I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

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Well unfortunately this is today's trend. I think most schools have gotten around bans such as this by having a moment of silence or as one High School where prayer was banned, the players took a stand and still have a prayer on the field before the game, I mean what are you going to do, arrest them? Let them pray if they want to pray. I am old fashioned and traditional, but it seems that today's society is offended by religion when it comes to Christianity, but when it comes to New Age or Scientology or whatever the new Fad is its ok. Im not trying to get into some big religious debate or anything but its easy to see what the trends in society are.

As long as it is student-led (and is truly such) then they are within their 1st Amendment rights. There can't be ( and in my opinion shouldn't be) any sort of organized prayer over the PA system. This all, of course, applies to public school settings.

The one danger with group prayer (which in principle I'm fine with) is the possibility of putting non-believers or those of different faiths in an awkward or uncomfortable position. Such events can become team events and a player may feel compelled to participate for fear of not displaying team spirit or loyalty. I had such an occurrence when I was coaching. I had a player who 2 years after the fact confessed to me that they participated in student led prayers prior to contests and only did so because of the fear of being ostracized or adversely affecting team unity.

It is definitely a balancing act. Some see it as some sort of war on Christianity. I think it is more a recognition of the multi-cultural society that we now live in.

"They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players!"

I don't think this is the proper time nor place for witnessing - as a former coach I would not have used this kind of approach even if I were very religious - I have no problem with pre-game or post-game prayer however a "moment of silence" would be more appropriate if all players were required to participate ---

"I don't think this is the proper time nor place for witnessing..."

Wow, WV...are you sure? I can think of one coach (whom you obviously admire) who would disagree with that opinion.

Appsolutely wrote:"I don't think this is the proper time nor place for witnessing..."

Wow, WV...are you sure? I can think of one coach (whom you obviously admire) who would disagree with that opinion.

I think there is a huge difference between in the mental capability and understanding of a 18-22 year old college young man and that of a 14-17 high school kid - I have never read anything that stated Coach Moore prophalitized (sp) to his team as part of their preparation - leading a prayer or allowing the players to join up after a game for a prayer is totally different in my mind ---

WVAPPeer wrote:

Appsolutely wrote:"I don't think this is the proper time nor place for witnessing..."

Wow, WV...are you sure? I can think of one coach (whom you obviously admire) who would disagree with that opinion.

I think there is a huge difference between in the mental capability and understanding of a 18-22 year old college young man and that of a 14-17 high school kid - I have never read anything that stated Coach Moore prophalitized (sp) to his team as part of their preparation - leading a prayer or allowing the players to join up after a game for a prayer is totally different in my mind ---

Is this the word you're looking for, proselytize?

WVAPPeer wrote:"They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players!"

I don't think this is the proper time nor place for witnessing - as a former coach I would not have used this kind of approach even if I were very religious - I have no problem with pre-game or post-game prayer however a "moment of silence" would be more appropriate if all players were required to participate ---

Wow, did someone really neg-rep this post? WT...?

Fisher DeBerry got in a little bit of trouble at the Air Force Academy for going a bit overboard on this didn't he? When a leader in a position of power does this, it has to be voluntary. I'm sure Julian Rauch would not have been comfortable if he had been forced to listen to a good old Christian heartfelt witnessing prayer/speech/sermon after every game. Player led pre and post game prayers are fine and I'm glad to see them but we have to be respectful to those who don't want to listen.

Part of what they are objecting to is that he gives some players rides to church and the pre-game meals are prepared by some local churches (no preaching involved.) As for the argument at Findley Stadium, they want to prohibit ALL prayer inside the stadium. What are they going to do after a game, arrest the entire group?

Rekdiver wrote:Fisher DeBerry got in a little bit of trouble at the Air Force Academy for going a bit overboard on this didn't he? When a leader in a position of power does this, it has to be voluntary. I'm sure Julian Rauch would not have been comfortable if he had been forced to listen to a good old Christian heartfelt witnessing prayer/speech/sermon after every game. Player led pre and post game prayers are fine and I'm glad to see them but we have to be respectful to those who don't want to listen.

Good post...sometimes we have a hard time remembering that there are folks who have other spiritual beliefs than the ones we ourselves have.

asualum78 wrote:Part of what they are objecting to is that he gives some players rides to church and the pre-game meals are prepared by some local churches (no preaching involved.) As for the argument at Findley Stadium, they want to prohibit ALL prayer inside the stadium. What are they going to do after a game, arrest the entire group?

What he does outside of his responsibilities as a coach are perfectly above board. I seriously doubt they will succeed in removing voluntary prayer from the stadium.

Rekdiver wrote:Fisher DeBerry got in a little bit of trouble at the Air Force Academy for going a bit overboard on this didn't he? When a leader in a position of power does this, it has to be voluntary. I'm sure Julian Rauch would not have been comfortable if he had been forced to listen to a good old Christian heartfelt witnessing prayer/speech/sermon after every game. Player led pre and post game prayers are fine and I'm glad to see them but we have to be respectful to those who don't want to listen.

Are people really offended by what they "hear" in a prayer? Or are they just looking to infringe on everyone else?

If I were atheist, I would like to think I'd be respectful of other's faith. I went to military school in high school. We had lots of international students who, just like me, had to pay reverence to our flag each morning. I once asked one of them how they felt about that. He said that they could pay respect to our flag without denouncing allegiance to his own flag.

I know that some Christians are obnoxious about their faith, but the majority just want to practice their faith and are happy to welcome non-believers at their will.

asualum78 wrote:I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

https://www.facebook.com/SupportCoachMariakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if this was a Muslim prayer if the reaction by the group would be the same?

The prayer after the game, like the players' Bible study group, is completely voluntary and completely student led at Appalachian. The coaches stay away from the Bible study. I've heard Jerry Moore speak of watching from his office as a handful of players walk the field on Friday praying (his guess) about the next day's game, teammates, opponents, etc. The players came to him several years ago and asked if they could start a Bible study. As leaders graduate, other leaders have stepped up. So long as that Bible study and prayer time are led by the students, all is well with those who would argue that prayer to be out of place.

JCline0429 wrote:

asualum78 wrote:I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

https://www.facebook.com/SupportCoachMariakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if this was a Muslim prayer if the reaction by the group would be the same?

Excellent point, JC. I absolutely do not oppose prayers in any form, but allowing teachers/coaches/leaders free reign is a double edged sword. Most Christians who see no problem with this assume the prayer is a Christian one. What if the teacher/coach is another faith? How bout one that is close, but not quite down the center (Mormon for example). Do you want your son coming back with lessons from the Book of Mormon? There is a reason that our forefathers advocated a separation of church and state. It protects BOTH.

Yosef84 wrote:

JCline0429 wrote:

asualum78 wrote:I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

https://www.facebook.com/SupportCoachMariakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if this was a Muslim prayer if the reaction by the group would be the same?

Excellent point, JC. I absolutely do not oppose prayers in any form, but allowing teachers/coaches/leaders free reign is a double edged sword. Most Christians who see no problem with this assume the prayer is a Christian one. What if the teacher/coach is another faith? How bout one that is close, but not quite down the center (Mormon for example). Do you want your son coming back with lessons from the Book of Mormon? There is a reason that our forefathers advocated a separation of church and state. It protects BOTH.

Good point.

JCline0429 wrote:

asualum78 wrote:I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

https://www.facebook.com/SupportCoachMariakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if this was a Muslim prayer if the reaction by the group would be the same?

Why wouldn't it be? Do you see this as some sort of attack on Christianity?

One more comment. No law in this nation can attempt to prohibit voluntary prayer. It is a direct violation of the first amendment. As the saying goes...as long as there are exams, there will be prayer in schools.

Appsolutely wrote:

JCline0429 wrote:

asualum78 wrote:I live in the Chattanooga area and the Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop prayer in THE ROCK West as well as a local high school. What can they do about a player led post-game prayer? They are also trying to stop the high school coach from using religious references or witnessing to his players! How long before we are next????

https://www.facebook.com/SupportCoachMariakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if this was a Muslim prayer if the reaction by the group would be the same?

Why wouldn't it be? Do you see this as some sort of attack on Christianity?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question.