Sun Belt ... Where to visit first?

[asumike83]

I can already see that the "Sun Belch" references are quickly going to get just as obnoxious and overused as "SmallCon".

[Gonzo]

-FBS homegames, in/out of conference.
Myself... Along with many other ASU fans love games... Seems to me it's YOU who care more about WHO we play rather than when and where we play.

This is the classic one here. "I don't care who we play." The whole "let's drop down to D-2" comes to mind, but I tend to avoid low hanging fruit. The fact is, the higher the profile of the opponent, the higher the interest of the fans. Were you more excited to see us play Montana last year or Jacksonville State the year before? Personally, I find App/ECU or App/Troy far more compelling than App/Samford. I think you will find that the vast majority of App Nation agrees with me in this.

-Better OOC schedule.
Where's the proof? Again, seems to me like you're more excited about the opponent than the home team? Does that make you a better fan? hmmmm....

Where's the proof? Are you kidding? Just look at the schedule of every single FCS school and compare it to every single FBS school. ODU (a school on the same transition timeline as Appalachian) just landed a homegame against NCSU,Troy just landed Ole Miss at home. We can fill our OOC schedule with ECU, UNCC and Wake forest. That's an improvement from NC A&T. Your denial is bordering on mental illness.

-Makes scheduling easier.
How?

Why don't you ask Charlie Cobb since he specifically mentioned it during the SBC presser. Since bowl eligibility is highly depended on strength of schedule, especially outside of the fab 5 conferences, an FBS App State is far more desirable to another FBS school when they're making a schedule. The Big 10 just prohibited games against FCS schools for god sake.

-Escaping the dying FCS.
Seems to me that ASU games were pretty darn packed in the FCS. Didn't seem like a dying fanbase/system to me and my 25,000+ friends on a gameday.

We have done what we have done in spite of the dying nature of the FCS. In just the last 4 years I've seem App football go from Fox Sports to PBS to having to stream every game on the internet like a d-2 school. Georgia Southern, ODU, Charlotte, JMU; programs are scrambling to get the hell out. You mean to tell me that the administrations of all these schools have the same conspiracy you assert Appalachian has? That GSU, UNCC, ODU ect are only desperately trying to move to appease wealthy donors and pad the resume's of their administrators? Give me a break.

-Better exposure.
This is a laughable argument. When was the last time that you say the Sun Belch really talked about on ESPN or any other news channel/newspaper?

TV>No TV. The SBC gets exponentially more press than the SoCon. The FCS championship game is mentioned in the same breath as the D-2 and D-3 championships, then never spoken of again until the following year or unless they upset a BCS school.

-More revenue.
I hope you're not an accountant. Football budget goes up 3 million... but expected revenue is supposed to increase by a little over 1. Math doesn't add up.

The revenue will be higher. That was my claim and that is a fact. The bottom line might be in the red at the onset, but revenue WILL be higher than a league with no damn TV contract.

-Facility upgrades.
Ummm.... Have you seen the locker room? The rock was built in the FCS from fans that came to watch FCS games... Although I suppose the coaches will get new desks since they can demand higher salaries.

I worked in the new facility for two years. I think I've seen it. Incredibly impressive facility. Does that mean we shouldn't continue to make improvements? Absolutely not. The track is going, the endzone is being bowled in, the field house is being replaced and I think you might be the only person out of tens of thousands of App faithful that aren't happy about it.

-More media coverage.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Really?? HAHAHAHAHAHA... Maybe in the Watauga Democat.

And the WSJ, and the CO, and ESPN..... More is more.


Since you abandoned logic long ago, I'm going to stop with this nauseating dance after this post. Perhaps when you actually lay eyes on a massive new KBS with 40k screaming fans watching us beat a BCS team, you'll change your tune. Until then, I pity your misery in this exciting time in Appalachian history.

Res ipsa loquitur, let the good times roll.

[Saint3333]

veg, no one is blindly following anyone. 89 provided a well thought out and rational post. Some people will refuse to believe what he has said. You can only make decisions with the data provided at a point in time. As of today all data points suggest this is the correct long-term decision.

[vegattk]

veg, no one is blindly following anyone. 89 provided a well thought out and rational post. Some people will refuse to believe what he has said. You can only make decisions with the data provided at a point in time. As of today all data points suggest this is the correct long-term decision.

I should have better directed that comment. It was not towards 89. It was towards the other few on this board that seem to want to believe that the Sun Belt is some sort of El Dorado.

Folks like yourself and 89 can at least have a good lively debate without throwing out the insults and put downs that people like Gonzo and Onion seem to do on a regular basis.

[vegattk]

Since you abandoned logic long ago, I'm going to stop with this nauseating dance after this post. Perhaps when you actually lay eyes on a massive new KBS with 40k screaming fans watching us beat a BCS team, you'll change your tune. Until then, I pity your misery in this exciting time in Appalachian history.

Res ipsa loquitur, let the good times roll.

Just so you know... I'm not above saying "I told you so."

But I'll reserve that right for when the time is right...

[ASUPATCH]

The main thing we get from this move is positioning for the future. I am confident that we will build rivalries with Sun Belt schools as we get to know them, but the most important thing for us, at this time, was to get out of FCS. As you all know, I prefer the playoff system and I detest the minor bowls that do nothing but lose money for the participants, but the landscape of college football is changing rapidly and this move had to be made. FCS schools are losing their big money games against BC$ opponents, there are serious discussions about cutting FCS scholarships down to 45-50. FCS simply is no longer a viable vehicle for ASU football. The Power 5 conferences are less than 10 years away from taking their ball and going home. When that happens, we have to be positioned to remain in the second tier. That is when the regional conferences are going to come together. We could not sit in FCS and wait for that to happen. The Sun Belt is not ideal, for sure, but it had some big wins last years and was ranked ahead of both CUSA and the MAC, and it is definitely better than where we were going if we didn't move.

I guess that just worries folks like myself that are worried that this prediction doesn't come true and we get stuck in the Belch for the foreseeable future.

And one good year does not make the Belch consistently better than the MAC/CUSA.

In any case... This whole thread was about "Where to visit first?" I just wanted to point out that there are a few disenfranchised fans out there that could care less about the Belch, that see this move as a bad thing and it's hard to see the folks on here following an emperor with no clothes on into the FBS.

You all may get back to your regularly scheduled Belch fest at this time.

Its a done deal. Get behind App or grab something purple and watch a socon contest with less than 10k in the stands. Without us and GSU bringing fans the socon attendance is going to drop to sad low levels. I far prefer good OOC games than watching us pound A&T, Central, Mars Hill and the like. I like to see us challenged on a weekly basis. It is the same reason that BCS fans don't want to play FCS schools. We all pay good money to attend these games and I love to see App win but the 45-7 predictable games are no fun to me. Why do you think Montana was so well attended this year. Hmmmmm quality opponent? So yes the opponents mater. App is on the field regardless when I am in Boone. Might as well see some quality football played.

[ASUMountaineer]

To tell the truth... I'm not interested in any of them...

Bleh...

I'm glad to be making one more round to our SoCon brothers before moving on. Time to embrace the change and support Appalachian wherever we may go.

It would be easy to embrace... if it was easier on the pocketbook... and if I cared in the least about the teams in the new conference.

We've moved from one island of misfit toys... to another. Only this one has a higher cost of living

Give it a rest already. The Sun Belt is an improvement on essentially every front. I realize it isn't the SEC, but to deny that the Sun Belt is a better conference for Appalachian than the SoCon is to deny your own intelligence.

Come on Gonzo. I've known Veg for years, he's a diehard App fan. Just because he disagrees with the move doesn't make him anti-progress. He and I happen to differ on the question of the move, but I still respect Veg. You both are very passionate about your opinions on this matter, but both are more passionate about App State. Why don't you and Veg use that as a way to let this debate die and move on?

[asumike83]

It's like Al Davis said: just win, baby.

Of course, there will a transition period but if Appalachian puts a winning product on the field, competes for conference championships and bowl bids on a regular basis, the move will be a success.

If they are not able to win, it will be a struggle.

[hapapp]

The main thing we get from this move is positioning for the future. I am confident that we will build rivalries with Sun Belt schools as we get to know them, but the most important thing for us, at this time, was to get out of FCS. As you all know, I prefer the playoff system and I detest the minor bowls that do nothing but lose money for the participants, but the landscape of college football is changing rapidly and this move had to be made. FCS schools are losing their big money games against BC$ opponents, there are serious discussions about cutting FCS scholarships down to 45-50. FCS simply is no longer a viable vehicle for ASU football. The Power 5 conferences are less than 10 years away from taking their ball and going home. When that happens, we have to be positioned to remain in the second tier. That is when the regional conferences are going to come together. We could not sit in FCS and wait for that to happen. The Sun Belt is not ideal, for sure, but it had some big wins last years and was ranked ahead of both CUSA and the MAC, and it is definitely better than where we were going if we didn't move.

I guess that just worries folks like myself that are worried that this prediction doesn't come true and we get stuck in the Belch for the foreseeable future.

And one good year does not make the Belch consistently better than the MAC/CUSA.

In any case... This whole thread was about "Where to visit first?" I just wanted to point out that there are a few disenfranchised fans out there that could care less about the Belch, that see this move as a bad thing and it's hard to see the folks on here following an emperor with no clothes on into the FBS.

You all may get back to your regularly scheduled Belch fest at this time.

You are just as infuriating as those fans who always refer to the SoCon as the SmallCon. I know you could care less, but I give absolutely no credibility to someone who has to name call to try and make their point. This venture is no slam dunk and time will tell whether it was the right decision or not. However, that decision has been made and it becomes our responsibility to try and make sure it works. The other option, I guess, is to stand on the sidelines and throw rocks.

[SpeedkingATL]

Gotta admit it will be easier for me to make the drive to Boone from ATL for home games when the games are against FBS teams rather than the A&T's and Gardner Webb's of the FCS. I will certainly miss more away games with the Sunbelt but the games should be a little higher in quality for the most part than the SoCon....and should continue to get better as should App.

As far as where to visit first, I'll just have to wait on the 2014 schedule and see who is first after Michigan since I won't miss that one either.

Go Apps!!

[Gonzo]

people like Gonzo and Onion seem to do on a regular basis.

I have never insulted you personally beyond telling you that your arguments are beginning to stray from sanity. I respect you as an App fan and as a MMB poster.

[Gonzo]

Why don't you and Veg use that as a way to let this debate die and move on?

The debate is dead. We're FBS.

Perhaps it's time for others to admit defeat and save the nonsensical griping for Appfan.com.

[goapps93]

Since you abandoned logic long ago, I'm going to stop with this nauseating dance after this post. Perhaps when you actually lay eyes on a massive new KBS with 40k screaming fans watching us beat a BCS team, you'll change your tune. Until then, I pity your misery in this exciting time in Appalachian history.

Res ipsa loquitur, let the good times roll.

Just so you know... I'm not above saying "I told you so."

But I'll reserve that right for when the time is right...

It's that attitude that bothers me more than not agreeing with the move. You sound as if you want ASU to fail in this move so you can say "I told you so." I have some reservations myself and know that it is risky. I am, however, going to make my first Yosef Club donation this year. The FBS train has left the station and, thankfully, we're on it this time and it doesn't matter whether you're on it or not. Come 2014 we'll be playing a Sun Belt schedule. I hope the program still has your support but if not, oh well.

[ASU-FTW]

Why don't you and Veg use that as a way to let this debate die and move on?

The debate is dead. We're FBS.

Perhaps it's time for others to admit defeat and save the nonsensical griping for Appfan.com.

Indeed. Time for a new signature

[BeauFoster]

Question for Veg: What exactly is your criteria for not being able to say "I told you so?" In other words, is there any possible way that you would see this venture as a success - a measure in which you would admit that your fears were not realized? Please be realistic, and feel free to include the entire sports program, not just football. Also, keep in mind that these goals have to be the same as if we had stayed in the SoCon.

[vegattk]

Question for Veg: What exactly is your criteria for not being able to say "I told you so?" In other words, is there any possible way that you would see this venture as a success - a measure in which you would admit that your fears were not realized? Please be realistic, and feel free to include the entire sports program, not just football. Also, keep in mind that these goals have to be the same as if we had stayed in the SoCon.

Certainly. I'd love to put the criteria up here. And I FULLY expect you guys to be open to making me eat crow when I'm wrong....

Anyway.. my criteria.

Sub .50 seasons two years in a row
Less than 18,000 fans in the stadium
Increased ticket prices/skyrocketing Yosef requirements
Lack of exposure in typical sports writing (i.e. ESPN, CO, WSJ)

And believe me... I'm not cheering for this to happen... I guess I'm more of a glass-half empty guy when it comes to where we ended up.

[vegattk]

Since you abandoned logic long ago, I'm going to stop with this nauseating dance after this post. Perhaps when you actually lay eyes on a massive new KBS with 40k screaming fans watching us beat a BCS team, you'll change your tune. Until then, I pity your misery in this exciting time in Appalachian history.

Res ipsa loquitur, let the good times roll.

Just so you know... I'm not above saying "I told you so."

But I'll reserve that right for when the time is right...

It's that attitude that bothers me more than not agreeing with the move. You sound as if you want ASU to fail in this move so you can say "I told you so." I have some reservations myself and know that it is risky. I am, however, going to make my first Yosef Club donation this year. The FBS train has left the station and, thankfully, we're on it this time and it doesn't matter whether you're on it or not. Come 2014 we'll be playing a Sun Belt schedule. I hope the program still has your support but if not, oh well.

The program will always have my support... but my money is another thing entirely.

[vegattk]

The main thing we get from this move is positioning for the future. I am confident that we will build rivalries with Sun Belt schools as we get to know them, but the most important thing for us, at this time, was to get out of FCS. As you all know, I prefer the playoff system and I detest the minor bowls that do nothing but lose money for the participants, but the landscape of college football is changing rapidly and this move had to be made. FCS schools are losing their big money games against BC$ opponents, there are serious discussions about cutting FCS scholarships down to 45-50. FCS simply is no longer a viable vehicle for ASU football. The Power 5 conferences are less than 10 years away from taking their ball and going home. When that happens, we have to be positioned to remain in the second tier. That is when the regional conferences are going to come together. We could not sit in FCS and wait for that to happen. The Sun Belt is not ideal, for sure, but it had some big wins last years and was ranked ahead of both CUSA and the MAC, and it is definitely better than where we were going if we didn't move.

I guess that just worries folks like myself that are worried that this prediction doesn't come true and we get stuck in the Belch for the foreseeable future.

And one good year does not make the Belch consistently better than the MAC/CUSA.

In any case... This whole thread was about "Where to visit first?" I just wanted to point out that there are a few disenfranchised fans out there that could care less about the Belch, that see this move as a bad thing and it's hard to see the folks on here following an emperor with no clothes on into the FBS.

You all may get back to your regularly scheduled Belch fest at this time.

You are just as infuriating as those fans who always refer to the SoCon as the SmallCon. I know you could care less, but I give absolutely no credibility to someone who has to name call to try and make their point. This venture is no slam dunk and time will tell whether it was the right decision or not. However, that decision has been made and it becomes our responsibility to try and make sure it works. The other option, I guess, is to stand on the sidelines and throw rocks.

To be fair I called the SOCON the SmallCON for quite some time now.

[GlassOnion]

My, how the tables have turned.

Guess its somebody else's turn to have their concerns with the programs direction.

[vegattk]

The main thing we get from this move is positioning for the future. I am confident that we will build rivalries with Sun Belt schools as we get to know them, but the most important thing for us, at this time, was to get out of FCS. As you all know, I prefer the playoff system and I detest the minor bowls that do nothing but lose money for the participants, but the landscape of college football is changing rapidly and this move had to be made. FCS schools are losing their big money games against BC$ opponents, there are serious discussions about cutting FCS scholarships down to 45-50. FCS simply is no longer a viable vehicle for ASU football. The Power 5 conferences are less than 10 years away from taking their ball and going home. When that happens, we have to be positioned to remain in the second tier. That is when the regional conferences are going to come together. We could not sit in FCS and wait for that to happen. The Sun Belt is not ideal, for sure, but it had some big wins last years and was ranked ahead of both CUSA and the MAC, and it is definitely better than where we were going if we didn't move.

I guess that just worries folks like myself that are worried that this prediction doesn't come true and we get stuck in the Belch for the foreseeable future.

And one good year does not make the Belch consistently better than the MAC/CUSA.

In any case... This whole thread was about "Where to visit first?" I just wanted to point out that there are a few disenfranchised fans out there that could care less about the Belch, that see this move as a bad thing and it's hard to see the folks on here following an emperor with no clothes on into the FBS.

You all may get back to your regularly scheduled Belch fest at this time.

Its a done deal. Get behind App or grab something purple and watch a socon contest with less than 10k in the stands. Without us and GSU bringing fans the socon attendance is going to drop to sad low levels. I far prefer good OOC games than watching us pound A&T, Central, Mars Hill and the like. I like to see us challenged on a weekly basis. It is the same reason that BCS fans don't want to play FCS schools. We all pay good money to attend these games and I love to see App win but the 45-7 predictable games are no fun to me. Why do you think Montana was so well attended this year. Hmmmmm quality opponent? So yes the opponents mater. App is on the field regardless when I am in Boone. Might as well see some quality football played.

It's a slap in the face of the players that play to say that no quality football is being played by App.

What do you count as a quality opponent? I generally look at the score on the board at the end of the game.

This past year we played 12 teams. We lost 4 games... Seems that those opponents were pretty good.. We then won 4 games by 10 points or less.. Of the remaining 4 games the only real blow out was a 55-14 drubbing of Coastal.

I rather enjoyed the 13 games where we had a "quality" opponent this past year.