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ZT's future

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:55 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:40 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:36 pm
APPRIDE wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:35 pm
While Zac has noticeably been inaccurate w/ so many throws this year that he used to make routinely, as well as not running for forward progress not nearly as much as he used to, I haven't really seen all of this vitriol that some claim this board is throwing his way. What I have seen is a lot of questioning as to why it's happening and what about our coaching and schemes has made this what it is.

I think the vast majority on here respect and appreciate Zac's entire body of work... I know I do!
The inaccuracies were in large part due to some unfamiliarity with guys that were forced into service. Some throws made last year weren’t there this year.
That is definitely true but many of those throws were just a lack of accuracy or arm strength. Can't blame a young WR for a ball thrown 7 yards over the head of a wide open guy in the endzone or a ball thrown 5 yards short in the dirt to an open guy as well. Zac lit up the bad teams with those good throws but struggled against good teams.
That’s a broad brush statement to call the throws inaccurate. Without knowing the playcall, there is no way of knowing if the receiver ran the correct route. I know that one critical INT was due to a poorly run route. Given that Zac’s completion percentage didn’t show a great deviation from the past years, I would question the statements legitimacy.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by appstatealum » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:06 pm

Rekdiver wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:44 pm
appstatealum wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:28 pm
I highly doubt he will be drafted. He certainly has the skills to make an NFL roster, but he has some mental things to overcome to reach his true potential.
What the heck does that mean????
Zac always felt like he should've been recruited by an SEC school and it was a good motivator for his first season here. When things were going good and fluid, he was fine. When he had controversy, which he often did with the coaching changes etc, he struggled with some different mental hurdles. He doubted himself a lot and seemed to be just a little "flustered" (best word I can put on it). I'm also privy to him not wanting to put in extra time into practice or preparedness (when he had the opportunity). Coaches acknowledged that he was "fragile" and he didn't get pushed like he was supposed to as a result.

You can discount what I say, criticize what I say, say I don't know what I'm talking about, or condemn me for sharing. Don't care. I like Zac and I wish the best for him. I appreciate his time here and he has been my 3rd favorite QB behind Richie and AE.
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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:05 pm

appstatealum wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:06 pm
Rekdiver wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:44 pm
appstatealum wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:28 pm
I highly doubt he will be drafted. He certainly has the skills to make an NFL roster, but he has some mental things to overcome to reach his true potential.
What the heck does that mean????
Zac always felt like he should've been recruited by an SEC school and it was a good motivator for his first season here. When things were going good and fluid, he was fine. When he had controversy, which he often did with the coaching changes etc, he struggled with some different mental hurdles. He doubted himself a lot and seemed to be just a little "flustered" (best word I can put on it). I'm also privy to him not wanting to put in extra time into practice or preparedness (when he had the opportunity). Coaches acknowledged that he was "fragile" and he didn't get pushed like he was supposed to as a result.

You can discount what I say, criticize what I say, say I don't know what I'm talking about, or condemn me for sharing. Don't care. I like Zac and I wish the best for him. I appreciate his time here and he has been my 3rd favorite QB behind Richie and AE.
Going back through mental note on Zac’s demeanor at times, I can see this.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by Seattleapp » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:17 pm

HighPointApp wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:15 pm
If you had been through what ZT had been through the last 2 years, one would expect some mental mistakes.

I’m glad you shared your insight from ZT’s family member. Not very classy.
Dude come off that high horse. The bottom line is this, Thomas was a very average quarterback this year. We all appreciate his contributions to the program, but as I’ve said 100 times, he looked often times like he didn’t want to even be there. None of us know what goes through these kids heads, but it’s not breaking some unwritten law to point out things you observe.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:21 pm

How in the hell does such a positive comment about Zac get turned into this mess? I really need to put this down for at least a few months again.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by Seattleapp » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:24 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:21 pm
How in the hell does such a positive comment about Zac get turned into this mess? I really need to put this down for at least a few months again.
It’s simple. You have some posters who are honest about their assessment of Thomas and you have others who will blame everyone and his brother for ZT’s struggles and if anyone questions that they take it personally and accuse people of not rooting for ZT. I’m not really understanding this hero worship of ZT to be honest. But that’s just me

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by appstatealum » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:34 pm

Right.

It's sports. This is a message board dedicated to talking sports. Nobody (outside of Cline maybe) is making "hot takes" for publicity. We don't all have to agree, but many of us have different views and many have different "inside" sources to bolster different takes. This board is a way to gather all of the different views and cultivate your own opinion or view. Its OK to disagree and says so, but no need for personal attacks or tell people they are liars. I've had plenty of PM conversations with posters to verify their "inside" knowledge and in return I've verified mine. Thst doesn't mean everything we say is "gold", it just means we have different facts to support our opinions. Sometimes things are more than just opinions and based on direct knowledge, some are just opinions we develop based on the facts we get.
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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by t4pizza » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:47 pm

I have posted many thing on here about my perception of the regression of Zac Thomas this year. That said, I do understand that having 3 different head coaches, OC and qb coaches in 3 years is very hard on anyone and I bet NFL guys realize this as well. I have no idea if he will be drafted although my best guess is that he will not. That does not mean that I do not like him or want him to succeed, it just means that I do not think he will get drafted based on what I saw on the field this year and his measurables. I wish him the best in anything he does and I will pull for him wherever he plays in the future because he is a Mountaineer through and through and he did give his all for Appalachian State.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by Rekdiver » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:06 am

Richie, Armanti and Taylor had the benefit of a stable coaching staff.....That ZT did as well as he did is a testament to his dedication to App.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:08 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:55 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:40 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:36 pm
APPRIDE wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:35 pm
While Zac has noticeably been inaccurate w/ so many throws this year that he used to make routinely, as well as not running for forward progress not nearly as much as he used to, I haven't really seen all of this vitriol that some claim this board is throwing his way. What I have seen is a lot of questioning as to why it's happening and what about our coaching and schemes has made this what it is.

I think the vast majority on here respect and appreciate Zac's entire body of work... I know I do!
The inaccuracies were in large part due to some unfamiliarity with guys that were forced into service. Some throws made last year weren’t there this year.
That is definitely true but many of those throws were just a lack of accuracy or arm strength. Can't blame a young WR for a ball thrown 7 yards over the head of a wide open guy in the endzone or a ball thrown 5 yards short in the dirt to an open guy as well. Zac lit up the bad teams with those good throws but struggled against good teams.
That’s a broad brush statement to call the throws inaccurate. Without knowing the playcall, there is no way of knowing if the receiver ran the correct route. I know that one critical INT was due to a poorly run route. Given that Zac’s completion percentage didn’t show a great deviation from the past years, I would question the statements legitimacy.
I'm not talking about every incomplete pass but you are right that is a broad statement. I'm talking about probably 20 or so throws on the year. Several times he over threw Malik Williams for a wide open TD or over thew an out route or put the ball in the dirt throwing to the sideline but just did not have the arm to get it there.

I know sometimes you have to go on timing to make specific throws but many offenses completely rely on them and that is a big reason for so many errant throws that people wonder who messed up.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:12 am

t4pizza wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:47 pm
I have posted many thing on here about my perception of the regression of Zac Thomas this year. That said, I do understand that having 3 different head coaches, OC and qb coaches in 3 years is very hard on anyone and I bet NFL guys realize this as well. I have no idea if he will be drafted although my best guess is that he will not. That does not mean that I do not like him or want him to succeed, it just means that I do not think he will get drafted based on what I saw on the field this year and his measurables. I wish him the best in anything he does and I will pull for him wherever he plays in the future because he is a Mountaineer through and through and he did give his all for Appalachian State.
100% agree. NFL people know but things like missing way too many wide open targets, not having the arm strength to get the ball to the sideline from the opposite hash mark, only having good zip on real short throws, etc. show that his arm will prevent him from getting drafted. I will be interested to see if Zac is going to test at DB because he is a really good athlete. Another issue for Zac is that while he is straight-line fast he is not twitchy or smooth when running.

I think people try to put words in others mouths and assume that doubting someone will make it is the equal to pulling against them. It is not that at all. We are just stating an informed opinion on the fact that he likely lacks the arm to get drafted or make a NFL 53 man roster as a QB. I'll pull hard for him and hope that he fixes those issues and ends up playing in the NFL! I truly appreciate his hard work and sacrifice and I hope he now gives back to the program and comes to games regularly! We will miss him for sure.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:32 am

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:08 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:55 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:40 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:36 pm
APPRIDE wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:35 pm
While Zac has noticeably been inaccurate w/ so many throws this year that he used to make routinely, as well as not running for forward progress not nearly as much as he used to, I haven't really seen all of this vitriol that some claim this board is throwing his way. What I have seen is a lot of questioning as to why it's happening and what about our coaching and schemes has made this what it is.

I think the vast majority on here respect and appreciate Zac's entire body of work... I know I do!
The inaccuracies were in large part due to some unfamiliarity with guys that were forced into service. Some throws made last year weren’t there this year.
That is definitely true but many of those throws were just a lack of accuracy or arm strength. Can't blame a young WR for a ball thrown 7 yards over the head of a wide open guy in the endzone or a ball thrown 5 yards short in the dirt to an open guy as well. Zac lit up the bad teams with those good throws but struggled against good teams.
That’s a broad brush statement to call the throws inaccurate. Without knowing the playcall, there is no way of knowing if the receiver ran the correct route. I know that one critical INT was due to a poorly run route. Given that Zac’s completion percentage didn’t show a great deviation from the past years, I would question the statements legitimacy.
I'm not talking about every incomplete pass but you are right that is a broad statement. I'm talking about probably 20 or so throws on the year. Several times he over threw Malik Williams for a wide open TD or over thew an out route or put the ball in the dirt throwing to the sideline but just did not have the arm to get it there.

I know sometimes you have to go on timing to make specific throws but many offenses completely rely on them and that is a big reason for so many errant throws that people wonder who messed up.
That’s fair. Still doesn’t explain why his completion percentage was about the same.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by The Rock » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:47 am

I noticed quite a few times in the ‘19 season he got really lucky not to have thrown more interceptions. I remember during both UL games, and a few other games he threw bad passes that should have been intercepted, but the defense dropped them. It seems like his luck ran out this year. I don’t think drink was the QB guru he claims to be. I don’t know how much the different QB coaches tried to change what or how he did things, but I think it’s really hard to change the way you learned things and it seemed to work really well under the ponce/ satterfield scheme

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by Rekdiver » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:45 am

ZT is about to get professional advice and guidance. I believe he will respond well.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:34 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:32 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:08 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:55 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:40 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:36 pm

The inaccuracies were in large part due to some unfamiliarity with guys that were forced into service. Some throws made last year weren’t there this year.
That is definitely true but many of those throws were just a lack of accuracy or arm strength. Can't blame a young WR for a ball thrown 7 yards over the head of a wide open guy in the endzone or a ball thrown 5 yards short in the dirt to an open guy as well. Zac lit up the bad teams with those good throws but struggled against good teams.
That’s a broad brush statement to call the throws inaccurate. Without knowing the playcall, there is no way of knowing if the receiver ran the correct route. I know that one critical INT was due to a poorly run route. Given that Zac’s completion percentage didn’t show a great deviation from the past years, I would question the statements legitimacy.
I'm not talking about every incomplete pass but you are right that is a broad statement. I'm talking about probably 20 or so throws on the year. Several times he over threw Malik Williams for a wide open TD or over thew an out route or put the ball in the dirt throwing to the sideline but just did not have the arm to get it there.

I know sometimes you have to go on timing to make specific throws but many offenses completely rely on them and that is a big reason for so many errant throws that people wonder who messed up.
That’s fair. Still doesn’t explain why his completion percentage was about the same.
Completion percentages are inflated because of all the screens, bubbles, and short or quick strikes. Back when most teams had 1-2 WRs it was not as easy to throw for 65 or 70 percent as it is now. Honestly, because of how the game has changed I don't think 60% is the magic mark anymore. A QB needs to be 65+% and really 70% is the mark of an elite QB. When you have 3-4 WRs there are way more chances for an open target than in the old I-Formation that Jerry Moore ran prior to 2004.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:38 pm

The Rock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:47 am
I noticed quite a few times in the ‘19 season he got really lucky not to have thrown more interceptions. I remember during both UL games, and a few other games he threw bad passes that should have been intercepted, but the defense dropped them. It seems like his luck ran out this year. I don’t think drink was the QB guru he claims to be. I don’t know how much the different QB coaches tried to change what or how he did things, but I think it’s really hard to change the way you learned things and it seemed to work really well under the ponce/ satterfield scheme
It is easy to look like a guru when you have NFL talent at QB. I think Drink is very good as a HC but it will be interesting to see if any of the QBs he went after for App pan out. I suspect he is better at running the show than picking QBs. After all, we know that Clark wanted McCall instead of Baldwin-Griffin. Imagine how different 2020 is if Shawn got his way.

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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by NavyApp » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:43 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:38 pm
The Rock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:47 am
I noticed quite a few times in the ‘19 season he got really lucky not to have thrown more interceptions. I remember during both UL games, and a few other games he threw bad passes that should have been intercepted, but the defense dropped them. It seems like his luck ran out this year. I don’t think drink was the QB guru he claims to be. I don’t know how much the different QB coaches tried to change what or how he did things, but I think it’s really hard to change the way you learned things and it seemed to work really well under the ponce/ satterfield scheme
It is easy to look like a guru when you have NFL talent at QB. I think Drink is very good as a HC but it will be interesting to see if any of the QBs he went after for App pan out. I suspect he is better at running the show than picking QBs. After all, we know that Clark wanted McCall instead of Baldwin-Griffin. Imagine how different 2020 is if Shawn got his way.
If Shawn got his way no one would know who Grayson McCall is. He'd be QB3 at the highest this last year. And we know Petersen doesn't give reps outside of the top 2 in practice. But to your point that would also mean Coastal doesn't have a claim to the sunbelt championship this year either.
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Re: ZT's future

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:54 pm

NavyApp wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:43 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:38 pm
The Rock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:47 am
I noticed quite a few times in the ‘19 season he got really lucky not to have thrown more interceptions. I remember during both UL games, and a few other games he threw bad passes that should have been intercepted, but the defense dropped them. It seems like his luck ran out this year. I don’t think drink was the QB guru he claims to be. I don’t know how much the different QB coaches tried to change what or how he did things, but I think it’s really hard to change the way you learned things and it seemed to work really well under the ponce/ satterfield scheme
It is easy to look like a guru when you have NFL talent at QB. I think Drink is very good as a HC but it will be interesting to see if any of the QBs he went after for App pan out. I suspect he is better at running the show than picking QBs. After all, we know that Clark wanted McCall instead of Baldwin-Griffin. Imagine how different 2020 is if Shawn got his way.
If Shawn got his way no one would know who Grayson McCall is. He'd be QB3 at the highest this last year. And we know Petersen doesn't give reps outside of the top 2 in practice. But to your point that would also mean Coastal doesn't have a claim to the sunbelt championship this year either.
That was my point. I'm not saying McCall beats out Zac but I am saying that Coastal likely does not have the same success. They were more limited with Payton so that is why they went with McCall. I am pretty sure CCU is a 8-9 win team but they likely lose to App, Louisiana, Liberty, and one more without McCall.

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