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Ponce Speculation

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NattyBumppo'sRevenge
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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by NattyBumppo'sRevenge » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:53 pm

I look at Ponce as a Freshman OC this past year. He wasn’t bad, but has room for improvement and he has yet to reach his potential. He should be much better next year. There was no room for improvement from TP and the players didn’t like him. The game has passed him and he’s not willing to change. He’s already gone from the next job. I pity the next team he lands with.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:59 pm

WASU 93 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:09 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:32 am
WASU 93 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:48 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:06 am
bigdaddyg wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:16 am
Do you think that there are coordinators at schools who know what they are doing, put in good game plans and call plays but look down on the field and say to themselves- “god this team stinks, doesn’t have enough talent and can’t execute these plays?” Fans watch their team and often expect a miracle worker to transform the players on the roster into some juggernaut. We bitch and moan because a run play on 3rd and 5 was called instead of a sure fire pass that would have worked. You have to think that a coordinator worth his salt calls a play based on the defense in front of him and fully expects those 11 players to execute. Guess it doesn’t always work out that way and sometimes the stud we think we have isn’t as good as the dude lining up in front of him.
Some coordinators think that for sure but we had talent. Not all teams do. I think some fans can often have lofty expectations but it doesn’t always mean a group is wrong when they complain about a certain OC. His firing from Illinois, and reasons I heard offline, in just a year was confirmation of the things we had happen. He isn’t the worst ever but we could get better for sure. Many of his issues were during the week as well and Illinois dealt with it.

I remember some on here, and 247, gloated that Tony must not be that bad because Illinois hired him but they are quiet now. He didn’t last long just like many of us expected.
I'm not going to defend Petersen in any way, but I think you have to take 2020 for what it was worth. Just like Petersen didn't mesh with our offense, Chase Brice and David Cutliffe (who has a reputation of working well with QB's) did not work last season. Brice mentioned during a podcast that it was a really hard year because there was not a normal amount of practice repetitions leading up to the season and that there was the constant COVID distractions, meeting room protocols, etc.

In our program, add to that three coaching staffs in three years, a revolving door at TE due to injury last season, WR (including no Corey Sutton and an injured Hennigan for half the season) and three different starting RB's last year (Marcus Williams, Harrington, and Peoples) and the year was chaotic.

Hopefully, we keep Ponce next year, because there should be improvement in play calling due of the consistency of having a second year with Brice and the receiving corps (yes, there will be branch new starters, but they have been on the practice field and in meetings together), plus all four running backs are back. Not only does this affect play calling, it also affects the ability to make an adjustment at the line of scrimmage. While it's not college football, the TD that the Chiefs scored in OT this week was not the called play. Travis Kelce communicated to Patrick Mahomes that he was going to run a different pattern and the result was a game winner. Familiarity in an offense can lead to that type of success.

With that said, the numbers that Miami is willing to pay it's OC is nearly 5 times Ponce's current salary (and much more than a typical Sun Belt HC makes). If our assistant coaches are successful, there are always going to be bigger opportunities for them.
My issue with the excuses for 2020 is that some teams did win their league despite the weird year so throw that out. Injuries are fair to bring up and they hurt. Pretty sure our players are glad TP is gone regardless.

I’m with you on Ponce and understand if he leaves. That is a lot of money. I just don’t want to hear the different OCs in different years excuse if he goes. We need a coach who fully believes in our QB as a good OV can win with Burger, if he is good. Hiring an OC who disrupts the continuity of what we want in a QB or who doesn’t like Burger would be a mistake.
I haven't researched it, but was there more success from teams in 2020 that had more stability? For instance, Napier and Levi Lewis did not have the changes that App had. Again, not making excuses (I'd rather have Ponce), but sometimes we as fans tend to view all situations as equal.
That would actually be an interesting study but even stat studies aren't always equal because talent for example can influence results. A team who retained their staff but was a 3 win team in 2019 and then won just 4 in 2020 still was not good but they retained their coaches so instances like that might influence it.

I would rather have Ponce as well but I do expect to see some growth from him and all indications are that he is willing to listen. We return our OC and QB but if we are down in production in 2021 will a few people on here jump to defend the fact we lost so many super seniors? Everything won't be perfect every year. You won't return 9-10 starters, OC, HC, etc all the time and the best programs are the ones who replace players or coaches and maintain success.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:03 pm

MtnMan14 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:08 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:15 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:01 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:33 pm


If you don't think running players away from the game isn't a big issue, that is on you. There are at least 3 all-conference players that chose to not come back because of Petersen. Additionally, this wasn't Petersen's first rodeo.

Ponce, while he is a genius in game planning, was a rookie play caller. Petersen was not.

Petersen single handily ruined the game for several players. Ponce did the exact opposite. That is as big, if not bigger, than calling the Xs and Os.
I get your point and I respect your opinion, as you have a unique vantage point of the game. My point is that no one would be complaining about him if we had won those games last year. There aren’t many on this board that care about problems behind the curtain if we are winning. And as I am sure that you have more contact with people inside the program than I, I can appreciate the feedback that you have gotten. I can say however, that not everyone within the program shares you sentiments.
Ponce certainly isn't perfect. There are things "behind the curtain" that some are unhappy about with him. The difference is two fold -- Ponce is willing to listen and make changes based on feedback.

The second part of the fold is the most important part -- not once did a player have to meet with Clark and say "I am not playing another game for Ponce." That was a daily occurrence under Petersen.
Question(s). If players were in with Clark on a daily occurrence, as you suggest, stating that they weren’t playing another game for Peterson. 1) why didn’t Clark make a move sooner? 2) why did they keep showing up and performing? and 3) why didn’t Clark bench them?

Look, I get that players want to feel heard. But telling your coach that you aren’t going to play for the guy anymore is borderline, “inmates running the asylum.”

Last post on this because it a pointless argument. I get that this is Frank’s 1st year calling the plays. But c’mon. He has lived and breathed this offense for too many years to not have gleaned from Satt how to call a game. He has pretty much been on the headset with Satt to understand what needs to be called.
I don’t post here a ton, but man I’m glad you’re not my supervisor. Anyone who is a professional in any career knows that sitting in a meetings and learning and working behind the scenes is entirely different than being promoted and being the guy calling the shots. Everyone grows into a new position and there is always a learning curve no matter the level of exposure. You’re always going to encounter things as the shot caller that you might not have anticipated or even realized were possibilities as the guy observing. I know that nobody will ever be good enough for the unrealistic folks on this board, but for a first year guy he did a hell of a job. And on top of that, he took responsibility for his shortcomings and I’m sure is doing whatever he can this off-season to progress and be better.
I'm with you on this. Some are totally unfair to expect 12 wins every year and Ponce might have learned under Satt but it is indeed true that being the decision maker is much different than being the star pupil under them. I have been in that situation when I am helping the person making the decisions and then in chair making those same decisions and it is much different when you have to make those calls yourself.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by hapapp » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:23 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:08 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:15 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:01 pm
AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:33 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:26 pm
I get that TP was not a cultural fit. I get that players were frustrated. Yada yada.
If you don't think running players away from the game isn't a big issue, that is on you. There are at least 3 all-conference players that chose to not come back because of Petersen. Additionally, this wasn't Petersen's first rodeo.

Ponce, while he is a genius in game planning, was a rookie play caller. Petersen was not.

Petersen single handily ruined the game for several players. Ponce did the exact opposite. That is as big, if not bigger, than calling the Xs and Os.
I get your point and I respect your opinion, as you have a unique vantage point of the game. My point is that no one would be complaining about him if we had won those games last year. There aren’t many on this board that care about problems behind the curtain if we are winning. And as I am sure that you have more contact with people inside the program than I, I can appreciate the feedback that you have gotten. I can say however, that not everyone within the program shares you sentiments.
Ponce certainly isn't perfect. There are things "behind the curtain" that some are unhappy about with him. The difference is two fold -- Ponce is willing to listen and make changes based on feedback.

The second part of the fold is the most important part -- not once did a player have to meet with Clark and say "I am not playing another game for Ponce." That was a daily occurrence under Petersen.
Question(s). If players were in with Clark on a daily occurrence, as you suggest, stating that they weren’t playing another game for Peterson. 1) why didn’t Clark make a move sooner? 2) why did they keep showing up and performing? and 3) why didn’t Clark bench them?

Look, I get that players want to feel heard. But telling your coach that you aren’t going to play for the guy anymore is borderline, “inmates running the asylum.”

Last post on this because it a pointless argument. I get that this is Frank’s 1st year calling the plays. But c’mon. He has lived and breathed this offense for too many years to not have gleaned from Satt how to call a game. He has pretty much been on the headset with Satt to understand what needs to be called.
This! First. I'm glad we have Ponce. Clearly, Peterson wasn't a good fit. However, the notion that Ponce was a rookie OC and Peterson was experienced as way to explain the statistical differences falls flat. It was Peterson who was the rookie in our system, not Ponce. Moreover, the weapons at FP's expense were greater. Of course, the game is more than stats and the locker room is important. I would rather have our players playing for a coach they want to play for.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by BambooRdApp » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 am

I see both sides of the argument here on both coaches. Yes, Ponce was in the system historically. However, it can be different when you are the President versus being the VP...and being president for the first time....I do believe that there was a learning process to adjust scheme to fit Chase talents given that running is not his strength. As we progressed later in the season, teams adapted to us and our more down the field passing and not have shorter and intermediate routes or maybe an emergency out if a team blitzed...or adjustments in the running games. whatever the tendencies that they may have identified from earlier in the season. I did not feel we adjusted our game. Yes, we won the conference games other than LaLa regular season, however, Marshall, CCU and LaLa were earlier in the regular season. The opponents later in the year we were supposed to win and it seemed we struggled for a half or so in some games. Maybe due to being a first year coordinator or being stubborn. We shall see how our OC develops this year.

On Peterson, there is no excuse for not learning our system our calls, etc. If this is true..IMO. We are who we were out n 2020 with that team. 3 or 4 year QB, experienced receiving corp,. especially in a year that was a covid year. Easier for one to adjust (a coach) versus the 11 on the field especially with revolving players given CV19 protocols.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:42 am

Honestly, I have to call BS on TP not learning the verbiage, system stuff that was suggested early on. While I get that he may have been difficult to play for, Clark can act as somewhat of a conduit and smooth things over. Now if he is five games in and is truly struggling to understand the verbiage or hasn’t bothered to learn it and nothing was done at that time, that is a Clark problem.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by Appstate88 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:10 am

On another note... Looks like Trey Money (App State Football Support Staff) is headed to South Carolina.
GIVE 'EM HELL APPS!

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:21 am

Appstate88 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:10 am
On another note... Looks like Trey Money (App State Football Support Staff) is headed to South Carolina.
Solid move for him. I could see him back here at some point.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppStateNews » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:50 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:42 am
Honestly, I have to call BS on TP not learning the verbiage, system stuff that was suggested early on. While I get that he may have been difficult to play for, Clark can act as somewhat of a conduit and smooth things over. Now if he is five games in and is truly struggling to understand the verbiage or hasn’t bothered to learn it and nothing was done at that time, that is a Clark problem.
There's a reason two other coaches got involved in the play calling.... It was a problem Clark needed to address. And he did. Perhaps too late, but it was addressed.
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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by appstate24 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:21 am

Hearing rumors that Miami is hiring Michigan’s Josh Gattis as OC. Hopefully that means we can focus on spring ball and Ponce’s 2nd year running the offense.

If I remember correctly Gattis interviewed for our HC job, before we hired Drink.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by T-Dog » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:37 pm

Some App fans were convinced that Gattis was going to be the App head coach even when he was recruiting with Saban as he was at Bama at the time.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:36 pm

And he torched Michigan on his way out the door.

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Re: Ponce Speculation

Unread post by AppStateNews » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:10 pm

T-Dog wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:37 pm
Some App fans were convinced that Gattis was going to be the App head coach even when he was recruiting with Saban as he was at Bama at the time.
That's probably because he was the choice, was the recommendation by the search committee, and was approved by the BOT. However, the background check showed something Gillin wasn't ok with and the offer was never officially given.
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