"Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by NoLongerLurking » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:55 pm

Yardsale at Satt's house!!!!



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by appfanjj » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:54 pm

To all the negative posters here: we are 2-0 with a big opportunity ahead on the 21st and beyond. Would you rather have had a big time performance by our D and lost? I am thankful we won. We have passionate fans. We have a great offense. Our defense will be fine. We are App State.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by t4pizza » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:06 pm

Good perspective in this thread. Anyone that has followed App for any amount of time should be well used to unexpectedly bad wins or even loses because they happen all the time. The good part is that it is usually a bad win, just like last weekend. People act like we have never had first year starting dbs get torched, or players struggle with a new defensive coordinator and scheme, or let a team we underestimated to play us tougher than we expected, this is App State Football and all of those thing happen. As bad as our d looked, we still won the game and its still a lot better than that Liberty loss.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by appstatealum » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:08 am

We are in a great position having really “hit rock bottom” defensively, but still won and now have an extra week to prepare for UNC.

As the thread indicates, our defense improved drastically from 2017 to 18. The Georgia Southern game was our only blip on the radar, and you can really attribute that to Fehr being thrown out and we never could keep edge control for the rest of the game. I think this is why everyone was so upset after Saturday, we literally went from watching probably the greatest defense we have ever had to watching a meltdown.

It will be OK. As someone said yesterday, App has always been a “player led” program, and I think our great culture and desire to win will takeover now. Go App.


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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by dstreet01 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am

The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm

dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:17 pm

dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
If this were actually true, how does he continuously get hired for this position? If you weren't good at what you do, do you think that you would still be doing it for 30 years? The coaching circle is very tight and they know who can help them stay employed.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by ericsaid » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:27 pm

appvette wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:12 pm
How many games over the past 3 years under Satt would you say we had performances as bad or worse than Saturday against UNCC?

This really opened my eyes to how unrealistic my own expectations were since Satt had 12 games that were either bad losses or ugly wins in 3 years. In some cases, we had bad performances against the worst teams in the country whereas UNCC will likely make a bowl. I didn't even include beatdowns by Clemson or Georgia or the loss to Troy where we could have won the outright championship.
We seem to forget these bad games and only remember the good from previous seasons. I guess we can allow Drink to have 1 or 2 ugly wins!

2016 (Beat Toledo in bowl game)

Game 3 – embarrassed by Miami at home
Game 4 – Gave up 38 points and about 500 yards to Akron
Game 5 – Went into halftime 0-0 against winless Georgia State
Game 7 – Went into halftime 10-6 against Idaho (now FCS)

2017 (Beat Toledo in bowl game 34-0)

Game 3 – Beat a terrible Texas State team by 7 points, was outgained in yards 385 – 283
Game 4 – lost to Wake Forest
Game 5 – New Mexico State (2-4) - went into 4th quarter tied, NMSU outgained App in yards 532-425 and first downs 28-17. Won 45-31 due to 6 turnovers by NMSU
Game 6 – Idaho (2-4)– Went into halftime down 17-0 and into 4th quarter down 20-7. Outgained in yards 312-276. Won 23-20
Game 7 – Coastal Carolina (1-6) – Went into halftime down 19- 17, won 37-29
Game 8 – Umass (2-6) – lost 30-27
Game 9 – ULM (4-5) – lost 52-45

2018 (killed MTSU in bowl)
Game 7 – Took a #25 ranking into Georgia Southern and got smacked down 34-14
According to ESPN's Playstation Player Impact Ratings, mostly based on statistics from last season (released on September 5th) Jordan Fehr was number 5 and Zac Thomas 33 in their rankings with a score of 99 and 97, respectively (out of 100). They were rated number 5 and number 33 out of every single player in FBS. Of course most people know the impact that their departures had on the game but to the laymen, they likely thought it was just a bad loss by App.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by dstreet01 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.
His record speaks for itself....and like I said....I will hope anyway.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by Yosef10 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:12 pm

dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm
Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.
His record speaks for itself....and like I said....I will hope anyway.
Yes his national championship ring does speak for itself. Get a clue.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by hapapp » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:17 pm

dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm
Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.
His record speaks for itself....and like I said....I will hope anyway.
If you take a closer look at his record, there were many stops were the defense improved under his guidance. People tend to focus on his Duke and second Ga Tech stops.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Roof):

"After spending the first season coaching the Yellow Jackets linebackers, Roof was promoted to defensive coordinator. He was nominated for the 2000 Broyles Award, an annual honor given to the nation's top assistant coach, when his defense finished the season ranked 12th in the nation in rushing defense and 20th in scoring defense."

"Roof left Georgia Tech to become the defensive coordinator at Duke for the 2002 season. Roof's instruction brought marked improvement to the Duke Blue Devils defense, which led the ACC in rushing defense after finishing ninth in the league the previous year. From 2001 to 2002, the Blue Devils moved from ninth to fifth in the ACC and from 113th to 58th nationally in total defense. They progressed in passing defense in the 2003 season, jumping to third-place in the ACC from ninth the previous year."

He then became the Duke head coach and he was eventually fired after his teams went 6-45.

"...on February 21, 2008 that Roof would succeed Everett Withers as the defensive coordinator at the University of Minnesota.[7] Under just one season of Roof's tutelage, the Gophers made tremendous improvements to give up 160 fewer passing yards per game and over 135 fewer total yards when compared to the previous year's 119th ranked defense. Besides the nation's worst total defense, Roof also inherited a squad which had ranked 115th in pass defense, 114th in rushing defense and 109th in scoring defense in 2007. Roof's defense made strides throughout the season and finished ranked in the top-25 in both sacks[8] and tackles for loss[9] after being ranked 103rd[10] and 116th[11] the previous season."

As most know, he was the DC on the Auburn team that won a BCS championship. To be fair, over time his Auburn defenses did regress some.

He was hired to be Penn State's defense coordinator and within months the program was hit with NCAA sanctions related to the Sandusky scandal. "Despite the difficult conditions of the program, Roof led the defense to rank second in the Big Ten Conference in scoring defense, led the league in sacks, ranked first in red-zone defense and third in turnover margin. Nationally, Penn State ranked tied for first in red-zone defense, 15th in sacks,[15] 16th in scoring defense,[16] 23rd in rushing defense, 28th in pass efficiency defense and 29th in total defense."

From there he would, of course, he would go back to GT as DC and then before coming here he was Co-DC at NC State.

People can judge for themselves but I wouldn't regard his career as that of someone who failed to turn things around or one mired in mediocrity. Perhaps, he's not the right fit for us but he continues to get hired because he has had quite a bit of success as a DC.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by dstreet01 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:12 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm
Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.
His record speaks for itself....and like I said....I will hope anyway.
Yes his national championship ring does speak for itself. Get a clue.
Wow!....is your last name Roof?



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by Yosef10 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:17 pm

dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:59 pm
Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:12 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm
Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:11 pm
dstreet01 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:09 am
The flaw in your reasoning is that those past turnarounds were with either inexperienced coaches, or experienced coaches who had proven they could recover.....there was reason for hope.

We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over......big difference.

But I will hope anyway.
We get it. You're a skeptic. The statement that "We now have an experienced DC who has proven he can't turn things around.....over and over" is BS though. No such thing has been proven.

Despite your last statement, it sounds like you (and a few others) would rather be right than to actually pull for improvement.
His record speaks for itself....and like I said....I will hope anyway.
Yes his national championship ring does speak for itself. Get a clue.
Wow!....is your last name Roof?
Nah you’re just talking out of your ass.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by Yosef84 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:48 pm

I agree. His record does speak for itself. Here is a summary of the programs where Roof has coached since 2008 and how they've all done in terms of the ranking of the Defense (total D). Let's look:
Image

Comments by school:
Minnesota: Hard to evaluate. This is one of his only stops where his ranking was worse than the average, although he was 10 places better than the average of the subsequent 4 years and Minnesota seems to have improved significantly beginning with the 5th year subsequent to Roof being there. Obviously, he did well enough to attract Auburn (who hired him away).
Auburn: His average ranking of 64.5 seems unimpressive but includes a national championship in 2010 and is generally in line with Auburn's defensive rankings until 2016 when they appear to have taken a step forward.
UCF: Defense was ranked 9th in the country which UCF has still not beaten. UCF remained in the teens for 3 years after Roof but haven't ranked higher than 36 since. The year before Roof went to UCF, they ranked 88th in total D. I'd say 88 to 9 is a pretty impressive improvement.
Penn State: Of the programs where he coached, PSU has had the most consistently high ranking D, but in the "non-Roof" years since 2008, their average D ranking is 23.5. Roof's D is their highest ranking at 16.
Georgia Tech: Despite all the negative comments about him at GT, in his 5 years he averaged a ranking of 46.8 which exceeds the average of the other years reviewed by 11. Only 2008 ranked higher than his average except 2008. Nate Woody replaced him in 2018 and the D ranking got worse, increasing from 63 to 79.
NCSU: The year before Roof, NCSU ranked 51. Roof's D rose to 45 which has only been bettered in 2 years during the period reviewed. The average ranking for State's D without Roof was 58.1.

I just don't see any pattern that says Roof has gone into ANY program and taken the Defense backwards. Yes, he has been a bit of a journeyman but all that proves is that he is good at getting up to speed quickly. With the exception of GT, he has been a professional "interim" which might not be a bad thing in our situation...or maybe he'll just knock the top out and fall in love with App State Football!

Yep...The Record speaks for itself.

Note: I created a nice spreadsheet but can't get it to post on here.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by VNova » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:40 pm

Yosef84 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:48 pm
I agree. His record does speak for itself. Here is a summary of the programs where Roof has coached since 2008 and how they've all done in terms of the ranking of the Defense (total D). Let's look:
Image

Comments by school:
Minnesota: Hard to evaluate. This is one of his only stops where his ranking was worse than the average, although he was 10 places better than the average of the subsequent 4 years and Minnesota seems to have improved significantly beginning with the 5th year subsequent to Roof being there. Obviously, he did well enough to attract Auburn (who hired him away).
Auburn: His average ranking of 64.5 seems unimpressive but includes a national championship in 2010 and is generally in line with Auburn's defensive rankings until 2016 when they appear to have taken a step forward.
UCF: Defense was ranked 9th in the country which UCF has still not beaten. UCF remained in the teens for 3 years after Roof but haven't ranked higher than 36 since. The year before Roof went to UCF, they ranked 88th in total D. I'd say 88 to 9 is a pretty impressive improvement.
Penn State: Of the programs where he coached, PSU has had the most consistently high ranking D, but in the "non-Roof" years since 2008, their average D ranking is 23.5. Roof's D is their highest ranking at 16.
Georgia Tech: Despite all the negative comments about him at GT, in his 5 years he averaged a ranking of 46.8 which exceeds the average of the other years reviewed by 11. Only 2008 ranked higher than his average except 2008. Nate Woody replaced him in 2018 and the D ranking got worse, increasing from 63 to 79.
NCSU: The year before Roof, NCSU ranked 51. Roof's D rose to 45 which has only been bettered in 2 years during the period reviewed. The average ranking for State's D without Roof was 58.1.

I just don't see any pattern that says Roof has gone into ANY program and taken the Defense backwards. Yes, he has been a bit of a journeyman but all that proves is that he is good at getting up to speed quickly. With the exception of GT, he has been a professional "interim" which might not be a bad thing in our situation...or maybe he'll just knock the top out and fall in love with App State Football!

Yep...The Record speaks for itself.

Note: I created a nice spreadsheet but can't get it to post on here.
Could you share it on google drive or upload it somewhere? I'm interested in what you put together.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by HighPointApp » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:44 pm

Why does it matter who a person votes for? Way to high jack this thread into a political arena.

SMH


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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by 1ASU78 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:22 pm

t4pizza wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:06 pm
Good perspective in this thread. Anyone that has followed App for any amount of time should be well used to unexpectedly bad wins or even loses because they happen all the time. The good part is that it is usually a bad win, just like last weekend. People act like we have never had first year starting dbs get torched, or players struggle with a new defensive coordinator and scheme, or let a team we underestimated to play us tougher than we expected, this is App State Football and all of those thing happen. As bad as our d looked, we still won the game and its still a lot better than that Liberty loss.
Amen
We've always had the game we could have should have but didn't.
Going back several Moore years we went through a "no Moore" period around here. Now we're getting a plaza and statue. Things change.
So coach Drink, go fight win give em hell !!

PS. and I was perplexed leaving the game Sat. I'm feeling better now. But one of our traditions that has not changed is an UGLY game now and again.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by Appster99 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:42 pm

1ASU78 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:22 pm
t4pizza wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:06 pm
Good perspective in this thread. Anyone that has followed App for any amount of time should be well used to unexpectedly bad wins or even loses because they happen all the time. The good part is that it is usually a bad win, just like last weekend. People act like we have never had first year starting dbs get torched, or players struggle with a new defensive coordinator and scheme, or let a team we underestimated to play us tougher than we expected, this is App State Football and all of those thing happen. As bad as our d looked, we still won the game and its still a lot better than that Liberty loss.
Amen
We've always had the game we could have should have but didn't.
Going back several Moore years we went through a "no Moore" period around here. Now we're getting a plaza and statue. Things change.
So coach Drink, go fight win give em hell !!

PS. and I was perplexed leaving the game Sat. I'm feeling better now. But one of our traditions that has not changed is an UGLY game now and again.
At least this was an ugly W! Take that over a loss where the D is lights out all but one single play and lose 3-0.



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Re: "Poor Performances" in the past 3 years

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:39 am

appvette wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:12 pm
How many games over the past 3 years under Satt would you say we had performances as bad or worse than Saturday against UNCC?

This really opened my eyes to how unrealistic my own expectations were since Satt had 12 games that were either bad losses or ugly wins in 3 years. In some cases, we had bad performances against the worst teams in the country whereas UNCC will likely make a bowl. I didn't even include beatdowns by Clemson or Georgia or the loss to Troy where we could have won the outright championship.
We seem to forget these bad games and only remember the good from previous seasons. I guess we can allow Drink to have 1 or 2 ugly wins!

2016 (Beat Toledo in bowl game)

Game 3 – embarrassed by Miami at home
Game 4 – Gave up 38 points and about 500 yards to Akron
Game 5 – Went into halftime 0-0 against winless Georgia State
Game 7 – Went into halftime 10-6 against Idaho (now FCS)

2017 (Beat Toledo in bowl game 34-0)

Game 3 – Beat a terrible Texas State team by 7 points, was outgained in yards 385 – 283
Game 4 – lost to Wake Forest
Game 5 – New Mexico State (2-4) - went into 4th quarter tied, NMSU outgained App in yards 532-425 and first downs 28-17. Won 45-31 due to 6 turnovers by NMSU
Game 6 – Idaho (2-4)– Went into halftime down 17-0 and into 4th quarter down 20-7. Outgained in yards 312-276. Won 23-20
Game 7 – Coastal Carolina (1-6) – Went into halftime down 19- 17, won 37-29
Game 8 – Umass (2-6) – lost 30-27
Game 9 – ULM (4-5) – lost 52-45

2018 (killed MTSU in bowl)
Game 7 – Took a #25 ranking into Georgia Southern and got smacked down 34-14
A few things that I think we overlook sometimes on your post though.

The lack of a big time talent at QB and Scott being so conservative at times is what hurt us in previous years. Last year we only got blown out by GSU because ZT got hurt. Lamb could not make throws that you need to in order to beat P5s and I felt the talent at QB finally caught up to the rest of the roster last year. Lamb was very smart and ran our offense well but he was not a true dual threat with a big arm like ZT. I always wondered if Lamb's arm is what kept Scott from opening up more and last year saw it is just how Scott approached things.

This year is the first time coming into a season that we know we have a P5 talent at QB and enough weapons back that we should have very high expectations. I don't care about the coaching change because we have several coaches back and I know Drink is smart enough to cater his offense to what works best for the talent he inherited.

I'm not calling for pitchforks on Roof right now but I'm hoping he was just trying things out and will run more zone. Our talent is not built for man coverage. It will get us burned badly against a team like UNC and South Carolina. If we don't see improvement then I will want him gone at the end of the year. I hope myself and most others on here are wrong about Roof though.



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