GaSo+NMSU Tried to Cut App State Out of Sun Belt?

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:03 pm

Look at this NMSU local article. NMSU confirmed what was found in the FOI Act that AppStateNation got. NMSU wanted to partner with GaSo in getting into the Sun Belt over App State.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-sp ... source=rss

"LAS CRUCES - New Mexico State University had recent communication with Georgia Southern about possible joint membership into the Sun Belt Conference, according to NMSU Athletics Director McKinley Boston.
But recent conference realignment activity now has Georgia Southern and NMSU working as independent entities in future conference explorations."

Did GaSo team up with NMSU, and try to get into the SB with just them? Sounds like they set up an arrangement and then some other realignment happened, maybe there is a possibility the Sun Belt only may need one member, and that arrangement is off now - maybe.

Would like to think GaSo wouldn't do that, but kind of looks like they did, or are, doing that.

TheMoody1 · Unread post by **TheMoody1** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:12 pm

We know GSU is being pro-active. I have no idea about App. All we hear out of Boone is crickets.

asu66 · Unread post by **asu66** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:18 pm

GoApps70 wrote:Look at this NMSU local article. NMSU confirmed what was found in the FOI Act that AppStateNation got. NMSU wanted to partner with GaSo in getting into the Sun Belt over App State.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-sp ... source=rss

"LAS CRUCES - New Mexico State University had recent communication with Georgia Southern about possible joint membership into the Sun Belt Conference, according to NMSU Athletics Director McKinley Boston.
But recent conference realignment activity now has Georgia Southern and NMSU working as independent entities in future conference explorations."

Did GaSo team up with NMSU, and try to get into the SB with just them? Sounds like they set up an arrangement and then some other realignment happened, maybe there is a possibility the Sun Belt only may need one member, and that arrangement is off now - maybe.

Would like to think GaSo wouldn't do that, but kind of looks like they did, or are, doing that.

I don't doubt that they've "had conversation." But ASU has probably had conversation with others, as well, like maybe JMU (a school with a much better academic profile than GaSouth)! Based on what has been posted, I see no great conspiracy on the part of the iggles. I'm unconvinced that GaSouth's athletic trusts would rather finance road trips for 18 or 19 sports to Las Cruces than to Boone.

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:37 pm

The long trip to Las Cruses, New Mexico, might be a flight versus a drive, but GaSo president didn't have a replacement AD at the time, so who knows. One of the NMSU message boards lit up like a Christmas tree about five days ago with some posters claiming they were a lock to get into the Sun Belt, but we have seen stuff like that before. Just have to hope that the information GaSo and NMSU were sharing about Karl Benson and the SB didn't hurt our chances of an offer. Some are saying that NMSU is under intense pressure to get in or cut costs and positions. Will be interesting to see if Benson throws his old friends at NMSU a lifeline, just hope it doesn't kill our chances.

asu66 · Unread post by **asu66** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:47 pm

There's no question that the pressure's on in a lot of places. Realignment seems to have turned into one ginormous, cutthroat game of chicken. One can't discern friends from enemies; and there's a lot to gain and a lot to lose.

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:09 pm

We may not think there is a conspiracy going on, but fans of NMSU seem to believe it is happening.
NMSU poster wondering if Karl Benson is putting on hold the Sun Belt adding App State until Benson can get a more favorable vote for adding NMSU instead. Seems Sun Belt presidents now might add us, but some Sun Belt teams leaving might sway a vote for a Western team, NMSU.

"Question for you Rojo, In your opinion is Benson putting this on hold or coming up with a new plan? Could he have put it on hold to tilt the balances of power to the Western schools? ex. (xSt.,LA LA, Monroe ect.)Western Kentucky going next to CUSA when Tulsa gets the invite to the BE? Thus allowing him to get the schools he wants rather than the schools some of the presidents there want. Seems to me that Troy is a big voice when it comes to the Sun Belt and doesn't agree with Benson's vision where as the Western schools see more eye to eye with Benson. Just throwing that out there."

posted today at 5:19PM at:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=242&f=2377&t=11298820

MAD Doctor · Unread post by **MAD Doctor** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:28 pm

Good Lord. When are we going to Tribal Council, and does Charlie have the immunity idol?

firemoose · Unread post by **firemoose** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:52 pm

This is fans talking about the SB just like we talk about the SB, CUSA, MAC, BE, etc. I don't believe anything they say anymore than I believe the bloggers that are speculating themselves. Until I hear Benson or another conference commish, one of the schools AD's, something from App (not holding my breath for that one), or offical word coming from a conference headquarters I'm not going to place any credence in anything anymore. This has been going on for so long now that I'm surprised Elvis and Jim Morrison haven't been brought in as having a vote. It's pure speculation by fans who have a stake in hoping where their school is going to play. Could it happen? Yes, it could. Along with about a hundred different scenarios that might also happen. And a meteor could hit Boone tomorrow and make the whole thing a moot point.

As hard as this whole situation is I am just going to sit back, work on the new recruiting pages for the fans on this board, and hope that things fall our way because right now it doesn't appear we can do anything else.

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:33 am

Everyone is tired of this junk. Just do not want to put my head into the sand if things have been going on that we do not know about.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=242&f=2377&t=11298820

CrimsonDisciple wrote: Interesting how the discussions with the Sun Belt and Georgia Southern just stopped. This really points to Conference USA IMO. The Sun Belt discussions, which were ready to bear fruit because of an agreement between Ga Southern and NMSU were put on hold when the BE raided CUSA and CUSA then raided the Sun Belt. Benson got spooked and called off what looked to be a done deal. Link

1. CUSA has been losing quality academic institutions. The profile for CUSA academically is changing (UTSA/North Texas, Middle Tenn), which doesn't sit well with some of the institutions involved. NMSU provides a tier 1 research institution that will help upgrade the academic profile of the conference. UTEP cares little about this, though several others in CUSA no doubt do. UTEP is jealous of NMSU being Tier 1 and them not, and that overrides all logic.

2. contrary to 'old ideas' UTEP is pretty desperate at this point. They undoubtedly know that the MWC isn't going to take them. They also know that CUSA is about to lose ANOTHER western member in Tulsa. The fact is, they need NMSU as much as NMSU needs CUSA. There really isn't another institution that will keep UTEP from being marginalized. NMSU will make UTEP that much more secure. Agreed if the decision was based on logic, but UTEP's is based on 'old emotion' and will not change as long as Princess Di and Baron Bob are involved. The institution they will likely pull for is Texas State. If there was strong support from other CUSA members for NMSU, it's possible UTEP's objections could be countered...but I doubt this is the case. As Charles Barkley says, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it."

3. Western Kentucky is also 'on deck' for CUSA. Does anyone here really believe that Western Kentucky would get UTEP's vote over NMSU? It would further push CUSA 'away' from UTEP. UTEP will push for Texas State, IMO.

4. Is there a western addition that would help UTEP and other texas schools more than NMSU Academically, regionally, and athletically? No, but that's the wrong question when dealing with the UTEP Prez and AD (and money boosters).

Anyone interested should go to the original that I showed a link to as some of this is a reply.
These are NMSU fan posters, but they do some interesting things like over hear their Board of Regents talking, etc. If what they say is true it sounds like we just missed being left our of the Sun Belt not long ago. If true, hope that changes, because I want into the FBS instead of something else happening to keep us out.

firemoose · Unread post by **firemoose** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:53 am

70 and everyone else-I agree with everything you've said and believe me, my head is not in the sand. I have contacts all over campus and within the PTB's. I've known some of these people for more than 20 years. They're not saying anything because there is nothing to be said right now. We're not sitting on our hands waiting for the phone to ring. The plan of action that was just released was not really for the faculty, students or alumni although that was it's secondary purpose as a public document for all of us to see and to help with donations. But it's true purpose was a shot across the bow of every conference and school that wants to move up and a battle plan to show what we have already done, what we are planning to do, and what we can bring to the table. I know even more than I am saying but I'm not going to compromise my sources because then I won't have them anymore.

However, what everyone has to realize is that, as hard as we are fighting (and we are, despite the lack of information coming out), so is every other school that wants to move up, or back into, a conference. Those same conferences are also fighting for their lives. No one knows right now where this is going to end up. And unfortunately the ultimate decision from each and every conference is beyond our control.

Just as some conferences have taken a very public stance, one has been very quiet. We all know who that is. And some schools are being very public about what they are doing. We aren't. It's been that way since the beginning of the fight and I've told several people that I wish they would let us know more but they have chosen to remain quiet. However, people should know that, as quiet as it is outside, behind closed doors it's WWIII and every weapon is being brought to bear. Believe it or don't but, as hard as it is, we will know when we know. And there is nothing that we can do about that. It SUCKS and I'm bloody sick and tired of the whole damn thing but it's just the way it is.

kgblade · Unread post by **kgblade** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:00 am

If any of you guys that have Bobby Lamb's email would ask him his thoughts and/or what he's hearing on the street, that might prove interesting. He certainly has personaly interest in the subject now.

GoAppsGo92 · Unread post by **GoAppsGo92** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:02 am

Have to agree with Firemoose.

I also think folks are reading too much into the dinner in Atlanta with officals from NMSU and GSU. While I have no doubt that GSU is in it for themselves, I also don't think there is much these two schools can do other than compare notes. They are both on the outside looking in, and I see no advantage to joining forces.

I have a heart for a particularly quiet conference too. Just had an opportunity to visit Harrisonburg, VA and was surprised by the similarities between ASU and JMU. Much better fit and finish of the campus and students than any existing team we play against in the SoCon. Academics and demographics make so much more sense with two other conferences that we have a chance at. Sunbelt with GaGa Southern will work, but I sure would like us to work every angle to try to forge something with the MAC or CUSA so that no stone is left unturned.

ASUMountaineer · Unread post by **ASUMountaineer** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:17 am

GoApps70 wrote:Everyone is tired of this junk. Just do not want to put my head into the sand if things have been going on that we do not know about.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=242&f=2377&t=11298820

CrimsonDisciple wrote: Interesting how the discussions with the Sun Belt and Georgia Southern just stopped. This really points to Conference USA IMO. The Sun Belt discussions, which were ready to bear fruit because of an agreement between Ga Southern and NMSU were put on hold when the BE raided CUSA and CUSA then raided the Sun Belt. Benson got spooked and called off what looked to be a done deal. Link

1. CUSA has been losing quality academic institutions. The profile for CUSA academically is changing (UTSA/North Texas, Middle Tenn), which doesn't sit well with some of the institutions involved. NMSU provides a tier 1 research institution that will help upgrade the academic profile of the conference. UTEP cares little about this, though several others in CUSA no doubt do. UTEP is jealous of NMSU being Tier 1 and them not, and that overrides all logic.

2. contrary to 'old ideas' UTEP is pretty desperate at this point. They undoubtedly know that the MWC isn't going to take them. They also know that CUSA is about to lose ANOTHER western member in Tulsa. The fact is, they need NMSU as much as NMSU needs CUSA. There really isn't another institution that will keep UTEP from being marginalized. NMSU will make UTEP that much more secure. Agreed if the decision was based on logic, but UTEP's is based on 'old emotion' and will not change as long as Princess Di and Baron Bob are involved. The institution they will likely pull for is Texas State. If there was strong support from other CUSA members for NMSU, it's possible UTEP's objections could be countered...but I doubt this is the case. As Charles Barkley says, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it."

3. Western Kentucky is also 'on deck' for CUSA. Does anyone here really believe that Western Kentucky would get UTEP's vote over NMSU? It would further push CUSA 'away' from UTEP. UTEP will push for Texas State, IMO.

4. Is there a western addition that would help UTEP and other texas schools more than NMSU Academically, regionally, and athletically? No, but that's the wrong question when dealing with the UTEP Prez and AD (and money boosters).

Anyone interested should go to the original that I showed a link to as some of this is a reply.
These are NMSU fan posters, but they do some interesting things like over hear their Board of Regents talking, etc. If what they say is true it sounds like we just missed being left our of the Sun Belt not long ago. If true, hope that changes, because I want into the FBS instead of something else happening to keep us out.

WTF? Don't want to put your head in the sand? I'm sure CC and Peacock are on pins and needles waiting for your report from your investigation into the NMSU message board!

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:11 am

Firemoose - Am sure that you have your people in the know. I may also. But truthfully even with that there are things going on that I see no talk about here. IF we are going to get screwed to the wall again then I want to know as much as I can about the details. Many are tired of wanting us to move up for so many years without it happening. Our options go down every year, and our chances. Some conferences are beginning to look at us as if we should have been taken already, so there must be something wrong with us.

I have heard some good things, and you probably have also. However, nothing is done until something is official. Last thing I want is another May 2012. Do not want to see and hear of our administration being so confident that they feel they have something done, and then being knocked to the floor out of the blue. Obviously that time our administration was so far out of it that they had no clue as to even the emphasis being put on major markets, airports and convenience for other schools sending teams. All they would have had to do was to have read some of our postings. Nothing we do may help that, but to understand it a little helps in itself.

Nine months ago our administration thought we had a good chance of getting into CUSA. Confidence was pretty high. Come to find out even our one good CUSA friend had to give into the rest of the conference and UNCC got in instead of App State.

After these things it comes as great concern when we find out that evidently NMSU and Georgia Southern were working together to get each other into the Sun Belt. Implication is that they would both step on us to get where they want to be, the SB.

You talk about our administration being quiet on the subject - how has that worked out for us so far?
None of the schools can say anything basically, nothing different than any other time, but some fans of other schools do get hints, like some of us sometimes. However they sometimes make some mention of what they know. Perfect example, just fans talking, but you look at enough smoke you will sometimes find a fire.

"In your opinion is Benson putting this on hold or coming up with a new plan? Could he have put it on hold to tilt the balances of power to the Western schools? ex. (xSt.,LA LA, Monroe ect.)Western Kentucky going next to CUSA when Tulsa gets the invite to the BE? Thus allowing him to get the schools he wants rather than the schools some of the presidents there want. Seems to me that Troy is a big voice when it comes to the Sun Belt and doesn't agree with Benson's vision where as the Western schools see more eye to eye with Benson. Just throwing that out there."

The above at least indicates that NMSU fans believe Benson is being proactive in their favor.

Most of the time when a fan guarantees that something will happen, it doesn't. Everyone claims to have someone in the know. Just like NMSU fan guaranteeing them that NMSU would get an offer to the Sun Belt by the end of this week:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=242&f=2377&t=11276397

If our administration is covering all the bases, that's great. Didn't happen that way nine months ago though. They admitted as much after it happened. Hope they are at least paying attention to what information, or hint of information, is out there. Some of our fans will think we are a sure lock or some posters will attempt to make funny remarks about bits of information. There are some truths in all that smoke.

GoApps70 · Unread post by **GoApps70** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:26 am

GoAppsGo92 wrote:Have to agree with Firemoose.

I also think folks are reading too much into the dinner in Atlanta with officals from NMSU and GSU. While I have no doubt that GSU is in it for themselves, I also don't think there is much these two schools can do other than compare notes. They are both on the outside looking in, and I see no advantage to joining forces.

I have a heart for a particularly quiet conference too. Just had an opportunity to visit Harrisonburg, VA and was surprised by the similarities between ASU and JMU. Much better fit and finish of the campus and students than any existing team we play against in the SoCon. Academics and demographics make so much more sense with two other conferences that we have a chance at. Sunbelt with GaGa Southern will work, but I sure would like us to work every angle to try to forge something with the MAC or CUSA so that no stone is left unturned.

Why would NMSU want to work with GaSo, and how would that help?

Notice that the dinner reservation in Atlanta for NMSU and GaSo was for three. NMSU's AD took his assistant AD to the dinner with GaSo president. Mainly because the assistant AD, who had received a sports management degree from GaSo, had worked side by side with Karl Benson at several places for many years and knows him real well, and evidently talks to him on a regular basis.

GaSo was in the process of hiring a new AD at the time of that Atlanta meeting. NMSU AD may also have taken his assistant along to promote him as a GaSo replacement AD. Which might have helped NMSU and GaSo with working together.

Notice that they were sending other documents to each other. Some from different schools that had made contact with the Sun Belt or to or from Karl Benson. Imagine it helps to see what specific comments are made about a particular school or conference intentions. Easier to get a feel for what someone thinks about your school from a third party, or off the cuff remark. Especially if you have many sources. What someone tells you to your face may be completely different than what they mention to your friends or enemies about you.

This one meeting in Atlanta was supposed to be followed up by GaSo flying to New Mexico for other talks, we do not know what happened there, but was a lot of effort being made, a lot of time spent, and some expenses laid out. They were not doing it just to chit chat about the weather. They thought it would help and sounds as if the NMSU fans believe it did.

Remember that GaSo's current AD speaks directly with Karl Benson on a regular basis, at least once a week. Would think that all the information they gleaned from NMSU, and other correspondence and personal insights as to Benson's likes and dislikes have helped him at lot in attacking weak spots or even as talking subjects. Probably the same for NMSU.

ASUMountaineer · Unread post by **ASUMountaineer** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:49 am

GoApps70 wrote:
GoAppsGo92 wrote:Have to agree with Firemoose.

I also think folks are reading too much into the dinner in Atlanta with officals from NMSU and GSU. While I have no doubt that GSU is in it for themselves, I also don't think there is much these two schools can do other than compare notes. They are both on the outside looking in, and I see no advantage to joining forces.

I have a heart for a particularly quiet conference too. Just had an opportunity to visit Harrisonburg, VA and was surprised by the similarities between ASU and JMU. Much better fit and finish of the campus and students than any existing team we play against in the SoCon. Academics and demographics make so much more sense with two other conferences that we have a chance at. Sunbelt with GaGa Southern will work, but I sure would like us to work every angle to try to forge something with the MAC or CUSA so that no stone is left unturned.
Why would NMSU want to work with GaSo, and how would that help?

Notice that the dinner reservation in Atlanta for NMSU and GaSo was for three. NMSU's AD took his assistant AD to the dinner with GaSo president. Mainly because the assistant AD, who had received a sports management degree from GaSo, had worked side by side with Karl Benson at several places for many years and knows him real well, and evidently talks to him on a regular basis.

GaSo was in the process of hiring a new AD at the time of that Atlanta meeting. NMSU AD may also have taken his assistant along to promote him as a GaSo replacement AD. Which might have helped NMSU and GaSo with working together.

Notice that they were sending other documents to each other. Some from different schools that had made contact with the Sun Belt or to or from Karl Benson. Imagine it helps to see what specific comments are made about a particular school or conference intentions. Easier to get a feel for what someone thinks about your school from a third party, or off the cuff remark. Especially if you have many sources. What someone tells you to your face may be completely different than what they mention to your friends or enemies about you.

This one meeting in Atlanta was supposed to be followed up by GaSo flying to New Mexico for other talks, we do not know what happened there, but was a lot of effort being made, a lot of time spent, and some expenses laid out. They were not doing it just to chit chat about the weather. They thought it would help and sounds as if the NMSU fans believe it did.

Remember that GaSo's current AD speaks directly with Karl Benson on a regular basis, at least once a week. Would think that all the information they gleaned from NMSU, and other correspondence and personal insights as to Benson's likes and dislikes have helped him at lot in attacking weak spots or even as talking subjects. Probably the same for NMSU.

You have a lot of time on your hands, eh? Are you a private investigator in real life?

MountainMan · Unread post by **MountainMan** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:53 am

IMO, GaSo wants GaSo in the Sun Belt. They would prefer to see ASU in the Sun Belt over NMSU due to the rivalry history and better travel partner, but at the end of the day GaSo will work with whatever resources are available to enhance their chances of getting in an FBS conference, and they believe that the Sun Belt is most likely the only place they realistically can land in the current round of changes. They are not trying to "cut out" ASU, but they won't wait around with any other school (ASU or anyone else) that is not clear about their intentions.

Also, JMO, but I'm not convinced that ASU's administration is even sure anymore about what they want to do. I see no real benefit of the "cone of silence" that seems to have taken over recently. If we want to be FBS, a few public statements to strongly reinforce that would be beneficial, I think. I do know there are at least a couple of ASU administrators (not at all sure about "the very top") that specifically don't want a move to the Sun Belt (it's "beneath" us). I still think ASU ends up in the Sun Belt, and an announcement comes in the next few months, but who knows. The silence bothers me.

firemoose · Unread post by **firemoose** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:00 am

None of my remarks were directed at nine months ago. Everything I talked about was in reference to today. Mistakes were made then and admitted to, as you stated. Those mistakes are not being made this time. We are being as proactive, although privately, as any other school out there. As much as people like to think the adminstration is full of a bunch of idiots (and in some cases it's true) they have learned from their mistakes, at least in this situation. The only one I wish they would stop is the silence thing. I want as much information out there as possible but that's not yours or my decision. We can't change what happened nine months ago any more than we can affect the decision right now. I'm sorry if it's difficult to accept but some things are completely out of our hands. We can only fight as hard as we can and hope it is enough. This situation is still developing and will be fluid for several years to come. Major moves will NOT start until the whole Maryland v ACC case is decided. That one case will decide the entire future of D-I football. Until that happens only small moves will be made. A conference might pick a couple here and one there to position themselves but the rest are waiting to hear some small indication of what direction that case is going to take. We continue to make our calls and keep in contact with every conference but we have to wait right along with the rest.

You'll notice I haven't said what I think is going to happen. Personally, based on observations, all signs are pointing to a move up with an announcement well before June 1st. Where we stay will be determined when the case is decided. But this is just an opinion. What is happening today is not what is going to be happening tomorrow, or the day after. And until this runaway train either jumps the tracks or is brought to a safe stop we will not know.

Kgfish · Unread post by **Kgfish** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:38 am

One would certainly hope Brad Wilson, James Deal, and John Blackburn would encourage the rest of the UNC Board of Governors to have UNCC push for ASU as ODU did JMU.

moehler · Unread post by **moehler** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:38 pm

you have to wonder how much behind the sceens politics is going on at the state level to help us move up. It makes sense that the NC politicians, including the governor, would want us in conference USA, becouse of the revenue that would be generated having a rivary with UNCC. I hope Peacock has been making trips to Raleigh, and putting pressure on the politcians to help us move up.