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2021 Football Roster

AppSt94
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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:21 pm

We can and do take our cuts and offer, “better” players. You miss 100% of the recruits you don’t offer. But they have to be realistic in where they put their time and effort.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by CornCobPipes » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:49 pm

Putting my Mountaineer bias aside.......If I'm a young kid with strong football aspirations or an NFL dreamer AND I'm rated a 4 star player and getting overlooked by strong P5 programs or their depth chart looks menacing......I would be pouncing on an opportunity to play at APP STATE over any mediocre P5 program!


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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:26 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:54 pm
I am not following what you are actually trying to say. You like our success, which comes from good talent evaluation and development. But at the same time, you want to leverage the system that got us to this point to get better players? How are you defining the term “better”?
We can get bigger, improve our depth of speed and talent, etc. Perhaps hit more at QB and TE. Expand our recruiting footprint to get more eyes on talent and thus increase the talent pool we can bring in. Until we are 3 deep at every position we can easily get better. For a couple specifics we can win more P5 battles that will help for one. Perhaps spread our recruiting footprint so we are strong in LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, OH, KY, TN, MO, MD, WV, and PA. That would give us more players to choose from.

Maybe our next Noah Hannon at center will be 6'3 290-300 instead of 6'0 260. Maybe instead of a 6'4 285 OT like Hodges we have him at guard and have a 6'5-6'6 300-310 OT starting out there in the future.

I put this together just to show the infusion of talent that could have been out there. Below are draft picks from below FBS or teams in G5 that are clearly below our brand name. Could you imagine how good our team would have been with this group?

Round Pick Team Pos First Name Last Name School HT WT HomeState High School Division Conference
3 98 Broncos C Quinn Meinerz Wisconsin-Whitewater 6'3 320 WI Hartford Union D3 WIAC
5 183 Falcons CB Avery Williams Boise State 5'9 187 CA JSerra Catholic FBS MWC
4 108 Falcons CB Darren Hall San Diego State 5'11 188 CA Rancho Cucamonga FBS MWC
4 130 Rams CB Robert Rochell Central Arkansas 6'0 193 LA Fair Park FCS Southland
3 79 Raiders DE Malcolm Koonce Buffalo 6'2 249 NY Archbishop Stepinac/Milford Academy FBS MAC
4 116 Giants DE Elerson G. Smith Northern Iowa 6'6 252 MN Minneapolis South FCS MVFC
7 252 Rams DE Chris Garrett Concordia-St. Paul 6'4 241 WI Wisconsin Lutheran D2 NSIC
3 73 Eagles DT Milton Williams Louisiana Tech 6'3 284 TX Crowley FBS C-USA
7 231 Dolphins OT Larnel Coleman Massachusetts 6'6 307 MA St. Clement FBS Independent
5 155 49ers OT Jaylon Moore Western Michigan 6'4 311 MI Consortium College Prep FBS MAC
5 161 Bills OT Tommy Doyle Miami (Ohio) 6'8 320 MN Edina FBS MAC
2 53 Titans OT Dillon Radunz North Dakota State 6'6 301 MN Becker FCS MVFC
3 93 Bills OT Spencer Brown Northern Iowa 6'8 311 IA Lenox FCS MVFC
1 3 49ers QB Trey Lance North Dakota State 6'4 224 MN Marshall FCS MVFC
5 168 Vikings TE Zach Davidson Central Missouri 6'7 245 MO Webb City D2 MIAA
4 129 Bucs WR Jaelon Darden North Texas 5'8 174 TX Eisenhower FBS C-USA
2 56 Seahawks WR D'Wayne Eskridge Western Michigan 5'9 190 IN Bluffton FBS MAC
7 229 Colts WR Mike Strachan Charleston (WV) 6'5 226 VA Liberty Christian D2 MEC

Could you imagine if we had both of those TEs and had the size of some of those OL and DL on our team? How about if we had gone after Lance as a QB? I know we could not be perfect and hit on all of these but just give us say 3-5 of these guys and our team is instantly upgraded big time so the talent is out there.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:30 pm

CornCobPipes wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:49 pm
Putting my Mountaineer bias aside.......If I'm a young kid with strong football aspirations or an NFL dreamer AND I'm rated a 4 star player and getting overlooked by strong P5 programs or their depth chart looks menacing......I would be pouncing on an opportunity to play at APP STATE over any mediocre P5 program!
I know every player won't think that way but I would think the same way. If I'm a 4-star or high 3-star talent with low level P5 offers I rather go play immediately at UCF, Boise St, App, etc types than go sit for 2-3 years at VT or Tennessee types. I would rather go play immediately at App or UCF than sit for 3-4 years at Alabama before getting my shot as a 5th year senior even. They all have that P5 dream though so they figure they have to chase it. They also all think they can come in and beat out the guy ahead of them as well. They don't understand the politics of it. There would have been some at App say if Lance had wanted to transfer to App. Do you think we sit Thomas for Lance after all he has done even though Lance is the better player? No way that happens. The P5 school is not going to sit a guy who has put 3 years in and has similar talent for a true freshman unless that true freshman is head and shoulders elite compared to the guy who has been in the system.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:35 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:21 pm
We can and do take our cuts and offer, “better” players. You miss 100% of the recruits you don’t offer. But they have to be realistic in where they put their time and effort.
Definitely agree but there is plenty of future NFL Draft picks and top end college talent who land at lower schools than us that we could get. We are also getting to a point with facilities that I don't think a recruit can walk on campus and see a difference between us and many of these low level P5s now. We have very nice facilities and have an impressive stadium view, to go along with a good education and overall facilities, to offer these kids.

It seems we are expanding our recruiting footprint with offers in LA, KY, OH, etc and that is the easiest way to possibly bring in those guys. We are also being more deliberate in who we take and not just jumping to take a bunch of early commits possibly helps us wait it out and land even more of these late bloomer types who just get overlooked by the P5s who eventually become that FCS or low G5 player to be drafted.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:15 pm

The list you put together is interesting and thank you for taking the time to do that - but :>) with that being said it really doesn't point out one major factor - how good were these guys coming out of high school? You never know, heck JJ Watt had to walk-on at Wisconsin -

Also, if I am remembering correctly, which sometimes is questionable, we had more players drafted during our FCS years than during our FBS years - of course, that doesn't mean our teams were better during those years ---


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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm

Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:02 pm

So let me ask you this about the guys listed above. As giddy as you get to see our commits with P5 offers. Would you have been just as giddy, or concerned that we offered a kid whose only other offer was Wisconsin Whitewater or Concordia St. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have been thinking these guys would amount to much.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:22 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:15 pm
The list you put together is interesting and thank you for taking the time to do that - but :>) with that being said it really doesn't point out one major factor - how good were these guys coming out of high school? You never know, heck JJ Watt had to walk-on at Wisconsin -

Also, if I am remembering correctly, which sometimes is questionable, we had more players drafted during our FCS years than during our FBS years - of course, that doesn't mean our teams were better during those years ---
My point is that we have to get those players and develop them. We are getting in the door with even better players but the easiest way to improve our team without moving up to the AAC or a P5 league is to hit on more of these types that we develop. Look how many players we have developed over the years that became stars for us like Gaither, Hodges, Peoples, etc and imagine if you add just 3-5 of these types overall or per class to what we are getting already?

Imagine our class if a couple more players in each class pan out, we find 1-2 of those FCS guys who becomes a stud, and then we beat out say 3-4 more players per year that have legit P5 offers who pan out? We could easily become a top 15-20 team every year.

On the draft picks, we have not been FBS that long so give it time. We moved up in 2014 and since then we have had 5 players drafted. We had 8 picked in the 7 drafts prior so that is true but the area we have seen an increase in players getting a shot in camps.

We are getting way more players that are worthy of a shot in the NFL and I don't think you can look at the last two years because of the COVID-19 stuff but just wait until you see how many we have get looks and a shot in this class coming up. We would typically have 2-5 players get a shot while we were FCS, sometimes having just 1-2. We are seeing way more talent get looks, which shows we are getting more quality players than before. There were years we would get 1-2 and just wait until you see what we have happen in the 2022 class.

Quick breakdown of the draft class for next year.

Here are the names from 2021 who would have gotten a chance: Taylor, Smith, Sutton, Virgil, Malik Williams, Hennigan, Hunter

Here are the names on the radar who should get a look that would have been in the 2022 class alone: Brice, Jolly, Jackson, Cobb, Huff, Steven Jones, Harrington, and Pearson.

Add in the fact that Peoples and Hodges both could come out early. I don't think either of them should but it would not shock me if agents get in their ears and they test the waters. We could see 12-15 players get a shot this year with 1-3 draft picks. That would be an absolutely stacked group and something that has never happened for us. We are definitely seeing more talent come through than before.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm
Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.

I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.

We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:34 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:02 pm
So let me ask you this about the guys listed above. As giddy as you get to see our commits with P5 offers. Would you have been just as giddy, or concerned that we offered a kid whose only other offer was Wisconsin Whitewater or Concordia St. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have been thinking these guys would amount to much.
I don't care about the P5 offers and you are wrong that I would. Lindsay may pan out to be a star or he may bust. I was just saying that we have to land more P5 talent that they either miss or we beat them out unless we are suddenly going to expand our reach for guys like the Whitewater kid or better find more ADG, Evans, Quick, etc type players in the area. They are hard to come by on a yearly basis or else I would think we find it more.

We have had many players who I see their film and just shake my head that they are 2-star because they have elite speed for our level. DJ Williams and Peoples came to mind when I saw their film and offer lists. There can be so many reasons like qualifying late, plays in a saturated area and only so many scholarships to give by the P5s who recruit it, only plays one year of HS football, super late physical development, etc.

We need to be able to go after more coveted players but we can't forget where we came from. We still need to hit on the Hunters and Quicks of the world while we get more ready to play type talent. Most of our stars in FCS took a year or two before ready to standout for us. There aren't many like Edwards or Coakley who were stars right away. Several of them just took time to develop. People forget that we put Quick on the field at Michigan and decided to redshirt him because he was just not ready. He became the best WR we ever had before his career was over.

One area besides more speed and depth that we have seen improvement since moving up is the OL. I remember signing tackles like Matt Isenhour and thinking that we will have to get bigger up front when we move up. We have done that. We have gone from looking like 6'2 280, 6'1 290, 6'0 260, 6'3 285, 6'5 290 on our OL in many year to 6'6 280, 6'4 295, 6'2 290, 6'3 325, and 6'4 295 for 2021. Right now we average 297 and could easily hit the 300 average for the first time in school history by opening day.

I just want to say thank you for your time on this board. I am really shocked, and humbled, you spend any time on here with all of us yokels to be honest. LOL. With the way you talk about this board on 247 I am shocked that you even spend time here. I guess we are your charity? LOL
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by InFor6More » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:12 pm

Can we just all agree that draft picks and any NFL related metric is a waste of time when discussing talent at the college level? I like getting guys drafted because I want to see them earn a living at the sport they love and because it helps continue the growth trajectory of our program, but from a product standpoint, we need to get the best talent we can in the areas we recruit, develop those players through conditioning and coaching, then put a cohesive unit on the field that can go out and execute a superior gameplan, taking advantage of our opponents weaknesses. Let’s put a consistent top 20 team on the field by doing those things and go beat up on prig 5 teams with our collection of 3 stars wearing chips on their shoulders.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:35 pm

InFor6More wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:12 pm
Can we just all agree that draft picks and any NFL related metric is a waste of time when discussing talent at the college level? I like getting guys drafted because I want to see them earn a living at the sport they love and because it helps continue the growth trajectory of our program, but from a product standpoint, we need to get the best talent we can in the areas we recruit, develop those players through conditioning and coaching, then put a cohesive unit on the field that can go out and execute a superior gameplan, taking advantage of our opponents weaknesses. Let’s put a consistent top 20 team on the field by doing those things and go beat up on prig 5 teams with our collection of 3 stars wearing chips on their shoulders.
If you are a top 25 team every year then you will have a lot of talent go to the NFL. Of course there are exceptions, and I agree with you, but if you don't have an ounce of NFL talent you have no shot against A&M and UNC type teams that we face in 2022. There are teams loaded with NFL talent that don't have good coaching or don't execute well and are looked at as a disappointment.

I want a lot of NFL talent for 3 reasons though. It helps in recruiting, we see players live out their dream of playing in the pros, and it is good recognition for our program. I would love to see us get to a point where we have 2-4 players drafted every year and at least 8+ who sign a contract or get a tryout. It definitely helps in recruiting when you pump out NFL players.

One thing to mention overall for the Sun Belt is that the league has more future NFL talent in it from 2020 and that return this year than ever before. Louisiana, App, Coastal, and South Alabama all have at least one player with a great shot to be drafted in 2022 and we MIGHT see 1-2 taken in the top 100 from the Sun Belt in 2022.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 am

AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm
Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.

I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.

We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStateNews » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:04 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm
Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.

I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.

We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.
You've mentioned in the past how everything isn't an argument -- yet, all you do is turn everything into an argument

All AppStateFan1 is saying is with the better name recognition, being ranked in the top 25 for the past couple of years, etc. it's not unfeasible to grab more kids we generally couldn't get before. Does that mean they are going to be better than what we have been getting? No. Sometimes it doesn't work out.

You guys are generally saying the same thing (I think). Continue doing what we are doing. Get players that want to be here and develop them. Main difference is AppStFan1 thinks we can expand on the type of talent we generally offer/pursue due to the success we have had. 5 years ago, we couldn't do that. Now we can. Nothing wrong with that.

Not everything is an argument.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 am

We all want APP to get the best players that they can. And by in large, we do. The record and the company that we keep in that category supports that. Will we occasionally win a legit head to head battle with some P5s? Yes. Will it happen consistently, doubtful. It’s the nature of the beast. The rationale that we need to scour the entire country to get the best 25 guys isn’t realistic and can prove detrimental to our DNA. Pointing out guys that got drafted from lower tiers that we could have had by spreading our resources with money we don’t have is just a pipe dream. It sounds great after the fact, but you recruit potential. It’s not an argument. It’s pointing out the flaws in the solution that he drew. He’s going to think what he wants to think because that’s what he knows. I’m out. Enjoy the rest of your day.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:38 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm
Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.

I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.

We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.
I never said that we have to have a roster of 85 NFL players. That won't even happen at Alabama. I just simply pointed out that there are enough bodies out there that it is possible to hit on a few more. Brian Quick is an example us being the only offer who panned out. Gamecocks missed bad on him but in high school he showed zero signs of a future NFL player like many of those on the list I sent you. I was just pointing out the misses. I can do that without attacking our staff. I would imagine our staff looks at it every year to see where we can get better.

There can be many reasons why we pass or miss like grades. That is my guess as to why Tarron Jackson only had a CCU offer. His film was really good.

The point is that our staff and others do miss and aren't perfect. Look at QB and TE. I don't know if anyone has done the math but we hit on about 12 of 25 in 2018, 11 of 19 from 2017, and 13 of 23 from 2016. That is about 53.7% hit rate. If you just hit on 50% of recruits you will have a pretty good team, as long as some of them are elite players in your league. I don't think 2019 class has had enough time to call for sure yet but as of now we have hit on just 6 of 18 (33.3%).

Imagine if that hit rate were to bump up to just 58-60%. Give us 3 more hits and we are at 58%. Those 3 players could have been a QB and the TE depth alone.

Everyone knows that all players are drafted based on what they did in college. Teams would be stupid to draft based on high school film.

I don't know why but you seem to jump at the chance to attack anything I say and put words in my mouth. I don't think I was mean to you. You just simply picked me out to do that with. I was just pointing out names for a discussion man. You can relax. You love to jump on me. I can't wait to hear what you twist with me giving stats on our hit rate. LOL

I'm still not sure why you even talk to us yokels, as you called us on 247. I read everything said on the 247 board and you come off as thinking very lowly of this board and want to attack me. I believe we are all App fans who want the best for our school so there is no need to attack each other like you seem to do here.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:43 am

AppStateNews wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:04 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm
Your list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.

I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.

We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.
You've mentioned in the past how everything isn't an argument -- yet, all you do is turn everything into an argument

All AppStateFan1 is saying is with the better name recognition, being ranked in the top 25 for the past couple of years, etc. it's not unfeasible to grab more kids we generally couldn't get before. Does that mean they are going to be better than what we have been getting? No. Sometimes it doesn't work out.

You guys are generally saying the same thing (I think). Continue doing what we are doing. Get players that want to be here and develop them. Main difference is AppStFan1 thinks we can expand on the type of talent we generally offer/pursue due to the success we have had. 5 years ago, we couldn't do that. Now we can. Nothing wrong with that.

Not everything is an argument.
I don't get it either. Like I said above, he thinks this board is completely full of yokels. He ran to ASM and pointed out what I said to get a reply from him.

There is no reason to think we can't expand a little bit or perhaps get more of our top of the board players. If we do that then we could perhaps improve our 3-year hit rate to 58-60%. I do think because of the 2019 class we may see that hit rate drop. The early returns on Drink's class are not going to be where we normally are. He went looking for names instead of hitting on pure talent and potential like we normally do.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:54 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 am
We all want APP to get the best players that they can. And by in large, we do. The record and the company that we keep in that category supports that. Will we occasionally win a legit head to head battle with some P5s? Yes. Will it happen consistently, doubtful. It’s the nature of the beast. The rationale that we need to scour the entire country to get the best 25 guys isn’t realistic and can prove detrimental to our DNA. Pointing out guys that got drafted from lower tiers that we could have had by spreading our resources with money we don’t have is just a pipe dream. It sounds great after the fact, but you recruit potential. It’s not an argument. It’s pointing out the flaws in the solution that he drew. He’s going to think what he wants to think because that’s what he knows. I’m out. Enjoy the rest of your day.
We do for the most part but like everyone else there are misses not just in evals but other G5s have beat us. It happens but overall we do a really good job for sure. I agree we will never beat P5s for the majority of our commits unless we are a P5.

I am just saying if we could get a few Zion Nelsons and D'Ante Smiths to stay with us, keep landing the Peoples, Hodges, Quicks, etc of the world, and then maybe hit on 1-2 more under the radar types.

Shawn has told people that he is very high on the impact the new facility will have. There is no reason not to expect the facility and constant winning to get us in the door with a tier of players we would not have 5 years ago. If we keep doing what we are doing and also expand our reach of talent caliber a little it should only help us as long as we don't abandon what we have done to get Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, ADG, Peoples, etc types as well.



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Re: 2021 Football Roster

Unread post by AppStateNews » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:03 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 am
We all want APP to get the best players that they can. And by in large, we do. The record and the company that we keep in that category supports that. Will we occasionally win a legit head to head battle with some P5s? Yes. Will it happen consistently, doubtful. It’s the nature of the beast. The rationale that we need to scour the entire country to get the best 25 guys isn’t realistic and can prove detrimental to our DNA. Pointing out guys that got drafted from lower tiers that we could have had by spreading our resources with money we don’t have is just a pipe dream. It sounds great after the fact, but you recruit potential. It’s not an argument. It’s pointing out the flaws in the solution that he drew. He’s going to think what he wants to think because that’s what he knows. I’m out. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Those were EXAMPLES -- not the end all, be all. Recruiting potential is precisely what he is saying. You just choose to not see that side of the discussion because you want to turn it into an argument. If it was someone else posting it, you wouldn't give a rats ass about the post. But, because AppStFan1 posted it, you turn it into an argument.

Look, I have no clue who either of you are (although, you seem to know who I am from previous posts -- which I highly doubt you do) but you constantly degrading his posts for no reason is old.

I do know for a FACT Clark and co are expanding their reach for recruits they would not have even considered offering 5 years ago. But, according to what you are saying, that is just a pipe dream and stupid to do. Guess Clark and company are stupid and have no idea what they are doing (how's that for twisting words like you do consistently to AppStFan1?). I know that's not what you're actually saying..

Again, you guys are saying the same thing. Continue doing what we are doing. Shape the board how we always have. However, the players at the top of the board should now be players we wouldn't have reached for before. Now we can. That is all AppStFan1 is saying.

I do agree expanding our geographical recruiting footprint a ton is not in the financial cards now.



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