QB1 battle?

[hapapp]

If he got Lamb and Thomas, that was pretty good he left and we had the Brice years. Burger was supposedly destined to be the four year starter. He was a 3 star recruit. It did not work out.
If he starts for the full season at liberty, we will get to truly see his value, whether good, bad or indifferent.
Although he did not look good in the bowl game, liberty overall did not look good and the OL was atrocious. Salter did not look like the same QB as the year before.

Not sure what liberty has done in off-season to recruit a QB in portal or if they have a young HS recruit last year.
Time will tell on Burger. So far, Burger has been less than stellar compared to expectations.

Liberty brought in the Coastal QB thru the portal. Be interesting to see who emerges as the starter.

[BambooRdApp]

If he got Lamb and Thomas, that was pretty good he left and we had the Brice years. Burger was supposedly destined to be the four year starter. He was a 3 star recruit. It did not work out.
If he starts for the full season at liberty, we will get to truly see his value, whether good, bad or indifferent.
Although he did not look good in the bowl game, liberty overall did not look good and the OL was atrocious. Salter did not look like the same QB as the year before.

Not sure what liberty has done in off-season to recruit a QB in portal or if they have a young HS recruit last year.
Time will tell on Burger. So far, Burger has been less than stellar compared to expectations.

Liberty brought in the Coastal QB thru the portal. Be interesting to see who emerges as the starter.

Interesting to see how it plays out.

[hapapp]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

Joey is ranked as the 11th best QB in the SEC. One must wait to see how he performs against that caliber competition. I have no idea what the coaches saw prior to the season's start but I think it presumptuous to assume that they only saw what they wanted and somehow overlooked Joey's talent. IIRC, it was battle up to the end of preseason. They may have seen Burger as the safer choice given Joey's gunslinger mentality.
I wasn't a great Ponce fan but he did coach two of the most prolific QBs in school history and did discover Joey in the Juco ranks.
None of what I have stated above is to suggest the coaching chane was unnecessary or unwarranted because I had reached that point myself but they are gone and to continue question their judgement seems pointless.

[AtlAppMan]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

Joey is ranked as the 11th best QB in the SEC. One must wait to see how he performs against that caliber competition. I have no idea what the coaches saw prior to the season's start but I think it presumptuous to assume that they only saw what they wanted and somehow overlooked Joey's talent. IIRC, it was battle up to the end of preseason. They may have seen Burger as the safer choice given Joey's gunslinger mentality.
I wasn't a great Ponce fan but he did coach two of the most prolific QBs in school history and did discover Joey in the Juco ranks.
None of what I have stated above is to suggest the coaching chane was unnecessary or unwarranted because I had reached that point myself but they are gone and to continue question their judgement seems pointless.

My point is not to rehash the merits of the previous staff but rather to use it as a point of reference on what goes into deciding how a starting QB process may play out. Those are fairly fresh data points that are useful. Like it or not, that staff and previous ones at App and other schools should be compared/contrasted against our current roster and staff from a decision and performance perspective. If you can't look at history and learn from it then have missed an opportunity?

[T-Dog]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

[AppSt94]

Not to split hairs on this but what has been stated above isn’t true. Ryan sustained a spiral fracture that did not break the skin. He was taken to the NEZ for x-rays and to stabilize the injury. He had surgery the following morning at the hospital. While there may have been blood on the bandage, it was likely from a cut or scrape to another finger. It wasn’t from the actual injury.

For those that want to refute the information, my sources of my information were Jennifer and Jason Burger.

[AtlAppMan]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

I realize the finger injury made it worse but even before that point in game, he looked too sluggish for our team against a substantially inferior FCS Gardner Webb team. I do give him credit for his moxie to continue with that injury. That is admirable. But, that is also why I added that Burger has not gotten much love by other staffs well beyond his recovery. That is the more compelling data point to me. I am not trying to beat up on Burger, as he is a strong kid and I like him, but when it came down to comparing overall QB1 and QB2 that was my point.

[AppSt94]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

I realize the finger injury made it worse but even before that point in game, he looked too sluggish for our team against a substantially inferior FCS Gardner Webb team. I do give him credit for his moxie to continue with that injury. That is admirable. But, that is also why I added that Burger has not gotten much love by other staffs well beyond his recovery. That is the more compelling data point to me. I am not trying to beat up on Burger, as he is a strong kid and I like him, but when it came down to comparing overall QB1 and QB2 that was my point.

He was making his first college start and regardless of the competition, that’s a bit daunting for a kid. Add to it the injury and you get what you get. It’s also possible that he lost a bit of confidence when his backup came in and played so well. It’s hard to know what is going on in a young kids head.

[AtlAppMan]

Another point on player competition, sometimes it comes down to being in the right place at the right time. We have seen it SO many times, especially in the pros, where a good starter goes down and the backup picks up and delivers in the moment, history made. Most coaches are going to analyze and go with their instincts on players, and if player delivers to their expectations then they retain starting job. Some coaches are quicker to replace based on that criteria. Then they go with hot hand. In lieu of hot hand they try to trust their instincts. Some coaches have better instincts than others. When the line is small it is often hard to know in the moment.

Sometimes coaches are too close to know for sure and they need someone that is a bit more neutral to give them some feedback. Remember story with Jerry Moore and Armanti. Jerry asked Mickey Matthews for his opinion as an observer from the outside looking in. I think Jerry knew but wanted some reassurance that his instincts were probably right. In that case there was no injury to make the decision for him.

[AppSt94]

Another point on player competition, sometimes it comes down to being in the right place at the right time. We have seen it SO many times, especially in the pros, where a good starter goes down and the backup picks up and delivers in the moment, history made. Most coaches are going to analyze and go with their instincts on players, and if player delivers to their expectations then they retain starting job. Some coaches are quicker to replace based on that criteria. Then they go with hot hand. In lieu of hot hand they try to trust their instincts. Some coaches have better instincts than others. When the line is small it is often hard to know in the moment.

Sometimes coaches are too close to know for sure and they need someone that is a bit more neutral to give them some feedback. Remember story with Jerry Moore and Armanti. Jerry asked Mickey Matthews for his opinion as an observer from the outside looking in. I think Jerry knew but wanted some reassurance that his instincts were probably right. In that case there was no injury to make the decision for him.

You may recall that Coco Hillary was brought in to play QB.

[AppDub]

Not to split hairs on this but what has been stated above isn’t true. Ryan sustained a spiral fracture that did not break the skin. He was taken to the NEZ for x-rays and to stabilize the injury. He had surgery the following morning at the hospital. While there may have been blood on the bandage, it was likely from a cut or scrape to another finger. It wasn’t from the actual injury.

For those that want to refute the information, my sources of my information were Jennifer and Jason Burger.

Thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunate for Ryan, but my question is had he not been injured, how long would the staff have stuck with him before they gave the nod to the all time single season passing yardage leader in Apps State history?

[AppSt94]

Not to split hairs on this but what has been stated above isn’t true. Ryan sustained a spiral fracture that did not break the skin. He was taken to the NEZ for x-rays and to stabilize the injury. He had surgery the following morning at the hospital. While there may have been blood on the bandage, it was likely from a cut or scrape to another finger. It wasn’t from the actual injury.

For those that want to refute the information, my sources of my information were Jennifer and Jason Burger.

Thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunate for Ryan, but my question is had he not been injured, how long would the staff have stuck with him before they gave the nod to the all time single season passing yardage leader in Apps State history?

It’s a great hindsight question. Who knows because we are basing that on what we saw in a limited fashion. Ryan looked off after getting injured and now we know why. I even texted buddy as much in the moment. Who knows how he would look as the game wore on and he got comfortable.

The one factor that plays into that is what I call “the play.” It was 3rd and 14 and Joey got 13 yards on a scramble where he trucked a defender. It was at that moment where he won over his teammates and the fans. None of that happens if Ryan doesn’t get hurt.

[ASUFan4863]

He won me over on the 3 touchdowns he threw and 5 straight scoring drives before that play, including the 30 yard strike to KRob on his first ever play as a mountaineer. That’s just me though.

[hapapp]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

Joey is ranked as the 11th best QB in the SEC. One must wait to see how he performs against that caliber competition. I have no idea what the coaches saw prior to the season's start but I think it presumptuous to assume that they only saw what they wanted and somehow overlooked Joey's talent. IIRC, it was battle up to the end of preseason. They may have seen Burger as the safer choice given Joey's gunslinger mentality.
I wasn't a great Ponce fan but he did coach two of the most prolific QBs in school history and did discover Joey in the Juco ranks.
None of what I have stated above is to suggest the coaching chane was unnecessary or unwarranted because I had reached that point myself but they are gone and to continue question their judgement seems pointless.

My point is not to rehash the merits of the previous staff but rather to use it as a point of reference on what goes into deciding how a starting QB process may play out. Those are fairly fresh data points that are useful. Like it or not, that staff and previous ones at App and other schools should be compared/contrasted against our current roster and staff from a decision and performance perspective. If you can't look at history and learn from it then have missed an opportunity?

At some point that's fair. But, we have nothing to go on with this current staff.

[hapapp]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

I realize the finger injury made it worse but even before that point in game, he looked too sluggish for our team against a substantially inferior FCS Gardner Webb team. I do give him credit for his moxie to continue with that injury. That is admirable. But, that is also why I added that Burger has not gotten much love by other staffs well beyond his recovery. That is the more compelling data point to me. I am not trying to beat up on Burger, as he is a strong kid and I like him, but when it came down to comparing overall QB1 and QB2 that was my point.

To my knowledge, there has only been one other staff that he has played under. He transferred into Liberty behind an incumbent QB who was All-CUSA. There was no expectation that he would be the starter in 2024. I have no idea what the future holds for him at Liberty as their QB. He has competition from a former Coastal QB. He may never be a D1 starting QB and I think everyone will agree that thanks to Burger's injury, Joey demonstrated that he was one of the best QBs in App history.

[AtlAppMan]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

I realize the finger injury made it worse but even before that point in game, he looked too sluggish for our team against a substantially inferior FCS Gardner Webb team. I do give him credit for his moxie to continue with that injury. That is admirable. But, that is also why I added that Burger has not gotten much love by other staffs well beyond his recovery. That is the more compelling data point to me. I am not trying to beat up on Burger, as he is a strong kid and I like him, but when it came down to comparing overall QB1 and QB2 that was my point.

To my knowledge, there has only been one other staff that he has played under. He transferred into Liberty behind an incumbent QB who was All-CUSA. There was no expectation that he would be the starter in 2024. I have no idea what the future holds for him at Liberty as their QB. He has competition from a former Coastal QB. He may never be a D1 starting QB and I think everyone will agree that thanks to Burger's injury, Joey demonstrated that he was one of the best QBs in App history.

Let me explain my rationale since you mentioned, "there has only been one other staff that he has played under". You are correct that he has only played under one other coaching staff. What I am saying is that when he left App surely there were many schools that considered him for a possible role in their program (starter and/or backup). If there were multiple coaching staffs that were impressed enough that they would consider him as the likely starter, then I doubt he would end up at a peer program as the backup. That is the basis for my comment.

[AppSt94]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, I could easily see in the first few series of Burger vs same for Aguilar that Joey was obviously better. Keep in mind it was against inferior competition, Gardner Webb, and anybody we believed would have been the starter (and 1st or 2nd backup) should have been able to easily move the ball up and down the field. When Burger couldn't do it and appeared to struggle a red flag went up and told me he wasn't the guy. It appears to me that the old staff frequently saw what they wanted to see and that was probably part of their problem. Now there are multiple articles out saying Aquilar is one of the better players in college, yet our staff didn't think he should start.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/bruins- ... volunteers

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/ ... 965170007/

I believe Aguilar was the better option, but it needs to be stated that Burger broke his middle finger on his throwing hand on the sixth play of the season after leading the team into the red zone on the opening drive. His finger was bleeding through the bandages by the time the switch was made and he had surgery at halftime/second half in the North Endzone Facility.

I realize the finger injury made it worse but even before that point in game, he looked too sluggish for our team against a substantially inferior FCS Gardner Webb team. I do give him credit for his moxie to continue with that injury. That is admirable. But, that is also why I added that Burger has not gotten much love by other staffs well beyond his recovery. That is the more compelling data point to me. I am not trying to beat up on Burger, as he is a strong kid and I like him, but when it came down to comparing overall QB1 and QB2 that was my point.

To my knowledge, there has only been one other staff that he has played under. He transferred into Liberty behind an incumbent QB who was All-CUSA. There was no expectation that he would be the starter in 2024. I have no idea what the future holds for him at Liberty as their QB. He has competition from a former Coastal QB. He may never be a D1 starting QB and I think everyone will agree that thanks to Burger's injury, Joey demonstrated that he was one of the best QBs in App history.

Let me explain my rationale since you mentioned, "there has only been one other staff that he has played under". You are correct that he has only played under one other coaching staff. What I am saying is that when he left App surely there were many schools that considered him for a possible role in their program (starter and/or backup). If there were multiple coaching staffs that were impressed enough that they would consider him as the likely starter, then I doubt he would end up at a peer program as the backup. That is the basis for my comment.

So because you didn’t see anyone outwardly pursuing him, your assessment is that know one else wanted him? There is a great deal of supposition within that assessment. First thing is that we don’t know why he entered the portal. Secondly, it is entirely possible that he entered the portal with a “no contact” tag meaning that he entered with a destination in mind. Chadwell wanted him out of high school and tried to flip Ryan to Coastal. Given his strong faith and relationship with Chadwell, he likely made the decision that Liberty was the place for him.