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12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by NavyApp » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:57 pm

ah59396 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 am
NavyApp wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:31 am
NeersBy90 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:10 am
sixtoes9134 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:48 am
Seems to me the most fair would be the top 12 teams in the country as of the last poll after all the conference championships have been played.
This would effectively maintain the status quo unless they change the selection process (which I don't see them doing). The rankings they use for the CFP are decided on by the committee which is more or less comprised exclusively of P5 pundits. If they control the rankings, any G5 school (except MAYBE the AAC Champ) would be lucky to get a bid without a guaranteed spot.
THIS!!!! The truth of the matter is when the playoff expands to 12 teams you will see G5s drop in the rankings, regardless of merit. Like you mentioned the polls are controlled by the p5 so they will make sure they have 11 of the 12 seats at the table. This is not about deciding the "best" team on the field it's about increasing revenue by incorporating more blue blood fan bases in this charade.
I sort of agree with this. Historically though, once you get to the 10-15 spots you start encountering 2 & 3 loss teams. Would we see a 3 loss SEC team at 12 over a second undefeated G5? Maybe?

Either way, if there’s a shot to be there I’m excited. People want to yell “cartel” but honestly, what’s more impressive:

Going undefeated in the Sun Belt
Or
Going 8-2 in the SEC

If App got to do both I know which one I’d pick. Which is why they deserve more slots.
Holistically I would agree with your assessment. For me though, I believe the top end of the G5 is closing the gap on the middle/top of the P5s over the past 5 years. Look no further than our own conference and how much more competitive our conference has become over that time frame. With that being said I believe a second undefeated G5 or even a one loss G5 would have the same rate of success against the elites as the 3 loss P5s. The thing is we will never get to see it play out. It is easy to fall back and say that the P5s are better and deeper than their G5 counterparts and to an extent that is true but outside of the SEC what conference really DESERVES more than 1 representative? Not the ACC as of late, definitely not the Pac12, not the Big10, not the Big10.

So what holds the upper echelon of G5s back in claiming those 6 at large bids? Scheduling and perception. What has been a hot topic from middle of the pack P5s with faux dreams of championship? They don't want to schedule G5 games anymore because it "hurts their strength of schedule" but really it's they don't want the fall out of losing to what they perceive as an inferior opponent. So opportunity for G5 programs to prove their worth is dwindling (look no further than how hard it is for us to schedule our own instate P5 teams), our conferences are dismissed as weak, so basically it's an impossible hill to climb. A team from the SEC could get shellacked 3 times, not win their division and still have a greater chance at being in the top 12.

So again your points are true and I agree with you, but the system is stacked against G5 programs and has been for a long time. This would just be the cherry on top.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by BeauFoster » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:00 pm

Mark my words, all this will eventually accomplish is setting up a new 1-AA. It’s already been suggested in this thread, an “NIT type tournament” for those who don’t get into the “big dance”. There will be a P5 champ and a G5 champ and we’re back to our rightful little brother status (rightful as in where the P5s want us).


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by Black Saturday » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:18 pm

BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:00 pm
Mark my words, all this will eventually accomplish is setting up a new 1-AA. It’s already been suggested in this thread, an “NIT type tournament” for those who don’t get into the “big dance”. There will be a P5 champ and a G5 champ and we’re back to our rightful little brother status (rightful as in where the P5s want us).
We are just glorified FCS now, imo. Although, I wouldn't want to return to the FCS or I-AA.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:29 pm

BeauFoster wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:00 pm
Mark my words, all this will eventually accomplish is setting up a new 1-AA. It’s already been suggested in this thread, an “NIT type tournament” for those who don’t get into the “big dance”. There will be a P5 champ and a G5 champ and we’re back to our rightful little brother status (rightful as in where the P5s want us).
I could see a very real situation where the AAC eventually gets an AQ. Especially if they figure out a way to get SDSU, BYU and Boise. I know the talks are “dead”, but they never really are.

There would not be a weak brand in that conference of 14 and the remaining G5 MAC/Sun Belt/CUSA/MWC leftovers would have to figure out our future.

We really need to make the NY6 ASAP. And win it.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppFan11 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Let’s be real…. Just a quick look at three or four SEC team schedules the three or four Big10 schedules really shows the differences…. SEC teams play 9 P5 teams and the teams I looked at in Big 10 (OSU,UM, Wisc) all play 10 P5 games….. pretty apparent . Even BYU who plays 5 P5 teams will have to go undefeated to get a sniff. I think if G5 gets one slot.. we’re lucky considering we play one or two P5 teams per season.



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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by NavyApp » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:03 pm

AppFan11 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:31 pm
Let’s be real…. Just a quick look at three or four SEC team schedules the three or four Big10 schedules really shows the differences…. SEC teams play 9 P5 teams and the teams I looked at in Big 10 (OSU,UM, Wisc) all play 10 P5 games….. pretty apparent . Even BYU who plays 5 P5 teams will have to go undefeated to get a sniff. I think if G5 gets one slot.. we’re lucky considering we play one or two P5 teams per season.
Yes OSU, UM, and Wisc all play 10 "P5" games this upcoming year. Wisc has 1 G5 game against a bottom feeding MAC school, OSU and UM havetwo Akron, Tulsa(OSU) and NIU,WMich(UM). Not exactly affording the top G5 programs a chance to showcase themselves and why should the P5 do that. To your point about the 10 "P5" games, are they 10 quality games? Most certainly not. Purdue, Illinois, Nebraska, Maryland would all struggle to be top half of the sun belt at best. Rutgers may be turning things around or maybe they are still Rutgers, Northwestern (while I love their coach and how they run their program) is due some regression as is Minnesota (neither were world beaters anyway, just afforded the opportunity). While saying they play 10 P5 games is a cool sentence it doesn't equate to 10 tough opponents.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by NeersBy90 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:15 pm

ah59396 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 am
NavyApp wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:31 am
NeersBy90 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:10 am
sixtoes9134 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:48 am
Seems to me the most fair would be the top 12 teams in the country as of the last poll after all the conference championships have been played.
This would effectively maintain the status quo unless they change the selection process (which I don't see them doing). The rankings they use for the CFP are decided on by the committee which is more or less comprised exclusively of P5 pundits. If they control the rankings, any G5 school (except MAYBE the AAC Champ) would be lucky to get a bid without a guaranteed spot.
THIS!!!! The truth of the matter is when the playoff expands to 12 teams you will see G5s drop in the rankings, regardless of merit. Like you mentioned the polls are controlled by the p5 so they will make sure they have 11 of the 12 seats at the table. This is not about deciding the "best" team on the field it's about increasing revenue by incorporating more blue blood fan bases in this charade.
I sort of agree with this. Historically though, once you get to the 10-15 spots you start encountering 2 & 3 loss teams. Would we see a 3 loss SEC team at 12 over a second undefeated G5? Maybe?

Either way, if there’s a shot to be there I’m excited. People want to yell “cartel” but honestly, what’s more impressive:

Going undefeated in the Sun Belt
Or
Going 8-2 in the SEC

If App got to do both I know which one I’d pick. Which is why they deserve more slots.
If that 3 loss SEC team was Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida or LSU... Yes we would more than likely see a 3 loss SEC team in over a 2nd undefeated G5 school.

People will yell "cartel" because that's effectively what it is. Until the CFP Committee has some legitimate G5 representation, we will never see a 2nd G5 in any playoff scenario. Thats the real issue here.



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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by Tbatchelor1977 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:38 pm

I sort of agree with this. Historically though, once you get to the 10-15 spots you start encountering 2 & 3 loss teams. Would we see a 3 loss SEC team at 12 over a second undefeated G5? Maybe?

Either way, if there’s a shot to be there I’m excited. People want to yell “cartel” but honestly, what’s more impressive:

Going undefeated in the Sun Belt
Or
Going 8-2 in the SEC

If App got to do both I know which one I’d pick. Which is why they deserve more slots.
[/quote]

I would take 8-2, 9-3, etc. every year if we play in the SEC and played those types of teams each year, even the average SEC teams. For me, an easy answer. I do not get excited to see ULM, Texas St. However, I would be excited to see Ole Miss, Miss St, etc.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:46 pm

I wonder if a football only AAC invite was ever branched our way. I’d jump at that immediately.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppFan11 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:21 pm

Hey Navy, did anybody say it’s the toughest schedule for the Big 10? One of the major criteria is how many P5, G5 and FCS games each team plays. When any P5 team plays 9-10 P5 games and the G5 team play one or two…….. yes the committee will always take a 3 loss P5 over an undefeated G5……. Unless it’s a designated G5 slot….. and they should.



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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by NavyApp » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:29 pm

AppFan11 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:21 pm
Hey Navy, did anybody say it’s the toughest schedule for the Big 10? One of the major criteria is how many P5, G5 and FCS games each team plays. When any P5 team plays 9-10 P5 games and the G5 team play one or two…….. yes the committee will always take a 3 loss P5 over an undefeated G5……. Unless it’s a designated G5 slot….. and they should.
My point is that it is becoming harder for G5 programs to schedule quality P5 games. They have decided to close ranks to box out the G5. The P5 have no desire to prove anything on the field. If there was an honest solution to creating the best college football landscape it would be to scrap all the current conferences and start with new regional conferences. Then have a playoff with conference champs and X amount of at large teams. Honestly speaking there are only 4-6 teams in a given year that are far and away better than everyone after that it's really a mixed bag.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppFan11 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:50 pm

I don’t disagree with that. When they went to the CFP system, they drew a line in the sand, and said “we are the ones spending all the money and we should be the ones making all the money.” They gave the G5 some scraps, which is the slot in the NY6 bowl game…. to the highest ranked conference champion G5. I always saw that like “our National Championship “….. in extraordinary years, we could and do compete for that slot. Playoffs are off limits to G5 in this system. Could we schedule four P5 games per year? Certainly we could, are they all going to be against UGA…. nope… but they wouldn’t have to be for us to have a significant advantage say on SOS against any G5 team. Win those and go undefeated….. you would almost certainly be the G5 rep for NY6.



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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by beav910 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:05 pm

Not to be doom and gloom but are we left behind if we don't get an invite to the AAC in this next round of realignment? Guess it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to be in FCS 2.0.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppinVA » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:36 pm

ah59396 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:46 pm
I wonder if a football only AAC invite was ever branched our way. I’d jump at that immediately.
Only if there was no way we could be voted out arbitrarily. I could get behind us going to the American for football, VCU for the other sports, and us taking their place in the A-10.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by APPdiesel » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm

Arguing just the merits of the proposed 6 auto bids and 6 at-large bids structure...

A G5 auto bid means we don't have to compete against the resumes of teams ranked 10-15...we wouldn't be involved in this subjectivity battle comparing an undefeated G5 season vs a 2-3 loss P5 season. We'd have to compete against the resumes of the top end of the AAC, MW, CUSA and MAC. A guaranteed seat at the table plus the (very) off chance of an at large. It'd lead to more Memphis-App State matchups because both teams need to play for ranking.

I don't hate the thought of that.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppinVA » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm

beav910 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:05 pm
Not to be doom and gloom but are we left behind if we don't get an invite to the AAC in this next round of realignment? Guess it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to be in FCS 2.0.
I don’t think so (yeah, I know what I just said). The Sun Belt brand in football has come a long way in a short amount of time to be considered second G5 league alongside the MW. Why can’t it continue to build and become a rival to the AAC? Six short years ago, we were, by far, considered to be the fifth league in the G5. Now, we have three top-25 caliber programs (including us). We are not that far behind.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:58 pm

AppinVA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:36 pm
ah59396 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:46 pm
I wonder if a football only AAC invite was ever branched our way. I’d jump at that immediately.
Only if there was no way we could be voted out arbitrarily. I could get behind us going to the American for football, VCU for the other sports, and us taking their place in the A-10.
Agreed. And to be clear I’d want all sports to join the AAC. But sometimes getting your foot in the door is the best option.

If we get a seat at the table with football only and then find ourselves able to renegotiate all sports 3-5 years in, it’s a heck of a lot easier if we already have a presence.
AppinVA wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm
[quote=beav910 post_id=282565 time=<a href="tel:1623276316">1623276316</a> user_id=5588]
Not to be doom and gloom but are we left behind if we don't get an invite to the AAC in this next round of realignment? Guess it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to be in FCS 2.0.
I don’t think so (yeah, I know what I just said). The Sun Belt brand in football has come a long way in a short amount of time to be considered second G5 league alongside the MW. Why can’t it continue to build and become a rival to the AAC? Six short years ago, we were, by far, considered to be the fifth league in the G5. Now, we have three top-25 caliber programs (including us). We are not that far behind.
[/quote]

Personally I struggle to see us competing consistently with the AAC. At some point, fans/donors/attendance/brand/budget/endowment all matter.

Certainly there will be seasons where the Sun Belt is par with the AAC but it’ll be the exception. The AAC has NINE coaches making more than our highest paid in the SBC, Napier. Hell Dana Holgorsen at Houston makes more than Mike Norvell makes at Florida State.

Doesn’t mean we can’t compete, but stuff like that matters over the long term.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by AppWyo » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:17 pm

I do not understand why anyone would want to be in the AAC, when you would have the same situation that we are in with the Sunbelt, with a bunch of teams we do not know. When what we really need is to be in a regional conference that students can road trip to while in college. Why chase the rainbow when you can wait for the rainbow come to you or even better create your own rainbow with a regional conference made up of Appalachian, East Carolina, A&T, Liberty, Marshal, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern. Sign a streaming service contract with Netflix and the conference will be flush with cash.



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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by ah59396 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:27 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:17 pm
I do not understand why anyone would want to be in the AAC, when you would have the same situation that we are in with the Sunbelt, with a bunch of teams we do not know. When what we really need is to be in a regional conference that students can road trip to while in college. Why chase the rainbow when you can wait for the rainbow come to you or even better create your own rainbow with a regional conference made up of Appalachian, East Carolina, A&T, Liberty, Marshal, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern. Sign a streaming service contract with Netflix and the conference will be flush with cash.
Ask ECU if they want to leave the AAC for your conference….

And there’s literally zero incentive to do a streaming deal. We have 6 ESPN games this year. We need casual fans. No one is stumbling across an App State - NC A&T game on Netflix. I shudder to even imagine that.


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Re: 12 team playoff? All P5 conference champs to be in, 1 G5 Champ, six at large

Unread post by /\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:51 pm

Last I asked D.G. about a regional conference he said there were no talks with other schools at that time...I wonder if that has changed.



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