Discussion with App alums

[vegattk]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

Oh Veg...I thought I knew you. So disappointed...

Maybe I've just never had them cooked right... My parents ARE from the Mid-West and I don't think that Pinto beans are on their palette.

[BeauFoster]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

Oh Veg...I thought I knew you. So disappointed...

Maybe I've just never had them cooked right... My parents ARE from the Mid-West and I don't think that Pinto beans are on their palette.

Cooked right? All you do is put em in the crock pot with a little onion! Jeeze!

[AppSt94]

Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint. Are you upset that App is moving to the Sun Belt, that you weren't allowed enough input on the decision or both?

You acknowledge that with the way the NCAA landscape is changing, App had to do something. If you did not like the SoCon and you do not like the Sun Belt, what would you have had them do?

Our options were stay put, go to the CAA or go to the Sun Belt. Both of those conferences would mean an increase in travel, while another FCS conference would not have provided an increase in revenue now that the CAA has been gutted into a one-bid basketball league.

App spent several years groveling at the feet of C-USA to no avail because we do not offer a media market. If the administration continued down that road, it would have meant a long-term stay in the SoCon. C-USA was not going to invite an FCS App State, especially with our lone cheerleader having left for the AAC.

It is just frustrating to continually see pictures of our program being flushed down the toilet, 'Sun Belch' logos of the one FBS conference who gave App a chance to play FBS football and "I reserve the right to say I told you so". The decision has been made and the program needs our support. Reserving the right to say "I told you so" could very well be a self-fulfilling prophecy if enough of our fans get on board with that thinking. Very counterproductive at this point.

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

So you coined the phrase SmallCon and now have come with the Sun Belch. It appears that it would be impossible to come to a decision that appeases you.

[Maddog1956]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

Oh Veg...I thought I knew you. So disappointed...

Maybe I've just never had them cooked right... My parents ARE from the Mid-West and I don't think that Pinto beans are on their palette.

If you don't have a born southern natural taste for them, try hot sauce!

[Kgfish]

Doug. I agree with you to a point. But we have to be careful that you guys in the "let's play big-boy football" camp don't rewrite history at the expense of the truth. Most of us know that there was no survey, but there are some who will read a reckless, inaccurate post like the one above and take it as fact.

Try Gene. I am pro FBS I'm but not in the "let's play big-boy football" at all cost camp. I have my concerns with the Sun Belt move. Everyone knows that isn't going to change so people need to stop the complaining and get behind it. Do you know for certain there was no survey or are you going on what someone who "knows" there wasn't one done told you? I was not asked to give an opinion but that doesn't mean one wasn't done. My status is not lofty enough to be in that focus group.

[AppGrad78]

Who's this Gene dude you're talking about, Doug?

[firemoose]

Doug. I agree with you to a point. But we have to be careful that you guys in the "let's play big-boy football" camp don't rewrite history at the expense of the truth. Most of us know that there was no survey, but there are some who will read a reckless, inaccurate post like the one above and take it as fact.

Try Gene. I am pro FBS I'm but not in the "let's play big-boy football" at all cost camp. I have my concerns with the Sun Belt move. Everyone knows that isn't going to change so people need to stop the complaining and get behind it. Do you know for certain there was no survey or are you going on what someone who "knows" there wasn't one done told you? I was not asked to give an opinion but that doesn't mean one wasn't done. My status is not lofty enough to be in that focus group.

Just curious Fish...Were you Gene Gene The Dancing Machine on App Fan?

[GoAppsGo92]

Doug. I agree with you to a point. But we have to be careful that you guys in the "let's play big-boy football" camp don't rewrite history at the expense of the truth. Most of us know that there was no survey, but there are some who will read a reckless, inaccurate post like the one above and take it as fact.

Try Gene. I am pro FBS I'm but not in the "let's play big-boy football" at all cost camp. I have my concerns with the Sun Belt move. Everyone knows that isn't going to change so people need to stop the complaining and get behind it. Do you know for certain there was no survey or are you going on what someone who "knows" there wasn't one done told you? I was not asked to give an opinion but that doesn't mean one wasn't done. My status is not lofty enough to be in that focus group.

The executive summary in the feasibility report clearly states studies and focus group data were used. The methodology is not stated, but its an executive summary, not a full blown report. The report has been released to the public for review since 2011. Plenty of time to challenge the findings of the task force and demand an accounting. I will gladly take the position where I use the findings of this group of esteemed individuals no matter if 78 thinks it is "reckless" or not.

The conclusion doesn't fit his narrative, so he rejects it, and resorts to calling me essentially untruthful and reckless.

[GoAppsGo92]

This thread has went several directions, but I thought I'd hit a few points.

1) App Alums - I have talked with several alum's (yosef supporters from club boxes, stadium lot and down) and non-yosef supporters and most were happy with the status quo. That should be expected we had lived at the top for several years. Most would not have chosen CUSA as their first (realistic) choice if we did move up. Most don't like the current footprint for the SB and they don't like the travel times (the ones that go to games). They do however see what the SonCon has become however and are more acceptable that we had to move. Most have resigned to that fact that something had to happen. They would like to add JMU or Liberty so we can have a another close game. They are excited about having more games on TV and the opportunity for OOC games with other FBS teams including ECU, ACC, etc. Most would like to also schedule WCU and UNCC. I've not heard anyone say they would support APP less! They might if the team sucks, but I that's always the case. (See Duke football, no crazies there). Students seems to be all over the place and get a lot of their opinion from their parents about it or don't care.

2) Unless they get crazy with the student fees no one will care! They raise tuition all the time and everyone only notices the bottom line. I have two girls at App now and $50, $100, $200 is not going to change my value of an APP eduction and I can't believe it would change anyones. I'm not rich, but there is so many other cost to consider (and sources of income, loans, job, grants, etc) that totally outweighs this. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

If you're choosing a school based on a $100-$400/year decision, I think you're missing the boat anyway. If it was a major issue for a lot of students WCU would be packing them in and they're not (one of my girls went to WCU for a year so i know the cost different). BTW, $100 per semester = for 17,000 students is $3.4 million. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

3) Almost "ALL" APP supporters are a fan of another team(s). We had to be if we ever wanted someone to pull for in college. They might not be diehard fans, but they have another team they pull for (and post on facebook). Plus many grew up with these other teams, it's a family team in some cases. However I do think APP supporters are a loyal bunch and the seats are full because of it and our success. I'm seeing more APP stuff now than anytime since I graduated (early 80'). Pretty good since it doesn't say NC in the name and that's the reason a lot of ppl wear UNC and NCSU stuff. I also think that as we start competing at a higher level with some of these other teams we'll see more "APP only" fans, but it really doesn't matter. It's just like a child, having another one doesn't mean you love the first one less. After all who wants to go through March Madness without a team to pull for?

Just my 2 cents, mileage may vary...

I think that your post is good, probably your best post to date.

I do want to address the bold part. I typically just pull against particular teams when it comes to March.

I've never completely understood the argument about competing for fan support. All I want from AppState students, alumni, and friends is to think of AppState in their giving and to buy tickets in support of our program. And, for the most part, they have... being number 1 in attendance years after our national championship run proves the love and loyalty is there. Gaining access to the highest level of play will give AppState more of a chance to build that broad appeal that we continue to enjoy. We are an easy team to be a fan of, in my opinion... and I am confident that we will continue to be as well.

[yosefederation]

To the people who think our fans wouldn't show up to the Holmes if we played UNC. I believe a certain UNC coach said he would never bring another team back to Boone to play basketball because of how his team was treated by the fans. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that was a long time ago.

That was Doherty, opening night of Holmes in 2000 cause our students were throwing cups of ice on the floor. That night I would say an ugly 40 percent of the fans were pulling for UNC.

Sat 3 rows behind unc bench. Your comment / memory is fun folklore, however not true. APP faithful definitely had some boo birds during intros, myself included, but the only ice thrown was towards Lang after a hard foul on Tyson Patterson, late in 2nd half,by a couple of students. How tall was the giant in your beanstalk story. lol

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

Oh Veg...I thought I knew you. So disappointed...

Maybe I've just never had them cooked right... My parents ARE from the Mid-West and I don't think that Pinto beans are on their palette.

Oy vey!

[ASUMountaineer]

FBS football is no pinto beans.

I'd call it a t-bone steak and the FCS starvation.

The SEC is an angus fillet.

The SEC would be Kobe Steak with a truffle-mushroom risotto washed down with a cold home-made hefeweizen while Kate Upton gives you a back massage...

Kudos for stopping there...

[appmandan]

To the people who think our fans wouldn't show up to the Holmes if we played UNC. I believe a certain UNC coach said he would never bring another team back to Boone to play basketball because of how his team was treated by the fans. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that was a long time ago.

That was Doherty, opening night of Holmes in 2000 cause our students were throwing cups of ice on the floor. That night I would say an ugly 40 percent of the fans were pulling for UNC.

Sat 3 rows behind unc bench. Your comment / memory is fun folklore, however not true. APP faithful definitely had some boo birds during intros, myself included, but the only ice thrown was towards Lang after a hard foul on Tyson Patterson, late in 2nd half,by a couple of students. How tall was the giant in your beanstalk story. lol

I hope now that we are FBS the attitude changes, but if/when UNC or State come to Kidd Brewer I wouldn't be suprised if you saw people on the home side wearing two sets of colors, and I base that off of this very game in 2000. It was my first college game as a student and I was so excited that it was going to be UNC (the bain of my existance). Only to get to the game to see students with a black and gold pom-pom in one hand, and a baby blue and white one in the other, and cheering after every basket scored. Stupidest thing I ever saw and it soured me from ever going back to another b-ball game. I think I went to 4 other games in my years on the mountain.

Sorry for the random rant and I hope I don't start another "show us your fanhood" discussion, but it just killed me to see ASU students, even the small handful that it was, wearing UNC hats and having UNC colors in the student section. I don't care if people are fans of other schools in other conferences. I pull for the schools my family went to, and they pull for App in return. But when App is on the field they come first and they always will. I sure as heck am not showing up to a contest with an ASU shirt on and another school's hat on my head. Ain't happenin. I will be now and always all in for ASU.

[Gonzo]

Things have changed since 2000.

Kidd Brewer averaged 17k. App had 13,000 students. The culture was different.

[appmandan]

Things have changed since 2000.

Kidd Brewer averaged 17k. App had 13,000 students. The culture was different.

Point well taken. I got the culture has changed in 13 years. I should of articulated my point better. Those peeps in 2000 that were in the student section with me are now alums, and just like myself weren't around for the culture change of which you speak. My point is now that we're FBS I hope the "small school/big school" mentality that still exists (I'm sure) with my generation and the generations before changes.

[Kgfish]

Doug. I agree with you to a point. But we have to be careful that you guys in the "let's play big-boy football" camp don't rewrite history at the expense of the truth. Most of us know that there was no survey, but there are some who will read a reckless, inaccurate post like the one above and take it as fact.

Try Gene. I am pro FBS I'm but not in the "let's play big-boy football" at all cost camp. I have my concerns with the Sun Belt move. Everyone knows that isn't going to change so people need to stop the complaining and get behind it. Do you know for certain there was no survey or are you going on what someone who "knows" there wasn't one done told you? I was not asked to give an opinion but that doesn't mean one wasn't done. My status is not lofty enough to be in that focus group.

Just curious Fish...Were you Gene Gene The Dancing Machine on App Fan?

That would be me! New format won't let me use the entire name any longer. Gong Show and Chuck Barris is one of my all time favorites. Since we share the name Gene (the g in Kgfish) he was my favorite guest.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gen ... FORM=VIRE2

[Kgfish]

Who's this Gene dude you're talking about, Doug?

Who is this Doug dude you are talking about AppGrad78?

[AppGrad78]

Doug, no need to pretend with us. We're all friends. There's no shame in coming back to this board.

Your ... er ... distinctive perspective on all things related to Appalachian is a dead giveaway.

Welcome back.

[bcoach]

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

And yours is the most selfish argument ever! Lets say my daughter is offered a promotion to a job in London, making more money than she does now, for a well-respected company. She's wanted the opportunity since the day she could read. It will most likely lead to bigger and better things. I'd be the worst father in the world to selfishly say "You can't go - I have to have you close by so that I can see you whenever I choose."

That's your argument. And it's total crap.

Try again because your example is really bad.

[MountainMan]

I am pro FBS I'm but not in the "let's play big-boy football" at all cost camp.

Nice concise summary of where I think a good number of fans are.

If one has really watched the world of FCS and the exit of so many former rivals, and the downgrading of the exposure of FCS games and playoffs on TV (ESPN), while simultaneously watching the growth of ASU in terms of student population and regional recognition, it's just hard for me to see how staying in the declining environment of FCS football can be in the best interests of ASU as an institution. Also, I think it's a misunderstanding from some folks that think ASU is expecting to compete with Ohio State and Florida and Alabama in 2015 or even 2020; and maybe beyond. The lower level of FBS is the most logical "fit" for ASU now, and who knows what the long-term future holds.