't. I know this is going to come as a disappoint some of you but this is my last post on the subject.

[hapapp]

Faith has absolutely nothing to do with whether you believe the creation took place in a week.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Let's assume he's right: God is a myth, the Bible is fiction. Therefore, one dies and simply turns to dust. There exists no other possibility.

Let's assume he's wrong: God is real, the Bible is His direction for living one's life. Therefore, one dies and either goes to Heaven or hell. There exists no other possibilities.

The decision is yours.

What is God is real but the Bible is a made up story. God is offended that you would accept that so in God's anger you are sent to Hell for believing in the wrong books. Is that a possibility?

Or God is real but as long as you live a life of being good to each other then God is not going to be to specific on creed. Is that a possibility?

Had you attended Sunday School when you were little you would have a much clearer understanding of the Christian perspective. The way to heaven - in the eyes of Christians - is very simple. John 3:16 is all you need to read. Peace.

I went to Sunday School in my younger years, in fact I am still a member of a Lutheran Church. I don't think I have said anything that said I was an atheist. I DON"T take the Bible literally, the creation story is an allegory. Actually we should say creation stories as there are two stories of creation in Genesis. I am not a believer in a God that really gets active in everyday events. I don't have a problem with a moment of creation for the universe some 13+ Billion years ago and then it's been hands off since then. I don't think that would prevent a God from also setting in place the laws of science that also includes evolution. The problem is that I can not test and prove through evidence that creation did happen. We can do experiments and look at evidence that could lead us to explain how the universe was formed and that explanation may not need a moment of creation. That is science. Maybe a God covered his tracks, maybe there was not a creation, maybe there was a creation and the evidence was lost in a previous big bang/big crunch that has happened many times over and we are just in one of many bang/crunch events where all evidence of previous cycles are lost to us at least at present. It may have been pure luck that we are here to debate this topic.

Did not intend to portray you as an atheist, perhaps an agnostic. Glad you had a bit of religious upbringing. You say you can not test or prove a creation. Have you been able to undeniably test or prove the big bang is anything more than a theory? Theory is an idea created by man to explain something they can not prove but wish to market it as fact. The idea of creation in seven days is hard for feeble human minds to grasp but when dealing with the Creator of all things what mere mortal can say it could not be done? The meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm יום , is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. At the end of the day it is all based on Faith. Either you have it or you don't. I know this is going to come as a disappoint some of you but this is my last post on the subject.

I know you did not imply I was atheist, and as soon as I hit submit I knew what I wrote sounded like I was thinking you were implying I was an atheist. I guess I wrote that b/c I have been coming across a bit anti-religious. A bit of devil's advocate, and more so some sincere thoughts on my part. I do find myself doubting more and more. Martin Luther was a doubter and well, and my first name is Thomas. Hopefully I am not as anti-semitic as Martin Luther.

I could write more but I have a ton of stuff to do.