Re: 2021 Football Roster
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:21 pm
We can and do take our cuts and offer, “better” players. You miss 100% of the recruits you don’t offer. But they have to be realistic in where they put their time and effort.
http://www.yosefscabin.com/forum/
We can get bigger, improve our depth of speed and talent, etc. Perhaps hit more at QB and TE. Expand our recruiting footprint to get more eyes on talent and thus increase the talent pool we can bring in. Until we are 3 deep at every position we can easily get better. For a couple specifics we can win more P5 battles that will help for one. Perhaps spread our recruiting footprint so we are strong in LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, OH, KY, TN, MO, MD, WV, and PA. That would give us more players to choose from.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:54 pmI am not following what you are actually trying to say. You like our success, which comes from good talent evaluation and development. But at the same time, you want to leverage the system that got us to this point to get better players? How are you defining the term “better”?
I know every player won't think that way but I would think the same way. If I'm a 4-star or high 3-star talent with low level P5 offers I rather go play immediately at UCF, Boise St, App, etc types than go sit for 2-3 years at VT or Tennessee types. I would rather go play immediately at App or UCF than sit for 3-4 years at Alabama before getting my shot as a 5th year senior even. They all have that P5 dream though so they figure they have to chase it. They also all think they can come in and beat out the guy ahead of them as well. They don't understand the politics of it. There would have been some at App say if Lance had wanted to transfer to App. Do you think we sit Thomas for Lance after all he has done even though Lance is the better player? No way that happens. The P5 school is not going to sit a guy who has put 3 years in and has similar talent for a true freshman unless that true freshman is head and shoulders elite compared to the guy who has been in the system.CornCobPipes wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:49 pmPutting my Mountaineer bias aside.......If I'm a young kid with strong football aspirations or an NFL dreamer AND I'm rated a 4 star player and getting overlooked by strong P5 programs or their depth chart looks menacing......I would be pouncing on an opportunity to play at APP STATE over any mediocre P5 program!
Definitely agree but there is plenty of future NFL Draft picks and top end college talent who land at lower schools than us that we could get. We are also getting to a point with facilities that I don't think a recruit can walk on campus and see a difference between us and many of these low level P5s now. We have very nice facilities and have an impressive stadium view, to go along with a good education and overall facilities, to offer these kids.
My point is that we have to get those players and develop them. We are getting in the door with even better players but the easiest way to improve our team without moving up to the AAC or a P5 league is to hit on more of these types that we develop. Look how many players we have developed over the years that became stars for us like Gaither, Hodges, Peoples, etc and imagine if you add just 3-5 of these types overall or per class to what we are getting already?WVAPPeer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:15 pmThe list you put together is interesting and thank you for taking the time to do that - but :>) with that being said it really doesn't point out one major factor - how good were these guys coming out of high school? You never know, heck JJ Watt had to walk-on at Wisconsin -
Also, if I am remembering correctly, which sometimes is questionable, we had more players drafted during our FCS years than during our FBS years - of course, that doesn't mean our teams were better during those years ---
Obviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pmYour list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
I don't care about the P5 offers and you are wrong that I would. Lindsay may pan out to be a star or he may bust. I was just saying that we have to land more P5 talent that they either miss or we beat them out unless we are suddenly going to expand our reach for guys like the Whitewater kid or better find more ADG, Evans, Quick, etc type players in the area. They are hard to come by on a yearly basis or else I would think we find it more.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:02 pmSo let me ask you this about the guys listed above. As giddy as you get to see our commits with P5 offers. Would you have been just as giddy, or concerned that we offered a kid whose only other offer was Wisconsin Whitewater or Concordia St. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have been thinking these guys would amount to much.
If you are a top 25 team every year then you will have a lot of talent go to the NFL. Of course there are exceptions, and I agree with you, but if you don't have an ounce of NFL talent you have no shot against A&M and UNC type teams that we face in 2022. There are teams loaded with NFL talent that don't have good coaching or don't execute well and are looked at as a disappointment.InFor6More wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:12 pmCan we just all agree that draft picks and any NFL related metric is a waste of time when discussing talent at the college level? I like getting guys drafted because I want to see them earn a living at the sport they love and because it helps continue the growth trajectory of our program, but from a product standpoint, we need to get the best talent we can in the areas we recruit, develop those players through conditioning and coaching, then put a cohesive unit on the field that can go out and execute a superior gameplan, taking advantage of our opponents weaknesses. Let’s put a consistent top 20 team on the field by doing those things and go beat up on prig 5 teams with our collection of 3 stars wearing chips on their shoulders.
I figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pmObviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pmYour list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.
We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
You've mentioned in the past how everything isn't an argument -- yet, all you do is turn everything into an argumentAppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 amI figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pmObviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pmYour list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.
We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I never said that we have to have a roster of 85 NFL players. That won't even happen at Alabama. I just simply pointed out that there are enough bodies out there that it is possible to hit on a few more. Brian Quick is an example us being the only offer who panned out. Gamecocks missed bad on him but in high school he showed zero signs of a future NFL player like many of those on the list I sent you. I was just pointing out the misses. I can do that without attacking our staff. I would imagine our staff looks at it every year to see where we can get better.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 amI figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pmObviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pmYour list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.
We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
I don't get it either. Like I said above, he thinks this board is completely full of yokels. He ran to ASM and pointed out what I said to get a reply from him.AppStateNews wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:04 amYou've mentioned in the past how everything isn't an argument -- yet, all you do is turn everything into an argumentAppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:19 amI figured it out. You are freaking delusional man. You just want to have all the nice toys to yourself. What you are saying is completely unrealistic in the real world that most of us live in. You don’t recruit depth, you develop it. You do that by recruiting kids that want to be here and want to work at their craft. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. It happens. You seem to want a roster full of NFL prospects. Those guys on your list from a previous post got drafted based on what they did when they got to their respective school. If they exhibited pro potential out of high school, they probably would have never enrolled at a lower division school. Have a great day.AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 pmObviously you have to be able to foreshadow and it is hard. You could say the same for us hitting on Brian Quick. Most did not touch him. They did not think he could play early enough. Another we signed who people were just as hesitant on was Jason Hunter. However, we hit there. It would definitely take a lot more money out there for sure. My point was simply that there is talent out there. The issue is getting to them. There are also very good players I could have added that were undrafted free agents. If I showed you that list then you would have seen though that there are way more out there that are as good as many of our guys.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pmYour list of players are based on current day. Sure, if we had the ability to foreshadow these guys development then what your saying would work. But it just isn’t practical. You list all these states that we need to hit to get eyes on kids, but who is going to pay for that? We aren’t swimming in money. You know that all those flights to and from California to lure DBG to Boone were paid for by donors. You know why? Because we didn’t have the money in the recruiting budget to afford it. The athletic department has to cover a sizable amount of scholarships because we can’t fully fund them through the Yosef Club, but you want to send our coaches all over the country kicking rocks over. You have Champagne taste on a PBR budget. That isn’t a recipe for success.
I don't have champagne taste and I understand we don't have the budget to hit on all of them. I'm just simply pointing out that they are out there. We need to see a wider talent pool but you also don't want to stretch too thin and hurt yourself in the bread and butter areas we have recruited. We can definitely stay in NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, VA, KY/OH/WV and put a top 25 team on the field every year.
We are getting in front of very good players now but sadly I don't see us really getting much better players. I feel like the only thing we can really do is hit on more guys and hope that these P5s miss a few studs a year because they offer so early and we land even more Jason Hunter, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, ADG, Evans, Peoples, etc types each year. We just have to not have the bad luck we have had at TE, QB, etc so those positions don't become one injury away from ruining a season.
All AppStateFan1 is saying is with the better name recognition, being ranked in the top 25 for the past couple of years, etc. it's not unfeasible to grab more kids we generally couldn't get before. Does that mean they are going to be better than what we have been getting? No. Sometimes it doesn't work out.
You guys are generally saying the same thing (I think). Continue doing what we are doing. Get players that want to be here and develop them. Main difference is AppStFan1 thinks we can expand on the type of talent we generally offer/pursue due to the success we have had. 5 years ago, we couldn't do that. Now we can. Nothing wrong with that.
Not everything is an argument.
We do for the most part but like everyone else there are misses not just in evals but other G5s have beat us. It happens but overall we do a really good job for sure. I agree we will never beat P5s for the majority of our commits unless we are a P5.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 amWe all want APP to get the best players that they can. And by in large, we do. The record and the company that we keep in that category supports that. Will we occasionally win a legit head to head battle with some P5s? Yes. Will it happen consistently, doubtful. It’s the nature of the beast. The rationale that we need to scour the entire country to get the best 25 guys isn’t realistic and can prove detrimental to our DNA. Pointing out guys that got drafted from lower tiers that we could have had by spreading our resources with money we don’t have is just a pipe dream. It sounds great after the fact, but you recruit potential. It’s not an argument. It’s pointing out the flaws in the solution that he drew. He’s going to think what he wants to think because that’s what he knows. I’m out. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Those were EXAMPLES -- not the end all, be all. Recruiting potential is precisely what he is saying. You just choose to not see that side of the discussion because you want to turn it into an argument. If it was someone else posting it, you wouldn't give a rats ass about the post. But, because AppStFan1 posted it, you turn it into an argument.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 amWe all want APP to get the best players that they can. And by in large, we do. The record and the company that we keep in that category supports that. Will we occasionally win a legit head to head battle with some P5s? Yes. Will it happen consistently, doubtful. It’s the nature of the beast. The rationale that we need to scour the entire country to get the best 25 guys isn’t realistic and can prove detrimental to our DNA. Pointing out guys that got drafted from lower tiers that we could have had by spreading our resources with money we don’t have is just a pipe dream. It sounds great after the fact, but you recruit potential. It’s not an argument. It’s pointing out the flaws in the solution that he drew. He’s going to think what he wants to think because that’s what he knows. I’m out. Enjoy the rest of your day.