Roster/Staff Updates

[AppStFan1]

You can't retain good people in those roles for that much. The assistant should be making 100k and our director/GM should be getting at least 150k if you want to get good people for those roles. When you consider the work they should be doing and the quality of scouting eye they need that is just not acceptable. I expect we should be having to make a new hire every 2 years or else that means nobody is being poached and thus not very good. We aren't a power program but you would need 400k or more for a GM. Some are making 700k-900k.

He has almost twice the budget as his predecessor so why is the payout for such a critical position so low?

Did the higher pay produce a better performing player personnel department? Those guys legitimately (and I mean 1000% legitimately) didn’t understand why they were not retained by the new staff. Peak self awareness.

Higher pay is going to make a higher caliber of evaluator available. I actually know of someone who is available and spent around 20 years in the NFL. They would love to take a college GM/Dir job and he is a great evaluator. He would not consider the job for anything less than 150k.

Most people lack self awareness to know their weaknesses. They were not good at all. I heard others online and in person say what I am about to say. When Ware made the comment on 247 that those guys told him there was not any RBs worth offering after we offered 9 and lost them all to P4 programs one year I knew we were in trouble. RBs are a dime a dozen. There is never going to be a year where there is just not enough talent and with the portal now there is a surplus of players that are good enough to play at App that are not going to P4 programs.

I would also say to them that when a new coach comes in you have to know that coach is likely going to want his own people. How could they not know that? The minute Clark got fired they should have known that their time was likely short and needed to start looking around for jobs.

I have not kept up with any of them. Do you know what schools they are working with now?

I have not kept up with them either. It looks like the former GM is no longer working in college football.

I am not surprised by that. I wish him luck in whatever field he was working in though.

[Mjohn1988]

If this whole thing is a real business as many say, why does it need donations? I for one am getting sick of hearing we don’t have enough money to succeed. My daughter has gone through 7 years of college and is going to be just below an MD and won’t make as much money as we say an assistant football coach at a mid major school should make. She has and will literally hold people lives in her hands and won’t make as much as we say we need for someone to pick talent to play football. I’m a capitalist and I believe in choices but damn it’s hard to know that my wife who has been teaching for almost 40 years makes about one third of what we are saying a first year GM on our football team should make. It’s becoming harder and harder to justify my donation.

[t4pizza]

I think JMU finds good, experienced coaches that have been around the game for a long time and seemingly have a really good eye for talent. Those coaches have a network of guys they can call upon to fill roles when needed. It is really hard to argue that the head coach isn't as important as a good GM and x's and o's coordinators when Cig has literally just exploded on the scene and won a title at Indiana. I would say a good/great head coach is still the key to winning football games.

I wouldn’t say that Cig exploded on the scene. Dude has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been.

We can agree to disagree, but I would call winning a National Title at Indiana within 2 years of taking the job is exploding on the scene. Indiana was the losingest football program in the history of NCAA football prior to Cig getting there. Sure, he won at small schools, but nobody ever pays attention to who wins at small schools, and I doubt 95% of college football fans even knew who he was when he took the JMU job. So yeah, I would say he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

[AppStFan1]

If this whole thing is a real business as many say, why does it need donations? I for one am getting sick of hearing we don’t have enough money to succeed. My daughter has gone through 7 years of college and is going to be just below an MD and won’t make as much money as we say an assistant football coach at a mid major school should make. She has and will literally hold people lives in her hands and won’t make as much as we say we need for someone to pick talent to play football. I’m a capitalist and I believe in choices but damn it’s hard to know that my wife who has been teaching for almost 40 years makes about one third of what we are saying a first year GM on our football team should make. It’s becoming harder and harder to justify my donation.

I agree with you that your daughter should be making way more but the market dictates and the market is saying that a good GM should be making well over 100k. I'm not advocating that our current people should be making that but that we should increase what we are offering to improve the talent pool of interested candidates.

[AppStFan1]

I think JMU finds good, experienced coaches that have been around the game for a long time and seemingly have a really good eye for talent. Those coaches have a network of guys they can call upon to fill roles when needed. It is really hard to argue that the head coach isn't as important as a good GM and x's and o's coordinators when Cig has literally just exploded on the scene and won a title at Indiana. I would say a good/great head coach is still the key to winning football games.

I wouldn’t say that Cig exploded on the scene. Dude has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been.

We can agree to disagree, but I would call winning a National Title at Indiana within 2 years of taking the job is exploding on the scene. Indiana was the losingest football program in the history of NCAA football prior to Cig getting there. Sure, he won at small schools, but nobody ever pays attention to who wins at small schools, and I doubt 95% of college football fans even knew who he was when he took the JMU job. So yeah, I would say he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

[AppSt94]

I wouldn’t say that Cig exploded on the scene. Dude has proven to be a winner everywhere he has been.

We can agree to disagree, but I would call winning a National Title at Indiana within 2 years of taking the job is exploding on the scene. Indiana was the losingest football program in the history of NCAA football prior to Cig getting there. Sure, he won at small schools, but nobody ever pays attention to who wins at small schools, and I doubt 95% of college football fans even knew who he was when he took the JMU job. So yeah, I would say he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

[bcoach]

He was making $60,000 as the Asst Dir. . Our Dir/GM Landon Grier, essentially his boss is making $80,000

This looks like the answer to the problem.

Just to be clear. My opinion is if you hired a person who would take the job for that pay you hired the wrong person. I do not believe you give what you have a raise.

[AppStFan1]

We can agree to disagree, but I would call winning a National Title at Indiana within 2 years of taking the job is exploding on the scene. Indiana was the losingest football program in the history of NCAA football prior to Cig getting there. Sure, he won at small schools, but nobody ever pays attention to who wins at small schools, and I doubt 95% of college football fans even knew who he was when he took the JMU job. So yeah, I would say he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. The only reason I figured out that the previous personnel group was not good was because of things I know they told Ware that he would share on the board. The personnel guys exposed themselves as really bad by giving intel that made no sense or told me they did not work very hard. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

[bcoach]

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

Is there nobody in the college ranks who would want the job?

[AppSt94]

In the words of Cig himself. “Google me.” Point is he has a model and a blueprint that generates success.

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

Hammer meet nail.

[AppStFan1]

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

Is there nobody in the college ranks who would want the job?

I don't know but what I do know is that looking around mostly FCS schools hire 24-year olds. We should be able to get someone with a little real world experience in the field.

[bcoach]

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

Is there nobody in the college ranks who would want the job?

I don't know but what I do know is that looking around mostly FCS schools hire 24-year olds. We should be able to get someone with a little real world experience in the field.

I agree 100%

[Cro-Magnon App]

Mjohn, it all is out of whack, whether market driven or not. Your daughter is underpaid in comparison to those in the athletic world, or music world and other worlds, or they are way overpaid. If your daughter makes a mistake, someone dies or is debilitated or continues to suffer from their condition. If an athlete makes a mistake, even many, he collects his pay and his buyout (a coach) and moves to another school and the beat goes on. This is why I have changed and donate to particular schools (my wife donates to the business school) or causes and never again to athletics. I’ll come on here and discuss and listen to an extent, but don’t have the passion for it anymore since the state of the game has changed so drastically. I held season tickets for well over a decade though I worked late on Friday nights as a coach and traveled 175 miles up the mountain to get to the games. At the time, our family enjoyed it. I wish your daughter the best. She’ll have the satisfaction of actually really helping people live better - something those in other higher paying worlds may not be able to say.

[AppStFan1]

Correct, that actually proves my point. Nobody has to Google Saban, or Smart, or Kiffin, or any other great coach that is out there. Nobody knew anything about Cig before he got to Indiana despite his previous success at small schools. If they knew him, they wouldn't have asked the stupid question that garnered his response about googling him. He went from hardly any college football fan/media member knowing anything about him to everyone knowing all about him. Hence my position that he exploded on the scene at Indiana.

I agree that he has a model and a blueprint that generates success. It is actually the basis of my original statement that it is hard to argue that a head coach isn't as important.

Agree with you here. In fact, the head coach is responsible for the whole football staff. I would say that after the head coach his decisions for coordinators, strength coach, and player personnel are the most important decisions he will make for staffing.

The Dir of Player Personnel hire is puzzling to me. He hired a 24 year old kid fresh out of school whose Dad was the GM in Miami. No offense to the young man but is that really the best option available?

I don't know if he is the best option available. I don't know who all he considered. I just know I would never trust a 24-year old as an area scout in the NFL so I am hesitant to make them GM of anything. I would have rather see us double the salary and then go after people with a stronger resume. He might pan out but he is taking a chance on the son of a friend. I wonder if Loggains did this just as a favor or if he will really listen to him? I have to think he is just there as a figure head and Loggains is really making all those calls. If we were offering 150-200k you would be surprised at the former NFL people with strong resumes who I think would have wanted the job.

Is there nobody in the college ranks who would want the job?

I think there are but nobody with a proven track record for the money we are offering. It is honestly a joke but for Landon Grier to start out making 80k with no experience is insane to me. If he is good he will be with a P4 school by end of 2027 season. The money we pay the GM is peanuts compared to what P4 schools pay and I bet 25+ G6 schools could poach him if they wanted him.

[AppStFan1]

Mjohn, it all is out of whack, whether market driven or not. Your daughter is underpaid in comparison to those in the athletic world, or music world and other worlds, or they are way overpaid. If your daughter makes a mistake, someone dies or is debilitated or continues to suffer from their condition. If an athlete makes a mistake, even many, he collects his pay and his buyout (a coach) and moves to another school and the beat goes on. This is why I have changed and donate to particular schools (my wife donates to the business school) or causes and never again to athletics. I’ll come on here and discuss and listen to an extent, but don’t have the passion for it anymore since the state of the game has changed so drastically. I held season tickets for well over a decade though I worked late on Friday nights as a coach and traveled 175 miles up the mountain to get to the games. At the time, our family enjoyed it. I wish your daughter the best. She’ll have the satisfaction of actually really helping people live better - something those in other higher paying worlds may not be able to say.

That is because those others draw revenue and if she was going to make 2x or 3x what she does now then our medical costs would sky rocket even more than they have now. If we get to the point where people like her are making more than P4 GMs then we won't be able to afford going to her.

[Bootsy]

Mjohn, it all is out of whack, whether market driven or not. Your daughter is underpaid in comparison to those in the athletic world, or music world and other worlds, or they are way overpaid. If your daughter makes a mistake, someone dies or is debilitated or continues to suffer from their condition. If an athlete makes a mistake, even many, he collects his pay and his buyout (a coach) and moves to another school and the beat goes on. This is why I have changed and donate to particular schools (my wife donates to the business school) or causes and never again to athletics. I’ll come on here and discuss and listen to an extent, but don’t have the passion for it anymore since the state of the game has changed so drastically. I held season tickets for well over a decade though I worked late on Friday nights as a coach and traveled 175 miles up the mountain to get to the games. At the time, our family enjoyed it. I wish your daughter the best. She’ll have the satisfaction of actually really helping people live better - something those in other higher paying worlds may not be able to say.

That is because those others draw revenue and if she was going to make 2x or 3x what she does now then our medical costs would sky rocket even more than they have now. If we get to the point where people like her are making more than P4 GMs then we won't be able to afford going to her.

You don’t have to respond to every single post.

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

[ASUFan4863]

I ask this in all seriousness- in the current environment especially at the G5 level is the head coach really the most important job anymore in football? It’s beginning to sound more like you really need a great GM and scouting department over a great coach. Don’t get me wrong I know you need a good X’s and O’s guy but it’s obvious that Portal evaluation and getting cheap but potentially good talent tops recruiting especially if great recruits leave in a year. I also think that after the GM you need young assistant coaches who can motivate players. Obviously all is needed but it seems like chasing average over priced guys from P4’s isn’t the best way to go. In terms of talent I still think we need to go more with the JMU model.

What is the JMU model?

Winning and getting in the playoffs. I want to go to that model too

That’s not a model. That’s the results of a model. What is their model? It seems like they prioritize the trenches.

Am I crazy or didn’t we just prioritize the trenches this offseason?

[AppStFan1]

I ask this in all seriousness- in the current environment especially at the G5 level is the head coach really the most important job anymore in football? It’s beginning to sound more like you really need a great GM and scouting department over a great coach. Don’t get me wrong I know you need a good X’s and O’s guy but it’s obvious that Portal evaluation and getting cheap but potentially good talent tops recruiting especially if great recruits leave in a year. I also think that after the GM you need young assistant coaches who can motivate players. Obviously all is needed but it seems like chasing average over priced guys from P4’s isn’t the best way to go. In terms of talent I still think we need to go more with the JMU model.

What is the JMU model?

Winning and getting in the playoffs. I want to go to that model too

That’s not a model. That’s the results of a model. What is their model? It seems like they prioritize the trenches.

Am I crazy or didn’t we just prioritize the trenches this offseason?

We did but it is not about the amount of bodies but the quality of those bodies lol. Hopefully we got some good quality this time.

[BambooRdApp]

What is the JMU model?

Winning and getting in the playoffs. I want to go to that model too

That’s not a model. That’s the results of a model. What is their model? It seems like they prioritize the trenches.

Am I crazy or didn’t we just prioritize the trenches this offseason?

We did but it is not about the amount of bodies but the quality of those bodies lol. Hopefully we got some good quality this time.

And one time focus on trenches is not a model. Let's see trends over the next few years.

[AppStFan1]

Winning and getting in the playoffs. I want to go to that model too

That’s not a model. That’s the results of a model. What is their model? It seems like they prioritize the trenches.

Am I crazy or didn’t we just prioritize the trenches this offseason?

We did but it is not about the amount of bodies but the quality of those bodies lol. Hopefully we got some good quality this time.

And one time focus on trenches is not a model. Let's see trends over the next few years.

Exactly. It has to be something done every year.