Worst I’ve ever seen

[704App]

That said, putting together a great staff is a huge part of being a good head coach.

Indeed. That is one area I think Shawn struggled in early and hope this new staff can get it together so we can say he turned it around from that standpoint.

What? you don’t think rehiring dale jones to do a job he did poorly (DC) in the FCS days was the greatest idea ever? Sometimes I wish we could find hungry, smart, innovative coordinators and not just “app guy” re-treads

Dale may not be thought of well as a DC by most fans, but we sure had a very strong linebacker crew the entire time he coached us. Nobody can take away his strengths as a linebacker coach.

And he was great as a keeper of the culture (as a LB coach).

Sorry for the following veer off the main topic, but… We fancy ourselves as a player-run program. And we have been for years, and probably still are for the most part. However, the player-leaders who “run” the program need to be held accountable by the coaches in the background, so they can be molded into effective leaders and even checked when needed. I sometimes wonder how much of this has been done by the coaches under this administration. Who are our player leaders today? Used to be one could name them without hesitation. Outside of Joey, and maybe Horn, I don’t see a rock solid team leader. Maybe they’re just quiet, and that’s okay, but I especially don’t see one on the defensive side — at least in the same way as a Meech or a John Law, etc.

Harrington is the only other one I can think of.. but he's seemingly on a pitch count and can't always be on the field.

[WASU 93]

Indeed. That is one area I think Shawn struggled in early and hope this new staff can get it together so we can say he turned it around from that standpoint.

What? you don’t think rehiring dale jones to do a job he did poorly (DC) in the FCS days was the greatest idea ever? Sometimes I wish we could find hungry, smart, innovative coordinators and not just “app guy” re-treads

Dale may not be thought of well as a DC by most fans, but we sure had a very strong linebacker crew the entire time he coached us. Nobody can take away his strengths as a linebacker coach.

And he was great as a keeper of the culture (as a LB coach).

Sorry for the following veer off the main topic, but… We fancy ourselves as a player-run program. And we have been for years, and probably still are for the most part. However, the player-leaders who “run” the program need to be held accountable by the coaches in the background, so they can be molded into effective leaders and even checked when needed. I sometimes wonder how much of this has been done by the coaches under this administration. Who are our player leaders today? Used to be one could name them without hesitation. Outside of Joey, and maybe Horn, I don’t see a rock solid team leader. Maybe they’re just quiet, and that’s okay, but I especially don’t see one on the defensive side — at least in the same way as a Meech or a John Law, etc.

Harrington is the only other one I can think of.. but he's seemingly on a pitch count and can't always be on the field.

Not on the defensive side, but Castle seems to be embracing being a captain and showing leadership. He was still running hard and was genuinely pissed on the after his carry leading into the two minute timeout last week.

What I don't see on the defensive side is consistent playmakers. Players who can step up like DeMarco Jackson or Meech or Spurlin and make a play when we needed a stop. Even Duck and his willingness to always plays on the visitor's sideline and keep the juices flowing and bring some attitude to the field.

[311neers]

We may not just have the dudes we thought we had. We've got a few 6th years starting that have no business doing so. Which is a little scary regarding recruiting/depth that no one has beat them out yet.

[proasu89]

We may not just have the dudes we thought we had. We've got a few 6th years starting that have no business doing so. Which is a little scary regarding recruiting/depth that no one has beat them out yet.

Who knows what will happen…..but we might be looking at a 2014 scenario again where we play some younger guys and catch fire.

[311neers]

We may not just have the dudes we thought we had. We've got a few 6th years starting that have no business doing so. Which is a little scary regarding recruiting/depth that no one has beat them out yet.

Who knows what will happen…..but we might be looking at a 2014 scenario again where we play some younger guys and catch fire.

I’ve seen a few younger guys who are playing better than the upperclassmen. Almost at every level.

[bcoach]

We may not just have the dudes we thought we had. We've got a few 6th years starting that have no business doing so. Which is a little scary regarding recruiting/depth that no one has beat them out yet.

We don't and it is time for us to admit it. Before the season started I kept seeing this wealth of talent being talked about but I just could not find it. In my humble opinion recruiting is our biggest weakness. The best jockey in the world will never win a race on a plow horse, but an average jockey can win some races on a champion.

[AppDawg]

What if it isn’t the lack of recruiting, or as much NIL… instead the fallout of the Covid 6th year. IIRC, we lost virtually 2 full classes in 2022 or 23 due to graduation and choosing not to take the 6th year. We had many Red Shirt Sophs in 2020 that were Juniors in 21, yet had to compete with nearly the entire ‘20 senior class opting for a 6th year. It has been a bubble flowing through the program since… now we have to rely on portal to make #’s due to that “lost” class

This is the first article I have seen blatantly calling the roster makeup and culture impacts:

https://www.wataugademocrat.com/sports/ ... 3ce35.html

[Mjohn1988]

What if it isn’t the lack of recruiting, or as much NIL… instead the fallout of the Covid 6th year. IIRC, we lost virtually 2 full classes in 2022 or 23 due to graduation and choosing not to take the 6th year. We had many Red Shirt Sophs in 2020 that were Juniors in 21, yet had to compete with nearly the entire ‘20 senior class opting for a 6th year. It has been a bubble flowing through the program since… now we have to rely on portal to make #’s due to that “lost” class

This is the first article I have seen blatantly calling the roster makeup and culture impacts:

https://www.wataugademocrat.com/sports/ ... 3ce35.html

Everybody had to deal with COVID. But I’m starting to even question the impact of NIL at the G5 level. Not sure how accurate it is but the info I found said the top 25 players in the G5 might get $50k. Not anything to sneeze at but not what I thought it could be. The article I found went on to say that most G5 players get a few thousand a year. Not sure how much impact this kind of money would have on players making a choice between 2 G5 schools. Now there is no doubt that the G5 as a whole will lose most of its top talent to NIL in the p4. But everyone in the G5 will lose those guys so it shouldn’t hurt our ability to compete with other G5 teams.

[AppStFan1]

That is kind of what Napier was at Louisiana. Made bad decisions but had a good staff. I always thought him taking Link with him was a huge hit. He was a great special teams coach for us.

That said, putting together a great staff is a huge part of being a good head coach.

Indeed. That is one area I think Shawn struggled in early and hope this new staff can get it together so we can say he turned it around from that standpoint.

What? you don’t think rehiring dale jones to do a job he did poorly (DC) in the FCS days was the greatest idea ever? Sometimes I wish we could find hungry, smart, innovative coordinators and not just “app guy” re-treads

Dale may not be thought of well as a DC by most fans, but we sure had a very strong linebacker crew the entire time he coached us. Nobody can take away his strengths as a linebacker coach.

Good LB coach but once you demote someone the egos become an issue. Being a good position coach doesn’t make someone a good DC or HC.

[AppStFan1]

What if it isn’t the lack of recruiting, or as much NIL… instead the fallout of the Covid 6th year. IIRC, we lost virtually 2 full classes in 2022 or 23 due to graduation and choosing not to take the 6th year. We had many Red Shirt Sophs in 2020 that were Juniors in 21, yet had to compete with nearly the entire ‘20 senior class opting for a 6th year. It has been a bubble flowing through the program since… now we have to rely on portal to make #’s due to that “lost” class

This is the first article I have seen blatantly calling the roster makeup and culture impacts:

https://www.wataugademocrat.com/sports/ ... 3ce35.html

I said this to Moose and some others back in 2020 that we should have just let a few players take the extra year like a super star or someone close to being able to graduate. It made many classes out of whack and people in personnel and recruiting should have been able to prefer this, actually a few coaches and personnel people did. Many just didn’t listen. I feel like we should be signing as many HS players as we can and just hold a few spots for the portal.

Serious question. Without the portal would Clark still be here? We have missed on so many QBs and the OL recruiting was real bad for a couple years. We have had to go heavy there. Where would we be if Ponce didn’t look out for us with Joey?

[Yosef84]

Joey wasn't a portal guy. He was a JUCO. The portal is a reality, so most coaches wouldn't have survived without it. We've had players leave and we've added as well. App has actually used the portal less than many of our peers.

I actually expressed some concern about the impact the extra COVID year could make. I do think that's part of what caused our current situation and resulted in increased portal used this past year.

[AppDawg]

I agree we haven’t used portal as much. But have been forced to due to COVID. The results, it’s much more difficult to be a player led program when 50% or so of upper class-men are new to the program. Team/culture building becomes a complete different animal. It isn’t now just integrating and brining in a new Freshman class every year, it’s now much more complex.

[Yosef84]

We've been forced to use the portal because it's a reality of today's world. That combined with a "must win now" mentality imposed on programs means that no program will invest a year in developing a player who might struggle but has potential. There are instant "solutions" available in the portal and nobody wants to struggle, even short term, to win down the road. In fairness, the risk of a "longer term" mentality is higher because players can bolt if they aren't satisfied. We seen all the comments from fans on this board about "wasn't this the year", right? I find those really tiresome. I do understand the frustration, but do people really think that comments like that were ever a guarantee?

Bottom line is that we use the portal because everybody else does and nobody is willing to wait. I'm guilty and so are most on this board. That's my read on the situation, anyway.