Where are we at as Appalachian football?

[311neers]

Running the ball to control the clock and hoping everything else works out isn't an identity. Satt did run first ball control with great zone blocking scheme guys and had a bend don't break defense. His goal was to keep games "contained". Drink sort of mirrored it with an even better defense and a legit special teams. Our defense has shown an inability to prevent the big play/quick score stuff, which doesn't bode will either a run first offense. So if that is our identity, it's a losing formula. I honestly credit Joey for the "leave it all on the field" mentality that's helped us have a chance in some.of these games (albeit his flaws have surfaced). Could Burger have provided the same, maybe, but if Joey is the reason we've had a chance, that also could be a red flag for this staff for choosing Burger. Burger looked lost and indecisive in the short sample size we got (I get his finger was broken). Running the ball and hoping Noel breaks off enough runs for TDs to match opponent TDs isn't an identity. Not having LB depth behind Harrington isn't proof of good recruiting. Your QB fumbling and not one lineman swarming to a loose ball is not "blue collar" type vibes. Your star RB getting decapitated and not having his whole team at his defense (a la Chargers yesterday for Herbert) doesn't scream "player led team". I hear propaganda, but not much substance to support it. I valued AppStateNews and his inside perspective, but he and I also had differing perspectives of certain things when I had equal "access". It's the old "Fox News vs CNN" type thing- truth probably falls somewhere in the middle.

That "inside perspective" was a cover up. I'm sure they were handled internally within the program after showing his arse. Been nice on here lately, but some other burners have risen...

[appstatealum]

Running the ball to control the clock and hoping everything else works out isn't an identity. Satt did run first ball control with great zone blocking scheme guys and had a bend don't break defense. His goal was to keep games "contained". Drink sort of mirrored it with an even better defense and a legit special teams. Our defense has shown an inability to prevent the big play/quick score stuff, which doesn't bode will either a run first offense. So if that is our identity, it's a losing formula. I honestly credit Joey for the "leave it all on the field" mentality that's helped us have a chance in some.of these games (albeit his flaws have surfaced). Could Burger have provided the same, maybe, but if Joey is the reason we've had a chance, that also could be a red flag for this staff for choosing Burger. Burger looked lost and indecisive in the short sample size we got (I get his finger was broken). Running the ball and hoping Noel breaks off enough runs for TDs to match opponent TDs isn't an identity. Not having LB depth behind Harrington isn't proof of good recruiting. Your QB fumbling and not one lineman swarming to a loose ball is not "blue collar" type vibes. Your star RB getting decapitated and not having his whole team at his defense (a la Chargers yesterday for Herbert) doesn't scream "player led team". I hear propaganda, but not much substance to support it. I valued AppStateNews and his inside perspective, but he and I also had differing perspectives of certain things when I had equal "access". It's the old "Fox News vs CNN" type thing- truth probably falls somewhere in the middle.

That "inside perspective" was a cover up. I'm sure they were handled internally within the program after showing his arse. Been nice on here lately, but some other burners have risen...

Quite possible.

[MrCraig]

Well you obviously don't watch then, App State identity under Clark is run the ball, wear you down and proof of that is in the rushing yards/stats for Peoples, Noel, Evans, etc. and have a solid passing game which they have under Thomas, Brice and now JA the last 4 seasons.

**App State has had 3 OC's in 3 years under Clark and NOT his fault, App can't afford to keep them...

Let's remember our best defender got BOUGHT by Auburn(?) back in July and Harrington lost for year vs UNC.
App defense identity has been speed, a little inexperienced this year. The UNC game in week 2 was App's true identity, the ECU and Wyoming as well were tough battles. The game last night was about speed and ULM was fast.

Your offensive identity should match your defensive identity - but you're correct it all starts with line play up front on both sides.

Your condescension is a nice cherry on top of this incorrect sundae. “Run the ball and wear you down” was App’s identity under Satterfield. Under Clark, App’s offense has been much, much more balanced. You can see play totals here:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sc ... /2023.html

App has actually ran the ball less per game each season under Clark. 2020 was the last time the run/pass play differential was more than +10 for run plays. The team as it’s currently constructed is built for more of a spread look, but they don’t really do that either.

And as for OC turnover, I’m not sure if it was you or someone else I pointed this out to, but only 2 OCs got poached by a bigger program- Barbay- and there was a lot of speculation last year as to whether he was actually calling the plays anyway, and Ponce- who is back now. Tony Peterson needed to be fired before he went to Illinois (where he was fired after 1 year).

First - Tony went to Illinois with a FAT contract and was 'never' fired... now, was many happy to see him, maybe so but the dude left for more money.

Barbay called the plays, he installed all the reverses and such, 6 wins under Barbay. Peterson 10 wins, Ponce 9 wins = are Facts. Little does everyone forget how excited they were after Barbary scored 60 vs UNC in his first game as OC.

2ndly - on your link to stats it reads, App state offense rushes 43.8 times per game, passes 35.0 attempts per game -- not sure where you were looking.

3rd - identity is running the ball, Clark is OL coach, run first.

4th - Satt had Lamb as a QB kid he couldn't throw, was a better runner than any QB since Edwards.

2023 (so far)- averaging 8.8 more run plays than pass plays.
2022- averaged 9.6 more run plays than pass plays.
2021- averaged 10.7 more run plays than pass plays.
2020- averaged 20.3 more run plays than pass plays.
2019- averaged 16.2 more run plays than pass plays.
2018- averaged 17 more run plays than pass plays.
2017- averaged 13.4 more run plays than pass plays.

Again, they USED to run the ball to wear the other team down. Since Clark has been coach, they have been much more balanced. "Balanced" CAN be an identity. However, the coaching staff keeps saying their identity is running the ball. Actual play calling is not reflecting that.

Clark was an O-line coach, yet the O-line has been a weakness in recent years.

As for your fourth point, it truly is amazing how the internet has allowed all of us to get on, type whatever we want, and put it out into the world. Taylor Lamb was "a better runner than any QB since Edwards." Brother... what?!?

Looks to me like you proved my point and your question for all us....THEY still run the ball more in each season.

The O line graduated a ton of guys after 2021, still not a weakness when you produce 1000 yard rushers and a Chase Brice, JA passing numbers.

And Taylor Lamb if you watched during his tenure ran the ball on QB draw plays over and over -- my point proven again he was a runner not a passer.

Come on "Craig Mack".
"kick some new flavor" in my ear that I don't know. (hopefully a few get my dry humor)

It seems facts aren't your strong suit. Which is fine. Everybody needs a "vibes guy." However, the stats demonstrate that each year under Clark, App has run the ball less on average than the year before.
Also, App state did NOT have a 1,000 yard rusher last year for the first time in a good while- more evidence that they are moving away from running the ball as their identity.
The stuff about Taylor Lamb just simply isn't true. There were games in which Lamb ran a lot because the other team intentionally did not defend for him running, because he almost never did. There are no statistics to back up your claim that he was a running QB. If you've got them, I'd love to see them, because I can't find them.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

I’m not taking a side here, but hard to say we are getting away from the run when Nate Noel is 2nd in the nation in rushing yards. And the guy ahead of him has 1 more game played with just 21 more yards.

[BambooRdApp]

I’m not taking a side here, but hard to say we are getting away from the run when Nate Noel is 2nd in the nation in rushing yards. And the guy ahead of him has 1 more game played with just 21 more yards.

And other App backs getting a decent amount of touches in total as well.

[Pikapp79]

Glad we didn’t give up on coach Moore after his 4-7 year 5 record, go Apps, next year is the barometer. #trustthe process. #nokneejerkreactionsyourbetterthanthat

Moore had to build a program. This coach was given one. Big difference.

[coachprouty]

We can win every damn football game on the rest of the schedule. We have Nate Noel.

[WVAPPeer]

1-0

[Stonewall]

Glad we didn’t give up on coach Moore after his 4-7 year 5 record, go Apps, next year is the barometer. #trustthe process. #nokneejerkreactionsyourbetterthanthat

Moore had to build a program. This coach was given one. Big difference.

Sparky left a program that had turned the corner .We lost some players when he left certainly but we had established ourselves as a 1-aa power.

[MrCraig]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

Total rushing yards per year:
2022- 2,453
2021- 2,691
2020- 3,179
2019- 3,240
2018- 3,125
2017- 2,907
2016- 3,262

Pretty clear drop off the last two years.
If averages hold, App will rush for roughly 2,455 yards this year.

[BambooRdApp]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

Total rushing yards per year:
2022- 2,453
2021- 2,691
2020- 3,179
2019- 3,240
2018- 3,125
2017- 2,907
2016- 3,262

Pretty clear drop off the last two years.
If averages hold, App will rush for roughly 2,455 yards this year.

Personally, I would like to see 3000 each (running and passing)...would take more if we could get....but the even balance would be nice

[MrCraig]

I’m not taking a side here, but hard to say we are getting away from the run when Nate Noel is 2nd in the nation in rushing yards. And the guy ahead of him has 1 more game played with just 21 more yards.

I’m not saying App does not run the football. I’m saying it isn’t their “identity” anymore. Play calling is much more balanced, and the stats prove that.

Consider this: Nate Noel is averaging 5.3 yards per carry. In 2020, App ran 11.5 more run plays per game than 2023. If you gave all those touches to Nate Noel, he’d have 60.95 more yards per game. That would be 304.75 more yards so far this season.

Would it really work out that way? Probably not. Would that be the difference in the 2 losses App currently has? Who knows!? But I think it’s interesting. Btw if there really are App coaches trolling this board as some say, I’m available to help with stats, analytics, tutoring players, washing socks and towels, whatever. I’m not even expensive. You just have to pay more than the public schools.

[MrCraig]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

Total rushing yards per year:
2022- 2,453
2021- 2,691
2020- 3,179
2019- 3,240
2018- 3,125
2017- 2,907
2016- 3,262

Pretty clear drop off the last two years.
If averages hold, App will rush for roughly 2,455 yards this year.

Personally, I would like to see 3000 each (running and passing)...would take more if we could get....but the even balance would be nice

Passing/rushing yardage HAS been more balanced in the Clark era!
Personally, I think balance is overrated. Do what your team is built to do, and do it over and over.

[WASU 93]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

Total rushing yards per year:
2022- 2,453
2021- 2,691
2020- 3,179
2019- 3,240
2018- 3,125
2017- 2,907
2016- 3,262

Pretty clear drop off the last two years.
If averages hold, App will rush for roughly 2,455 yards this year.

There are a lot of factors about the rushing production, but keep in mind that there are a different number of games each year:

In 2019, we played 14 games, had 43.6 attempts per game and averaged 232 yards per game on the ground (we had 2 games over 300 yards rushing)
In COVID 2020, we played 12 games, and had a massive year rushing with 45.2 attempts per game, averaging 262 per game (we had 3 games over 300 yards + rushed for 404 against Campbell and 506 against North Texas)
In 2021, 14 games/40.2 carries per game/192.5 per game/0 games over 300
In 2022, 12 games/39.5 carries per game/204 yards per game/404 yards against GaSt was the only game over 300
In 2023, 5 games--carries are up to 43.8 per game/204.6 yards per game/0 over 300

But, we also had a Pocket QB in 2021/22 and teams were stacking the box against our offense.

This year (purely my speculation) I think that Joey may be passing up some running opportunities because we are already using our backup/2nd QB and may want to limit the number of hits.

Some more stats that support your theory of moving to more balance:
2019 We averaged 21 first downs total per game/averaged 69.0 plays per game and ran the ball on 61.7% of those plays
2020 We averaged 23.4 first downs total per game/ran 70.5 plays per game and rushed on 64.4% of those plays
In 2021 with Chase Brice at the helm--22.7 first downs per game/ran 69.7 plays per game and rushed 57.7% of the time
2022 23 first downs per game/69.4 plays per game/56.9% rushing
Impressively, with the new clock rules in 2023:
78.8 plays per game (8 more plays than the previous high), 26.2 first downs per game/55.6% rushing plays

Finally--Total Offense:
2019 433.7 ypg
2020 452.1 ypg
2021 441.6 ypg
2022 455.3 ypg
2023 464.2 ypg

If my calculations are correct and we maintain this level (our lowest yardage output was against Gardner-Webb), it's encouraging considering we're starting a QB2 who is 4.5 games into his FBS career.

[gsoappfan]

Glad we didn’t give up on coach Moore after his 4-7 year 5 record, go Apps, next year is the barometer. #trustthe process. #nokneejerkreactionsyourbetterthanthat

Moore had to build a program. This coach was given one. Big difference.

App won the conference 2 of the three years prior to when Moore took over. Moore won 9 games in his first season. How much did he have to build the program? The 4-7 season came in Moore's 5th year. Everyone puts Moore on a pedestal, which he deserves to be on, but they forget the rough years he had to go through to become the coach everyone loves today.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Peoples and Noel were hurt in 2022 they only played in 9 games each team had a Toal of 2630 yards rushing collectively -

Taylor Lamb -- 2008 yards rushing in 4 seasons for his career -- playing against the worse teams we have faced since FBS era.


Rushing Statistics
Season GP ATT YDS TD Long AVG/A AVG/G
2014 12 78 483 4 56 6.2 40.3
2015 13 85 436 5 78 5.1 33.5
2016 13 89 505 9 48 5.7 38.8
2017 13 78 584 5 44 7.5 44.9
Total 51 330 2008 23 78 6.1 39.4


I am done with you Craig Mack.

Total rushing yards per year:
2022- 2,453
2021- 2,691
2020- 3,179
2019- 3,240
2018- 3,125
2017- 2,907
2016- 3,262

Pretty clear drop off the last two years.
If averages hold, App will rush for roughly 2,455 yards this year.

Also means we have better passing QB's under Clark - Brice and JA. -- still run the ball my friend and always will - you are nit picking over nothing.

[AppSt91]

https://x.com/fraryandsmith/status/1709 ... 49570?s=46

[Saint3333]

https://x.com/fraryandsmith/status/1709 ... 49570?s=46

They do a nice podcast I've been listening to each week, preview every SBC game and knowledgeable. Hard to argue their positioning of App at 7th results to date, but plenty of time to prove it wrong.

[MDaniels]

Nice thing about this poll is that we still have the opportunity to directly reflect on 4 teams ahead of us .