Moving Forward

[App91]

Just so people don't think I am nuts ---
JOE MOORE AWARD ANNOUNCES 2021 SEMIFINALISTS
November 23, 2021

THIRTEEN UNITS EARN SEMIFINALIST HONOR THROUGH TOUGH, PHYSICAL O-LINE PLAY
NEW YORK, New York – November 23, 2021 — The Foundation for Teamwork announced today thirteen semifinalists for the 2021 Joe Moore Award, given to the top offensive line unit in college football. The Joe Moore Award has annually presented the unique award since 2015.

The thirteen semifinalists include (in alphabetical order): Air Force, #25 Arkansas, Appalachian State, #9 Baylor, #1 Georgia, Kentucky, #23 Louisiana, #2 Ohio State, #6 Michigan, #12 Michigan State, #11 Oregon, Oregon State, and #18 Wisconsin.

For games played through November 20th, the 2021 Joe Moore Award semifinalists have a combined record of 115-28 and represent six FBS conferences: BIG TEN (4), BIG-12 (1), MOUNTAIN WEST (1), PAC-12 (2), SEC (3), and SUN BELT (2). Combined, these teams average 439.7 total yards per game (compared to national average of 399.4) and 218.9 rushing yards per game (compared to national average 163.9), and represent four of the Top 10 and nine of the Top 25 in the latest AP poll.*

“Due to unprecedented inconsistency for many teams and units, this has been a challenging year for our evaluation process,” said Cole Cubelic, lead sideline analyst for the SEC Network and the Chairman of the Joe Moore Award Voting Committee. “Several units that played well one week, struggled the next. And vice versa. This sort of inconsistency has made it more difficult than usual, but this year’s semifinalists have earned their inclusion through the sort of elevated play that excellence at our position requires.”

The Joe Moore Award finalists will be named on Tuesday, December 7th. The eventual winner will be recognized in the ensuing weeks during a surprise, on campus visit to the winning unit’s school (TBD as per the winning school’s schedule).

“Like in year’s past, in addition to the extensive film review and voting committee conference calls, we solicited the opinions of more than sixty-five FBS head coaches that had personally faced many of the O-line units under consideration,” said Phil Steele, analyst and founder of the popular preseason magazine Phil Steele's College Football Preview. “It’s been an honor to be a part of an award that matters so much to the O-line community, and we take that responsibility seriously.”

“Although it has been a challenging year to evaluate O-line units, what’s proven to hold true is the undeniable relationship between excellence at our position and winning football,” said Aaron Taylor, CBS college football analyst and co-founder of the Joe Moore Award. Taylor played guard at the University of Notre Dame for the award’s namesake, the legendary offensive line coach Joe Moore. “The exciting thing this year is that it’s still wide open, and these last few weeks will be extremely important, and we can’t wait to see who will be at their best when their best is needed.”

2021 Semifinalists at a Glance
Appalachian State (9-2)

Appalachian State has allowed eight sacks in 11 games, which leads the Sun Belt and is tied for third nationally.

App State is 10th in the country in lowest pressure percentage allowed.

What the committee is saying: “App State continues to put themselves in the conversation by having an edge and chippiness to their style of play. They seem to excel in the “Gotta Have Its” and goal line plays, and work combos with a consistency that is fun to watch. They admittedly struggled with Louisiana, but their collective body of work warrants their inclusion this year.

Offensive line coach: Nic Cardwell
The 2021 voting committee includes Chairman Cole Cubelic (Auburn, SEC Network); Charles Arbuckle (UCLA, Indianapolis Colts); Randy Cross (UCLA, San Francisco 49ers); Gerry DiNardo (Notre Dame, head coach at LSU); Mike Golic, Jr. (Notre Dame, ESPN); Harry Hiestand (Joe Moore disciple, NFL and College O-line Coach); Barrett Jones (Alabama, St. Louis Rams); Duke Manyweather (Humboldt State, player and coach; founder of OL Masterminds); Geoff Schwartz (Oregon, Carolina Panthers); Sam Schwartzstein (Stanford, XFL rules creator); Phil Steele (publisher of Phil Steele’s College Football Preview, ESPN); Aaron Taylor (Notre Dame, Green Bay Packers); and Lance Zierlein (NFL draft analyst, NFL.com).

Can we get someone to run back to the visitors locker room in College Station to pick this up? We seemed to have forgotten to pack this in the equipment truck for the trip back home.

[311neers]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we use to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

[ASUTodd]

Kid is 6'5"...... Apparently the coach wants shorter round linemen for his oline...."they can't be pushed around".... He is going to be attending a NC college. I don't want to give too much out and cause them any issues. The kid is a STUD and would def be a welcome addition to our line. Oh well.....

[AppStateNews]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we used to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

[311neers]

Kid is 6'5"...... Apparently the coach wants shorter round linemen for his oline...."they can't be pushed around".... He is going to be attending a NC college. I don't want to give too much out and cause them any issues. The kid is a STUD and would def be a welcome addition to our line. Oh well.....

If Kamen smith i riot.

[AppStateNews]

Kid is 6'5"...... Apparently the coach wants shorter round linemen for his oline...."they can't be pushed around".... He is going to be attending a NC college. I don't want to give too much out and cause them any issues. The kid is a STUD and would def be a welcome addition to our line. Oh well.....

If Kamen smith i riot.

My understanding is Kamen couldn't qualify at App...

Also, we have multiple offers for O Line that are 6'4+. My guess is Todd is hearing just one side of the story...

[311neers]

Kid is 6'5"...... Apparently the coach wants shorter round linemen for his oline...."they can't be pushed around".... He is going to be attending a NC college. I don't want to give too much out and cause them any issues. The kid is a STUD and would def be a welcome addition to our line. Oh well.....

If Kamen smith i riot.

My understanding is Kamen couldn't qualify at App...

Also, we have multiple offers for O Line that are 6'4+. My guess is Todd is hearing just one side of the story...

This is an issue. Can't qualify at APP but can get into NC ST? Lol

[AppStateNews]

Kid is 6'5"...... Apparently the coach wants shorter round linemen for his oline...."they can't be pushed around".... He is going to be attending a NC college. I don't want to give too much out and cause them any issues. The kid is a STUD and would def be a welcome addition to our line. Oh well.....

If Kamen smith i riot.

My understanding is Kamen couldn't qualify at App...

Also, we have multiple offers for O Line that are 6'4+. My guess is Todd is hearing just one side of the story...

This is an issue. Can't qualify at APP but can get into NC ST? Lol

They take NQs. We don't. Typically these guys that don't qualify are on the verge and will likely qualify before they graduate. We just don't have the means to take chances on those guys.

[311neers]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we used to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

[AppStateNews]

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we used to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the Wade hire to begin with. But, he's well regarded in coaching circles. Hell, we hired him away from a top 25 team where he was only on staff for a couple weeks.

So, I don't know if players haven't got used to him or if it's a different skill set than he's used to working with. Clark has been very public about technique and how the line has not played with good technique. They have in the past. Only one thing changed.

[Mjohn1988]

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we used to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the Wade hire to begin with. But, he's well regarded in coaching circles. Hell, we hired him away from a top 25 team where he was only on staff for a couple weeks.

So, I don't know if players haven't got used to him or if it's a different skill set than he's used to working with. Clark has been very public about technique and how the line has not played with good technique. They have in the past. Only one thing changed.

We can talk about technique until the cows come home, they have to be strong enough to move the guy in front of them. Sure technique helps.

[AppStateNews]

You can. We do it sometimes, just doesn't seem as frequent as we used to. Baer used to pull all the time, maybe we just don't have the personnel at the moment to pull as much as previous years. Just not fooling anyone with stretch zones or block who is in front of you for iso dives.

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the Wade hire to begin with. But, he's well regarded in coaching circles. Hell, we hired him away from a top 25 team where he was only on staff for a couple weeks.

So, I don't know if players haven't got used to him or if it's a different skill set than he's used to working with. Clark has been very public about technique and how the line has not played with good technique. They have in the past. Only one thing changed.

We can talk about technique until the cows come home, they have to be strong enough to move the guy in front of them. Sure technique helps.

You can be the strongest man on the field but if you have poor technique, you're going to get beat 99% of the time.

Likewise, the man across from you may be the strongest man on the field but if you have good technique, you're going to beat him 99% of the time.

[Mjohn1988]

We haven't ran an iso dive in years...

I edited me previous post to add more to it. I'll add it here as well.

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the Wade hire to begin with. But, he's well regarded in coaching circles. Hell, we hired him away from a top 25 team where he was only on staff for a couple weeks.

So, I don't know if players haven't got used to him or if it's a different skill set than he's used to working with. Clark has been very public about technique and how the line has not played with good technique. They have in the past. Only one thing changed.

We can talk about technique until the cows come home, they have to be strong enough to move the guy in front of them. Sure technique helps.

You can be the strongest man on the field but if you have poor technique, you're going to get beat 99% of the time.

Likewise, the man across from you may be the strongest man on the field but if you have good technique, you're going to beat him 99% of the time.

I can agree that technique matters but it’s no substitute for strength and size. I’m afraid our coaches have talked themselves into believing what you’re saying.

[AppStateNews]

Understand, so seems like a personnel and coaching issue. But most of these lineman have been here for years in this same scheme with success. Sounds like OL Coach isn't it.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the Wade hire to begin with. But, he's well regarded in coaching circles. Hell, we hired him away from a top 25 team where he was only on staff for a couple weeks.

So, I don't know if players haven't got used to him or if it's a different skill set than he's used to working with. Clark has been very public about technique and how the line has not played with good technique. They have in the past. Only one thing changed.

We can talk about technique until the cows come home, they have to be strong enough to move the guy in front of them. Sure technique helps.

You can be the strongest man on the field but if you have poor technique, you're going to get beat 99% of the time.

Likewise, the man across from you may be the strongest man on the field but if you have good technique, you're going to beat him 99% of the time.

I can agree that technique matters but it’s no substitute for strength and size. I’m afraid our coaches have talked themselves into believing what you’re saying.

Well considering I've personally manhandled guys that are 1.5 my size and now in the NFL, I'd say it's true. Strength and size are great if it comes with great technique. Technique is WAY more important that strength and size.

Of course, you're not going to put a 5'8 175 pound slot receiver to block a 0 tech so size and strength do play a role. But, the size and strength we have on the line are plenty of they play with good technique. They aren't.

[Mjohn1988]

We can agree to disagree, I’ll go as much as 50/50 on strength vs technique but not 99 percent technique. That said if you’re right our coaches have failed miserably. Either they can’t teach the technique or they are scared to bench the guys who won’t do the techniques they are teaching.

[AppStateNews]

We can agree to disagree, I’ll go as much as 50/50 on strength vs technique but not 99 percent technique. That said if you’re right our coaches have failed miserably. Either they can’t teach the technique or they are scared to bench the guys who won’t do the techniques they are teaching.

That's fine. You can believe what you want.

But when our guys are on the ground because they have their feet set for a bull rush when the defender is ripping, it's not a strength or size issue...

[huskie3]

What I see as a problem with zone plays is the backside DE crashing and tackling from behind. Need the QB run a reverse to hold him for a 2 count.

[AppStateNews]

What I see as a problem with zone plays is the backside DE crashing and tackling from behind. Need the QB run a reverse to hold him for a 2 count.

Or the backside tackle to chip/reach like he's supposed to...

[huskie3]

What I see as a problem with zone plays is the backside DE crashing and tackling from behind. Need the QB run a reverse to hold him for a 2 count.

Or the backside tackle to chip like he's supposed to

The T must not be, I’m not seeing any slow down of DE.

[AppStateNews]

What I see as a problem with zone plays is the backside DE crashing and tackling from behind. Need the QB run a reverse to hold him for a 2 count.

Or the backside tackle to chip like he's supposed to

The T must not be, I’m not seeing any slow down of DE.

It obviously depends on the play call and where the defense is lined up, but yes, I've seen it a lot as well.

It's easier said than done a lot of times. The defense makes the tackle make a read and if they disguise it well, it's a hard read.