Howard Attendance

[EastHallApp]

Why are some of you so dead set against talking about expansion? When Gillin took the job he said there would be a comprehensive study done on how to enhance and expand KBS. So we know expansion will come at some point. What we don't know is how much we owe on the previous expansion in which we spent way more money than we should have (thanks Cobb), and what factors Gillin will use to determine the appropriate time to start expansion.

To me the best course of action is to get our plan together, and start a fund raising campaign asap. We may not need the seats at this moment, but there will be a time that we do. We also know the track needs to be moved first. Saying we need to wait until X goal is met really binds us. People need to see a vision of what the future of KBS will be if we want to get donations coming in. Last time we built started building seats before we had money raised because we had nowhere to put fans for each game. It would be a mistake to wait that long again.

Again, I'm fine with all of that. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone say they are opposed to long-term planning. I certainly haven't. I HAVE seen people saying we should be expanding now based on our current attendance levels, which are leaving thousands of seats unsold for every game. That's what I disagree with.

I will say it again, I'd rather have some fans go without tickets for a couple years because we waited to see the demand than spend a ton of money to add supply where no demand exists and play in front of 10,000 empty seats every game.

[Appftw]

My problem with your logic is that you're basing it largely on the last two years of attendance which has been the most anomalous stretch of App football in 20 years. If you take a more long-term view of our historical success and the trajectory of our program it's not outlandish. When we start winning again you won't have a leg to stand on. "LOL"

And my problem with your "logic" is that you assume we are going to see the attendance like we did from 05-09, you can't assume those things and when you do that's when major mistakes are made. It's a simple business model. You act like not winning was the ONLY factor in determining the drop in attendance, when several other factors come into play. Don't get me wrong, I hope I don't have a leg to stand on but at this point I have 2 very sturdy legs I'm standing on.

We went 4-8 and our avg. attendance dropped 3k. Stop the ship! Reverse Course!

Sorry buddy, but the expansion plans have been on the table for years already. It's gonna happen. It's actually already a line item in the budget for 2019.

Yeah you're not breaking any news. 4 years out we hopefully will be ready to expand. At this point, after one game of decent attendance, we are not. I'm fine with expanding, it's just not needed at this point, as I have been saying, buddy. Oh and we have no money to do this right now, kind of a big deal, no?

Well then why are you arguing in circles with me like a sarcastic, condescending 4 year old? I said in one of my first posts that "2018 or so" should be the time. The Campaign for Appalachian addressed at least some of the debt from the previous expansion so I don't believe you and your assessment of our coffers.

[Yosef10]

My problem with your logic is that you're basing it largely on the last two years of attendance which has been the most anomalous stretch of App football in 20 years. If you take a more long-term view of our historical success and the trajectory of our program it's not outlandish. When we start winning again you won't have a leg to stand on. "LOL"

And my problem with your "logic" is that you assume we are going to see the attendance like we did from 05-09, you can't assume those things and when you do that's when major mistakes are made. It's a simple business model. You act like not winning was the ONLY factor in determining the drop in attendance, when several other factors come into play. Don't get me wrong, I hope I don't have a leg to stand on but at this point I have 2 very sturdy legs I'm standing on.

We went 4-8 and our avg. attendance dropped 3k. Stop the ship! Reverse Course!

Sorry buddy, but the expansion plans have been on the table for years already. It's gonna happen. It's actually already a line item in the budget for 2019.

Yeah you're not breaking any news. 4 years out we hopefully will be ready to expand. At this point, after one game of decent attendance, we are not. I'm fine with expanding, it's just not needed at this point, as I have been saying, buddy. Oh and we have no money to do this right now, kind of a big deal, no?

Well then why are you arguing in circles with me like a sarcastic, condescending 4 year old? I said in one of my first posts that "2018 or so" should be the time. The Campaign for Appalachian addressed at least some of the debt from the previous expansion so I don't believe you and your assessment of our coffers.

I'm just simply a little amazed you don't understand a basic economic principle. No I didn't scroll through to reference your comment of "2018 or so". Still might not be necessary at that time either. And as I said before: a competent AD will have a plan in place, but that doesn't mean it should be acted on after one game, as other on this board have implied

[Appftw]

Thankfully we have people with more vision and business experience than yourself running the athletic department or we never would have gotten the first 50 million dollar expansion (which was planned well before 05-09 happened). I know that was controversial initially as well but our program has not gone bankrupt yet or even hit hard times.

[Yosef10]

Thankfully we have people with more vision and business experience than yourself running the athletic department or we never would have gotten the first 50 million dollar expansion (which was planned well before 05-09 happened). I know that was controversial initially as well but our program has not gone bankrupt yet or even hit hard times.

Haha ok. I'm sorry you don't understand a telling sign of the need for expanding is season ticket sales and ours have decreased. It really is simple math man. Once we show the need for expansion I'm sure Gillin will get us started. Our home opener that wasn't even full won't signal that need.

[Appftw]

Why would you put your future plans on indefinite hold because you experience one or two down years??? That is the definition of a knee-jerk reaction. Season ticket sales have not been down for more than one or two years, but you've gone full chicken little on us. I'd be willing to bet that Gillin is already exploring his options for that 2018-2019 fiscal year, much to your chagrin I'm sure.

[EastHallApp]

[Appftw]

Sorry bout that, I've edited that bit out now, but I was tired of the passive aggressive "pal"s and "bud"s that this guy kept throwing out. I think it grew out of the feeling that there's been a very different tone to this message board for the past couple of years. There seems to be a feeling pervading this forum that "rah rah" fans are naïve maroons who aren't "realistic" about the prospects of our program. Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. If we can get our alumni base engaged and donating at even a semi-respectable clip our potential would be enormous.

[moehler]

somethings we can all agree on, first, unless something dramatic happens, expansion is going to happen, not a matter of if but when. Second, we can all agree that before the first crane is brought in, there will be a master plan, and a timeline to raise the money. I have full confidence in this administration, that this expansion will be thought out carefully. The questions to me are, 1. if we are looking at for example, a 5 year project, when will the project start, and 2. how will they raise the money. I think the wild card in this thing, is moving the track, so we can have a pure football stadium, we keep hearing about the old high school as a potential site, and that would solve a lot of problems, but coming up with the cash to buy the property seems out of reach right now. My biggest concern is we don't have a lot of time before we need to start, we aren't Alabama, we cant just write a check and start construction tomarrow, I think, we are looking at a minimum 3 year project, from fundraising to construction, if we want to get this done, by 2020 we need to start now.

[TheMoody1]

I worked in an athletic department, I know how these things work guys, I promise

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn last night too?

[NewApp]

$37.00 a ticket, plus handling fee, discourages some with families, especially when you add in motel and restaurant costs. The motels raise charges when there is a home game in Boone.

Ticket prices have barely gone up over the past 4 years. I seriously doubt $20 more for tickets is keeping any family away if they were willing to pay for all the other factors you mentioned. With gas prices being lower now a good bit of that ticket cost is off set. You act like prices doubled in two years.

I haven't kept record, but roughly forty dollars a ticket is a lot of money for a family of four. $160, and then add in motel costs which, as I said, are exorbitant in the Boone area.

[NewApp]

Why would you put your future plans on indefinite hold because you experience one or two down years??? That is the definition of a knee-jerk reaction. Season ticket sales have not been down for more than one or two years, but you've gone full chicken little on us. I'd be willing to bet that Gillin is already exploring his options for that 2018-2019 fiscal year, much to your chagrin I'm sure.

Let's finish paying for what we have done first.

[Yosef10]

Sorry bout that, I've edited that bit out now, but I was tired of the passive aggressive "pal"s and "bud"s that this guy kept throwing out. I think it grew out of the feeling that there's been a very different tone to this message board for the past couple of years. There seems to be a feeling pervading this forum that "rah rah" fans are naïve maroons who aren't "realistic" about the prospects of our program. Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. If we can get our alumni base engaged and donating at even a semi-respectable clip our potential would be enormous.

Well I didn't happen to catch what you said before you edited it but I believe you were the first person to throw out a "buddy"....so I don't know what to do with that one. If you're referring not to me when you say "realistic" yes I am. Realistically I believe we could be a boise sooner than later. Not sure if that tells you anything about my level of "rah rah"-ness and naivety. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on the timeline and need of stadium expansion.

[Appftw]

I think you should reread your gem of a post that started with "LOOOOOLLLLL". "Pal". I'm done arguing in circles with you and you putting words in my mouth.

[AppDawg]

If we can get our alumni base engaged and donating at even a semi-respectable clip our potential would be enormous.

And that sums it up right there. I have been hearing this since I started following App in '99. The problem is still there and needs to be tapped into. Small dollars over a large base adds up. The thing is, its appears to be all talk on the MMB and no results or apparent/visible actions made by YOSEF or athletics (outside of the $200M Campaign for Appalahian). Yes, there was an increase giving during the title runs, but I venture to say a lot of that increase was current donors upping their giving levels to maintain on campus Gameday parking.

[App1990]

Given the announced attendance is far greater than actual attendance, using the numbers to justify expansion is disingenuous (and wrong). The facts are that, while its nice to dream (especially with other people's (students) money) and its possible we will need expansion in the future, we are not even close to that point. As fans, we can be fanatical--i.e., crazy. But any AD pushing that agenda at this point should be fired.

It is better to have a full stadium every time and turn people away a few times than it be partially empty every time and full only a few times. It's better to have the situation of Cameron Indoor Stadium than the Dean Dome. And considering the downward trend in attendance across the board, which will continue, it would make no sense to bet against this reality. It would be smart to invest in things that would actually lead to success on the field not on physical space we don't need. Plus, students are still paying off the last expansion and they will be asked to continue to pay for the added cost of moving to the Sun Belt. So, in either event, we shouldn't expand unless the fans are willing to pay for it instead of putting it on the students.

[clemmonsapp]

I love the little old App fans. We can't because we're just little old App. We will only have 12,000 at the game because we schedule bad and the students won't show and we're little old App. The numbers can't be right because I saw empty seats and I know better than the ticket folks at little old App. What a joke these folks are.

We had over double the attendance the "experts" on here predicted with over 24,000 folks. That with a long weekend when students could go home and a forecast of rain! (Oh, I forgot, tourists coming to the mountains who don't support App, and don't have parking or tickets are going to flood the place for an FCS opponent:lol: ). It was a blast. The team played well, the crowd was great, and we saw the best HOF class ever at App!

Sure we may fall flat on our face (to make your negative projections a reality - yay for you), but we still need to be in full expansion planning mode and major upgrade mode! We have huge untapped potential and we will never meet it with the negative approach of some of you people.

How about this for a shake up? Move the track - enclose the end zone where the temp bleachers are snug to the field and above the old field house - fill in the hill end but leave a hill that comes close to the end zone on that end - make a plaza on the filled in area with more restrooms, upgraded concessions, interactive areas for kids - maybe an enclosed area with raised platforms and a bar - then.... cover the east stands in U. Washington fashion to help with sun, snow, and rain (I sat there for two seasons and the sun is as bad as Gonzo stated. With 3:30 starts you can't see the field for about 45 minutes even with sun glasses and the sunburns are epic)

Suck on that doom and gloom crowd! Go App

[bigdaddyg]

I was at the Coastal Carolina game years ago when the announced attendance was about 31K. I actually sat trying to see where exactly 7K or so people were sitting, standing. I simply don't believe we had that many butts in the place.

[clemmonsapp]

I don't think we landed on the moon.

[ASU03]

I was very impressed with Saturday's crowd, especially the students. I pray we push 30,000 a few times this year. If we do I think expansion should be discussed in the near future.