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12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by Yosef10 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:35 pm

NavyApp wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:26 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:11 pm
Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:01 pm
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:09 pm
Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm


You’re sure Gillin would accept? There are those out there who think it’s a no go due to budget concerns, which i don’t necessarily disagree with. I just think it’s something you do and figure it out as you go along. I’m in the camp of I think we could compete now in the AAC even at our current budget. I guess the concern is the other sports, which to be frank I’m not as concerned about. We know what drives the bus.
Figure out a budget as you go along? App State printing money like the Federal Reserve?
That was said somewhat flippantly, but it is a budget of about $25M - you’d have about $6M/year extra from TV revenue. I think there’s a way to make $30M work for you, call me crazy.
Where are you getting that $6 million figure from?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... p/39229011

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the contracts have not been signed, said the deal will provide the conference with about $83.3 million per year, with each member school receiving an average of just under $7 million a year.


Article was written in 2019
There’s also a group who for some reason doesn’t believe the AAC will make as much as they are slated to make in 2021 from
TV alone and believe the financial gain in moving from SBC to AAC is negligible. Argue all you want about if App can compete in the AAC with its current budget, though following that logic means you think basically the entire AAC is better than App as it stands today (they’re not), but I can’t help but not take you serious if you don’t think it’s a significant financial advantage to be in the AAC vs SBC.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by Yosef10 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:38 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:33 pm
NavyApp wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:26 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:11 pm
Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:01 pm
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:09 pm


Figure out a budget as you go along? App State printing money like the Federal Reserve?
That was said somewhat flippantly, but it is a budget of about $25M - you’d have about $6M/year extra from TV revenue. I think there’s a way to make $30M work for you, call me crazy.
Where are you getting that $6 million figure from?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... p/39229011

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the contracts have not been signed, said the deal will provide the conference with about $83.3 million per year, with each member school receiving an average of just under $7 million a year.


Article was written in 2019
So the $6 million is taking into account what we are getting from the Sun Belt? $7 million minus $1 million = $6? Is that correct?
The ESPN contract with the SBC is for FAR less than $1M per year. You may be confusing it with bowl/playoff payouts, but the SBC contract with ESPN is about $500k/school per year.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:56 pm

I only ask to understand where the $6 million figure comes from. The AAC payout is an average of $7 million, but they distribute on a sliding scale so that $6 million figure isn’t guaranteed. If you are talking in terms of football only, then a $6 million dollar bump would put us in line with Cincy and Memphis. But we have 16 other programs that we can’t forsake at the expense of one. It really is a moot point as we are far down the list when we start checking of boxes for membership. Look at from the AAC’s POV and ask yourself, what does APP bring that benefits them holistically? The answer would be not much. Sorry to be blunt, but we just can’t offer what a Georgia St and a UAB can offer in terms of institutional advantages.

It’s a fun conversation but at the end of the day, it’s moot. The most likely way that we get a call is if they get poached of a combination of Cincy, Memphis, UCF, or Houston. If two of those four are gone, their TV deal probably changes and is that version really any better than the current Sun Belt? I’m not saying that we need to stay in the Sun Belt forever. But the decision has to be made from a holistic benefit and not just football. JMO.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:22 pm

It is really silly for App to go anywhere that Georgia Southern does not go. That rivalry is what makes the two programs what they are today. That is the reason The Sun Belt is in the position it is in today.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by Yosef10 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:53 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:22 pm
It is really silly for App to go anywhere that Georgia Southern does not go. That rivalry is what makes the two programs what they are today. That is the reason The Sun Belt is in the position it is in today.
With all due respect this is not true lol. The conference is in the position it is because of App, ULL, and CCU’s 2020 run. Hell, without GS we would have been in the NY6 and App and the conference would have made a lot of cash because of it.

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Re: 12 team playoff? Plan for all conference champs to be in

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:11 pm

Rekdiver wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:58 pm
I'd sue.....taft-hartley
Do you mean Sherman Anti-trust? Taft-Hartley is more about labor law and pensions. Sherman was about anti-competitive actions in the market place.
This is my very generic signature added to each post.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:39 am

Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:32 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:40 am
Yosef10 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:21 am
APPdiesel wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 am
It’s funny…I read message boards (I like to see if our fans sound as crazy as others). Some of us think we’re shoe-ins for the AAC because we have good football. Georgia State and UAB think they’re shoe-ins because “marketz”. JMU thinks they’re shoe-ins because of their facilities.

AAC fans don’t want any of us. A stray fan may say “App State for football only” but that gets shot down quickly. They want Army, Air Force, Boise State, or BYU (who they obviously won’t get). AAC fans only want a program that will instantly vault them into P6 status and the only program that could already turned them down.

Now obviously fans don’t make big decisions (and that’s a good thing because we’re all unhinged) but most AAC fans right now are saying “stay put at 11 until we have no other choice than to extend an invitation”.
I see no reason why the AAC would move off of 11, if we’re being honest App isn’t gonna add money to an AAC TV deal most likely and adding a team would just reduce money from the other 11.

That being said, I still find it wild that the AAC isn’t the goal for most App fans. The regional stuff is a pipe dream, ain’t happening. Now with the playoff expanding to 12 there’s a pretty decent to significant chance the AAC leaves the rest of the G5 behind, Mike Aresco said as much yesterday. I just don’t get why App fans want to get left behind, yet again, especially when we’ll have a brand new $50M facility sitting on the North side, pretty much going to waste. Money could have definitely been spent elsewhere. But hey, at least y’all will have driveable games to JMU again.
All of their fans are right about what they have going for them but UAB is the best shot of that group. JMU won't get to skip everyone and go straight to AAC from the FCS and Ga State is not good enough at football. I'm sure the AAC saw what happened to C-USA for just going after TV markets and how that has set them back on the field.

AAC definitely does not want anyone else at the moment but if they invite us we should jump for sure. The good news is that Gillin and those with a say would accept the invite so I'm glad they are in charge. Like you said, a regional conference would only set us back.

I wonder if the same people who don't think we should go to the AAC are the ones who warned that moving FBS would be a mistake?
You’re sure Gillin would accept? There are those out there who think it’s a no go due to budget concerns, which i don’t necessarily disagree with. I just think it’s something you do and figure it out as you go along. I’m in the camp of I think we could compete now in the AAC even at our current budget. I guess the concern is the other sports, which to be frank I’m not as concerned about. We know what drives the bus.
I believe the only way Gillin turns it down is if people above him stop it. I have heard from too many in the know that he wants to go to the AAC big time. I know Shawn Clark would love to be there as well. I think our leadership wants to see how high they can take our program and I'm willing to go along with it.

I am with you that I think we could compete in the AAC as long as we just raise our budget a little bit. We can figure it out as we go and we would certainly see a money increase in the AAC. I'm not too concerned about the other sports because, as you said, football drives the train. I hope all of our sports are doing well but football is my biggest concern and as long as we are competitive in basketball and baseball I can live with being in the bottom third of the rest of the sports.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:54 pm

Getting in the AAC is small time compared to what Appalachian wants to do, besides that, there are no big time markets in North Carolina besides Charlotte and even that is a big time stretch. Think about this, if Wake, Duke, Carolina, and State were not in the ACC when it formed as a regional conference then they would not even be considered relevant today, because those schools are not located in big time market areas.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by NavyApp » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:01 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:54 pm
Getting in the AAC is small time compared to what Appalachian wants to do, besides that, there are no big time markets in North Carolina besides Charlotte and even that is a big time stretch. Think about this, if Wake, Duke, Carolina, and State were not in the ACC when it formed as a regional conference then they would not even be considered relevant today, because those schools are not located in big time market areas.
Would you mind elaborating on this point for me?
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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:18 pm

The AAC wants to be big time, but they will always be small time., because they do not have regional historic rivalries that the P5 conferences have. What makes the SEC so powerful are the rivalries within the conferences.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:42 am

huskie3 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:55 pm
If they aren’t taking all 10 conference champs, then why change anything?
Because it’s not even remotely about fairness and “everyone’s guaranteed inclusion”. This is about money and ratings. They have to balance protecting the importance of regular season games with getting under-represented (PAC12) media markets to watch.

A “6 highest ranked conference champions”:
• gives all conferences a path to the playoff every year
• doesn’t guarantee a spot to anyone (it’s supposed to be hard to get in)
• ensures a fluke 4 loss CCG winner doesn’t get an auto bid
• gives the PAC12 a better chance of getting in
• gives the SEC and BIG10 an opportunity to get more teams in
• gives break out teams a chance irrespective of committee bias (remember, before a few years ago the committee wouldn’t dream of ranking a G5 higher than 16 or 17).
• gives the elites a first round bye
• slows realignment for the purpose of CFP access.
• and this is the biggie…generates uh-TON more money. NIL is coming, and if the NCAA wants to maintain any control over it they have to be the ones organizing the payments. The money has to come from somewhere.

12 is their attempt to stave off future expansion talks. 12 means everyone has a shot, so G5’s can’t complain they don’t have access anymore. It also means P5s generally get 10 or 11 teams in so they can’t complain about more inclusion. 8 means both sides continue to b***h and moan for years to come.
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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:11 am

I agree with 12 as a start. It took a while for FCS to go to 12, then 16, and now 24. The same will be true for FBS. As soon as conferences get auto bids, the conferences will split and reform as well.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by citroknight » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:15 am

AppWyo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:18 pm
The AAC wants to be big time, but they will always be small time., because they do not have regional historic rivalries that the P5 conferences have. What makes the SEC so powerful are the rivalries within the conferences.
Respectfully disagree on what's keeping the AAC small time. Rivalries are great but the key imo is bluebloods. Especially ones still having success. No G5 league has more stability and rivalry continuity than the MAC, and they're arguably the worst G5 league. The AAC is arguably the top G5 league and is a patchwork of mostly major metro universities.

If Texas and Oklahoma left the B12 for the AAC, the AAC would be considered a power conference and the leftovers of the B12 would just be a great plains equivalent of the Mountain West. Like you pointed out in another post, a lot of these P5 schools were just lucky to be in the right place to be associated with each other in a league centered around a blueblood or two. Historic rivalries wouldn't elevate the AAC.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am

It is always easy to blame your problems on someone else, but I do agree that the haves want to keep on having and the have nots keep having not.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:24 pm

citroknight wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:15 am
AppWyo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:18 pm
The AAC wants to be big time, but they will always be small time., because they do not have regional historic rivalries that the P5 conferences have. What makes the SEC so powerful are the rivalries within the conferences.
Respectfully disagree on what's keeping the AAC small time. Rivalries are great but the key imo is bluebloods. Especially ones still having success. No G5 league has more stability and rivalry continuity than the MAC, and they're arguably the worst G5 league. The AAC is arguably the top G5 league and is a patchwork of mostly major metro universities.

If Texas and Oklahoma left the B12 for the AAC, the AAC would be considered a power conference and the leftovers of the B12 would just be a great plains equivalent of the Mountain West. Like you pointed out in another post, a lot of these P5 schools were just lucky to be in the right place to be associated with each other in a league centered around a blueblood or two. Historic rivalries wouldn't elevate the AAC.
Your example of Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big12 is a great one. And in my opinion, this thought is what keeps Aresco up at night. Not that he thinks Texas and Oklahoma are leaving but what happens to his conference if “his” blue bloods left. If he loses two of his big four, (UCF, Memphis, Cincy, or Houston), what happens to the relevancy of the AAC? He is screaming so loudly because he knows that he is in no mans land. He can’t add anyone that makes the AAC a bigger player than he is; and he can’t afford to lose anyone without risking falling back.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by citroknight » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:54 pm

His saving grace might be that there very possibly may not be any ships left out to P5 land. The top 2/3s of the conference would leave for the B12 in a heartbeat. Hell, I think we would leave for a B12 without Texas and Oklahoma because it would form the next best of the rest conference like the AAC currently is and allow us a chance to leave behind the bottom of the AAC.

If the AAC loses 2 of their "bluebloods", any gap it had over the other G5 is gone. If it loses 4, it's fighting with the MAC and CUSA for the bottom spot.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by ah59396 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:03 pm

citroknight wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:54 pm
His saving grace might be that there very possibly may not be any ships left out to P5 land. The top 2/3s of the conference would leave for the B12 in a heartbeat. Hell, I think we would leave for a B12 without Texas and Oklahoma because it would form the next best of the rest conference like the AAC currently is and allow us a chance to leave behind the bottom of the AAC.

If the AAC loses 2 of their "bluebloods", any gap it had over the other G5 is gone. If it loses 4, it's fighting with the MAC and CUSA for the bottom spot.
I actually think the AAC’s depth is it’s strong suit. It’s bottom 6 teams are better than any other G5 bottom 6. I mean Houston came in 6th. I’m taking them over Texas State or Miami-Oh.
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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:12 pm

citroknight wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:54 pm
His saving grace might be that there very possibly may not be any ships left out to P5 land. The top 2/3s of the conference would leave for the B12 in a heartbeat. Hell, I think we would leave for a B12 without Texas and Oklahoma because it would form the next best of the rest conference like the AAC currently is and allow us a chance to leave behind the bottom of the AAC.

If the AAC loses 2 of their "bluebloods", any gap it had over the other G5 is gone. If it loses 4, it's fighting with the MAC and CUSA for the bottom spot.
Again, all very good points. The AAC may not have anyone that the P5s want. But here is my question should they, does that effectively alter the current media deal and how much of a hit would it be to the leftover members in terms of financial windfalls if the contract is renegotiated. If we are looking at football as the driver, I think that you could add Louisiana and APP and not fall too far off in the level of football, but neither can give you the negotiating power with media.

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by pop5app » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:32 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:42 am
huskie3 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:55 pm
If they aren’t taking all 10 conference champs, then why change anything?
Because it’s not even remotely about fairness and “everyone’s guaranteed inclusion”. This is about money and ratings. They have to balance protecting the importance of regular season games with getting under-represented (PAC12) media markets to watch.

A “6 highest ranked conference champions”:
• gives all conferences a path to the playoff every year
• doesn’t guarantee a spot to anyone (it’s supposed to be hard to get in)
• ensures a fluke 4 loss CCG winner doesn’t get an auto bid
• gives the PAC12 a better chance of getting in
• gives the SEC and BIG10 an opportunity to get more teams in
• gives break out teams a chance irrespective of committee bias (remember, before a few years ago the committee wouldn’t dream of ranking a G5 higher than 16 or 17).
• gives the elites a first round bye
• slows realignment for the purpose of CFP access.
• and this is the biggie…generates uh-TON more money. NIL is coming, and if the NCAA wants to maintain any control over it they have to be the ones organizing the payments. The money has to come from somewhere.

12 is their attempt to stave off future expansion talks. 12 means everyone has a shot, so G5’s can’t complain they don’t have access anymore. It also means P5s generally get 10 or 11 teams in so they can’t complain about more inclusion. 8 means both sides continue to b***h and moan for years to come.
Pretty good breakdown! Now the problem will become “ranking”. I suspect 8-3 Iowa State or 8-3 Auburn will be “ranked” ahead of most if not all G 5s regardless of record. Perhaps a team or 2 from the AAC might sneak in ahead. Still a beauty contest with polls! Get rid of them!

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:21 pm

pop5app wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:32 pm
Pretty good breakdown! Now the problem will become “ranking”. I suspect 8-3 Iowa State or 8-3 Auburn will be “ranked” ahead of most if not all G 5s regardless of record. Perhaps a team or 2 from the AAC might sneak in ahead. Still a beauty contest with polls! Get rid of them!
Come on you can’t be serious. We’ve got a clearly defined path to the playoff and now you have a problem with rankings (I assume in regards to an at large)?
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