Appalachian's Future in Online Courses

[GoApps70]

Some people are speculating that traditional colleges are going to change a lot over the next few years. Seen more and more speculation that as many as 10% of all colleges will be out of business in the next few years. Much of that change would come from online courses. Some colleges are pushing them quite a bit, some not at all virtually. Some colleges are getting rich off them. Many of those are now called diploma mills by many.

What should App State do? Compete with these diploma mills, allowing them to become tremendously wealthy, or ignore the trend, or a combination?

Some colleges are giving the online courses for free. Most of those free courses do not seem to give credit hours for their courses. Or if you pay, and do a little extra work you can get credit hours in some cases.

Just do not understand why some universities are literally getting filthy rich with online courses, while others are abstaining from them so much. Some administrators attitudes to them being "diploma mills" if they do a lot of online courses seem to be part of the rejection by some of the universities not offering a lot of online courses.

"Liberty’s expansion has yielded a river of money. The university ended 2012 with more than $1 billion in net assets for the first time, counting cash, property, investments and other holdings. That is 10 times what the school had in 2006, putting Liberty in the same financial league as universities such as Pepperdine, Georgetown and Tulane."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/educ...story.html

I personally do not like the thought of making our degrees less valuable by having a lot of online courses for the university to make money from. However, I also do not like the thought of App State becoming one of the poorer schools by not doing it. Especially considering the amounts of money some schools are making.

[Maddog1956]

I think "on-line" degrees should carry a special distinction kind of like a GED, if over a certain number of hours were attained online. It doesn't necessarily mean more or less just different. Let the market (master programs, employers, etc) place what value they want on the "online" stamp, but at least let have a way for people to know.

Personally I think as an employer I would like to know the person made some effort to attain their education and had some of the interaction that going to a university provides but everyone made not feel the same way.

The big worry is could I pay someone in China to get a Phd under my name in 6 months?

[GoApps70]

See your point. And I think it can make a difference in hiring if known.

Saw this other article about another university's online program:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... -online#p1

[bcoach]

How do you judge when a school becomes a diploma mill? VT has over 250 online courses offered just in this summer session alone, and that will only increase. Higher education is no different than anything else " It's all about money. If they can't get it in on campus tuition, taxes, and grants, they have to get it somewhere.

[GoApps70]

Believe that most educators believe that a diploma mill designation is earned when a school is selling degrees online. Virtually the money is the important aspect instead of a good product for whatever price.

Had an ECU grad say that East Carolina is by far the largest provider of online courses in North Carolina and was said that they are making a ton of money on the online programs. Believe they call them distant learning or something like that. May be distance learning or education. Not sure that they have made a billion dollars in the past couple of years like Liberty University, but sounds like ECU is doing well with online courses. Troy University is doing a lot of online courses with the military, particularly overseas.

Some schools, seems like the rich ones or well endowed offer their courses online for free. Or at least videos of their courses, to promote knowledge. Notice some of these same universities put an ad on those pages asking for donations many times. Many will let you pay some money and give you credit hours for watching these videos and completing a set of online questions and/or essays.
Here are a couple of examples from MIT and Harvard:
http://ocw.mit.edu/about/
http://www.extension.harvard.edu/open-le...initiative

Just noticed that on my current Yosefs Cabin page is a UNC-Greensboro ad - clicked on it and has a smooth easy sign up and enrollment - online or on campus....seems like App State just isn't taking advantage of these courses like most universities are.

[AppStateNews]

I am in my last semester of my MBA right now at Charleston Southern. When I lived in Charleston, they offered either online or face to face night classes for people with full time jobs. I chose to do the face to face classes majority of the time since they were cheaper and I lived 10 minutes from campus.

Now that I moved to Charlotte for work, I am forced to do the online portion (or transfer which would be stupid since I am almost done) for my remaining classes. I don't know if Charleston Southern is different from other online classes, but the online classes are significantly harder than the face to face and far from being a "diploma mill." They cover the same material, have the same assignments, have the same tests and quizzes, but with no lectures. So you are forced to learn on your own with the readings from the textbook and supplementary materials you can find at the local library or online.

So, in my experience, online classes are in no way easier and "diploma mill" classes. Without the online classes, I would have wasted/lost a lot of money on classes that would not have transferred over with the move.

[GoApps70]

Believe there is a huge difference in online courses depending upon what school you are taking them from. Reading some things in the past it would seem that the hardest things about courses from some schools is paying the money to take them.

[Maddog1956]

Believe there is a huge difference in online courses depending upon what school you are taking them from. Reading some things in the past it would seem that the hardest things about courses from some schools is paying the money to take them.

I'm pretty much in agreement. Every school has a certain number of online courses. App does and my kids sometimes take them because everyone tells them that they are easier, but I'm sure that's just opinion. It at least takes less effort than going to class. I'm still don't know how you keep other students from taking your test which would seem like a problem to me, unless they have to come to class for test.

I always thought I picked up more understand from the interaction in class but that just could be me. I got my MBA right after undergrad so I always liked hearing from people that was actually working. I've had several friends that received their MBA at APP's off campus program and hearing and relating the "real world" experience of others was also something that then said was of value to them.

They are certainly money makers however, a college can develop a program and sell it to several other colleges. The PhD program I was thinking of taking at ECU was connected with IU's program.

I think having a totally online program calls into question a schools quality but again it depends on the school.

[AppStateNews]

I'm still don't know how you keep other students from taking your test which would seem like a problem to me, unless they have to come to class for test.

My program at Charleston Southern requires we take the test using a service called ProctorU.com . We have to pay to take a test on a web cam. The service also has complete control and view of your computer desktop so they can easily see if you start browsing the web for answers. Before the test is taken, you have to answer a series of questions that only you will know (i.e. which of these addresses have you lived at, etc.) The answers to these questions, I guess, are from public records (or bought from a company like ChoicePoint) so it's nothing that can be generic that you provide the answer to before hand. In addition to that, you have to show a photo id and scan the room with the webcam to prove its you and you don't have any cheat sheets laying around.

So between them being able to see you, hear you, have control and see your computer, personal questions, and seeing the environment you are in, they have a pretty good grip on not allowing another student to take the test.

[AppStateNews]

I think the difference between which schools are solid schools when it comes to online classes is the accreditation. It is my understanding that if a school is accredited for non-online classes, the online classes have to follow the same curriculum to maintain the accreditation.

[newtoasu]

I think the difference between which schools are solid schools when it comes to online classes is the accreditation. It is my understanding that if a school is accredited for non-online classes, the online classes have to follow the same curriculum to maintain the accreditation.

That is correct. The standards and who teaches has to be the same for online and face to face for accreditation by both the regional accrediting body (Southern Association for NC schools) and any special accreditation (AACSB for Business, NCATE for Education, etc.). That being said, I know that some schools do some "tricks" with their programs. For instance, the University of Maryland offers their face to face business degrees through the AACSB accredited Robert Smith College of Business on the College Park campus. It is possible to get an online business degree from the University of Maryland "University College" program which is NOT AACSB accredited even though the degree is accredited by the regional accreditation agency (SACS).

It can get confusing.

[GoApps70]

I think the difference between which schools are solid schools when it comes to online classes is the accreditation. It is my understanding that if a school is accredited for non-online classes, the online classes have to follow the same curriculum to maintain the accreditation.

That is interesting. Had not heard that before. If true there can still be a major difference in courses and how hard they are I imagine. Looks like there would be a separate online accreditation center, because online courses have to be a little different, and would set at least minimum standards.


If it's an online course it's on the internet, therefore it must be a true course.

[AppGrad1]

My daughter has her degree from ASU.
She is now enrolled at Grand Canyon online courses to obtain her Masters.
She can continue her full time job and get her Masters and never leave her home.
She will get the same pay raise as if she commuted or lived on campus.
Saving gas money and classroom time was the deciding factor.
It may hurt some colleges but as for the individuals it's a no brainer.
ASU needs to find a way to get on board with this.

[bcoach]

I'm still don't know how you keep other students from taking your test which would seem like a problem to me, unless they have to come to class for test.

My program at Charleston Southern requires we take the test using a service called ProctorU.com . We have to pay to take a test on a web cam. The service also has complete control and view of your computer desktop so they can easily see if you start browsing the web for answers. Before the test is taken, you have to answer a series of questions that only you will know (i.e. which of these addresses have you lived at, etc.) The answers to these questions, I guess, are from public records (or bought from a company like ChoicePoint) so it's nothing that can be generic that you provide the answer to before hand. In addition to that, you have to show a photo id and scan the room with the webcam to prove its you and you don't have any cheat sheets laying around.

So between them being able to see you, hear you, have control and see your computer, personal questions, and seeing the environment you are in, they have a pretty good grip on not allowing another student to take the test.

I think that service is provided by the IRS