2021 depth

[bigdaddyg]

I can’t speak for everyone else but I wouldn’t have cared to make an assessment on his game if he wasn’t coming here. I get why some are skeptical and I understand the wait and see approach. That’s all we can do. I just don’t see a reason to be concerned. Yes, his individual statistics last year were atrocious. But, there are a lot of factors that went into those stats that often get overlooked or discounted. They need to be factored in to get an accurate assessment. Mechanically, he is sound. He showed enough fundamental talent to garner a scholarship to one of the best college programs in the country. He was recruited, as a transfer, by arguably the best QB guru in the game. He has talent, and those with eyes for talent, have noticed. So, I am optimistic that CB will be fine. He has a running game this year to keep defenses honest. He has a plethora of receivers that thrive in one on one matchups, and yes, (forgive me Lord for saying this to the masses), he is a better passer than ZT. That is all.

To piggyback on one of these points - App rushed for over 100 more yards a game (on 5 more attempts) than Duke last season, and we have a stable of backs coming back. We passed for ~40 less (on 5 fewer attempts). CB will come is as a game manager and will be asked to run the game much in the same way ZT was (and those before him). He’s unlikely to be asked to throw 50 times a game unless teams stack the box in order to stop the run. If that happens, I believe he’s capable of throwing effectively to the plethora of targets he will have on the field. He’s coming into a better situation than he was in at Duke, and I believe it will show.

Totally agree. If teams load the box with 8 defenders and the guys we have outside can’t beat one on one coverage we just aren’t any good. If CB ever has to throw the ball (or we game plan) 50 times a game our offensive coordinator needs a drug test. I can easily see something like a 15-25 220 yard type game from him to go with a 3-4 headed rushing attack for LOTS of yards.

[AppSt94]

I can’t speak for everyone else but I wouldn’t have cared to make an assessment on his game if he wasn’t coming here. I get why some are skeptical and I understand the wait and see approach. That’s all we can do. I just don’t see a reason to be concerned. Yes, his individual statistics last year were atrocious. But, there are a lot of factors that went into those stats that often get overlooked or discounted. They need to be factored in to get an accurate assessment. Mechanically, he is sound. He showed enough fundamental talent to garner a scholarship to one of the best college programs in the country. He was recruited, as a transfer, by arguably the best QB guru in the game. He has talent, and those with eyes for talent, have noticed. So, I am optimistic that CB will be fine. He has a running game this year to keep defenses honest. He has a plethora of receivers that thrive in one on one matchups, and yes, (forgive me Lord for saying this to the masses), he is a better passer than ZT. That is all.

To piggyback on one of these points - App rushed for over 100 more yards a game (on 5 more attempts) than Duke last season, and we have a stable of backs coming back. We passed for ~40 less (on 5 fewer attempts). CB will come is as a game manager and will be asked to run the game much in the same way ZT was (and those before him). He’s unlikely to be asked to throw 50 times a game unless teams stack the box in order to stop the run. If that happens, I believe he’s capable of throwing effectively to the plethora of targets he will have on the field. He’s coming into a better situation than he was in at Duke, and I believe it will show.

Totally agree. If teams load the box with 8 defenders and the guys we have outside can’t beat one on one coverage we just aren’t any good. If CB ever has to throw the ball (or we game plan) 50 times a game our offensive coordinator needs a drug test. I can easily see something like a 15-25 220 yard type game from him to go with a 3-4 headed rushing attack for LOTS of yards.

Agree with all of this. We avg 45 running plays a game. 25 pass attempts would be 70 offensive plays a game. That’s a recipe for success.

[CornCobPipes]

It's early game of wait and see what we have in the bag right now as we all know. Yes, like many have stressed, my concern is how well CB comes in and leads this O. I have no doubts at this point that he is a better passer than ZT. However, I don't foresee him being more agile and definitely not as quick and fast. So the question becomes is his release extremely quick to offset the forementioned? Is the tradeoffs between his passing and ZTs run threat rate in the positive direction. Folks forget how ZTs threat to tuck it enabled our RBs and run game.

Right now my bigger concern since MW Jr will not be back is how well will Jahmir Smith come into the mix? Besides CP I don't see the stable that strong as indicated unless DH stays healthy along with everyone else and JS stepping in and shocking folks.

Keep in mind when I make these assessments...I imagine how we can potentially fair against a decent to strong P5 competitor.

Also understand, our offense style in the past has made our RBs instead of our RBs making our offense. There is a difference in today's game.
Unless you have a stud 4 Star or 5 Star back and a P5 OL I don't see any RB making an offense click.

[AppSt94]

To answer your questions around CB. The answers are all yes.

I don’t anticipate DH playing this year.

I think that Smith will be fine. He should be able to handle the expected load and more if necessary. He is a big, physical body that will pound on worn out defenses late in the game.

['75App]

Brice will be working behind a better OL this year than he had a dook last year! Only concerning thing is the number of interceptions he threw but I guess that's directly related to the OL. Guess we will have to wait and see how he does.

GO APPS!!

[AppSt94]

Brice will be working behind a better OL this year than he had a dook last year! Only concerning thing is the number of interceptions he threw but I guess that's directly related to the OL. Guess we will have to wait and see how he does.

GO APPS!!

I would add that he has better receivers here in relation to the opposition’s secondary.

[CornCobPipes]

I thought DH was going to be a go....that stings.

[AppSt94]

I thought DH was going to be a go....that stings.

Second ACL tear. Dude is a beast at rehab and recovery, It’s a lot to expect him to be 100% by October, one year from the injury.

[Gonzo]

Brice was good enough for the coaches, and that’s good enough for me.

Just curious. How would you guys have felt about getting a kid with great stats from a lower division school?

What do you think our assesssement of Brice would have been if he had transferred to one of our SBC peers? I just think most outside observers are taking a wait and see attitude based on his one season where he was the starter. I don't think that's an unreasonable take for those folks. I'm not sure what you expect them to do otherwise.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I wouldn’t have cared to make an assessment on his game if he wasn’t coming here. I get why some are skeptical and I understand the wait and see approach. That’s all we can do. I just don’t see a reason to be concerned. Yes, his individual statistics last year were atrocious. But, there are a lot of factors that went into those stats that often get overlooked or discounted. They need to be factored in to get an accurate assessment. Mechanically, he is sound. He showed enough fundamental talent to garner a scholarship to one of the best college programs in the country. He was recruited, as a transfer, by arguably the best QB guru in the game. He has talent, and those with eyes for talent, have noticed. So, I am optimistic that CB will be fine. He has a running game this year to keep defenses honest. He has a plethora of receivers that thrive in one on one matchups, and yes, (forgive me Lord for saying this to the masses), he is a better passer than ZT. That is all.

I wasn't worried about Chase until we signed Huesman for a super senior year.

I'm no insider, but it was my understanding that some '20 seniors were invited to return and others were not. Some that were offered declined. Some time later our coaches got out with the new QB room and decided, "actually, let's invite Jacob back." To me that at LEAST signaled that Navy is a bust and DC isn't going to be ready to be a reliable number two. When there was talk about a "QB battle" I concluded that maybe Chase himself is disappointing everyone. Of course a QB battle announcement can be coach speak and it could be a ploy to light a competitive fire under Chase. My current uneducated prediction is a mix: that the QB depth issue plus the benefit of having a player who is very familiar with our offense working with Chase is the reason for the decision to resign Jacob. I agree that Chase CLEARLY has loads of talent. And from what I hear he's an outstanding leader. But it is disappointing to know that we've whiffed so many times in a row at recruiting QBs (Brown, DBG, Navy).

Honestly I'm much more worried about rebuilding the O-line that seemed to struggle pass blocking against good teams last years. And I worry, frankly, that Cardwell is in over his head. I think that unit will be the difference between a 9 win season and a 12 win season. And ironically it will probably dictate most people's opinion on Chase Brice.

As the OP suggests, skill positions on this offense are at a level this conference has never seen.

[AppSt94]

Brice was good enough for the coaches, and that’s good enough for me.

Just curious. How would you guys have felt about getting a kid with great stats from a lower division school?

What do you think our assesssement of Brice would have been if he had transferred to one of our SBC peers? I just think most outside observers are taking a wait and see attitude based on his one season where he was the starter. I don't think that's an unreasonable take for those folks. I'm not sure what you expect them to do otherwise.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I wouldn’t have cared to make an assessment on his game if he wasn’t coming here. I get why some are skeptical and I understand the wait and see approach. That’s all we can do. I just don’t see a reason to be concerned. Yes, his individual statistics last year were atrocious. But, there are a lot of factors that went into those stats that often get overlooked or discounted. They need to be factored in to get an accurate assessment. Mechanically, he is sound. He showed enough fundamental talent to garner a scholarship to one of the best college programs in the country. He was recruited, as a transfer, by arguably the best QB guru in the game. He has talent, and those with eyes for talent, have noticed. So, I am optimistic that CB will be fine. He has a running game this year to keep defenses honest. He has a plethora of receivers that thrive in one on one matchups, and yes, (forgive me Lord for saying this to the masses), he is a better passer than ZT. That is all.

I wasn't worried about Chase until we signed Huesman for a super senior year.

I'm no insider, but it was my understanding that some '20 seniors were invited to return and others were not. Some that were offered declined. Some time later our coaches got out with the new QB room and decided, "actually, let's invite Jacob back." To me that at LEAST signaled that Navy is a bust and DC isn't going to be ready to be a reliable number two. When there was talk about a "QB battle" I concluded that maybe Chase himself is disappointing everyone. Of course a QB battle announcement can be coach speak and it could be a ploy to light a competitive fire under Chase. My current uneducated prediction is a mix: that the QB depth issue plus the benefit of having a player who is very familiar with our offense working with Chase is the reason for the decision to resign Jacob. I agree that Chase CLEARLY has loads of talent. And from what I hear he's an outstanding leader. But it is disappointing to know that we've whiffed so many times in a row at recruiting QBs (Brown, DBG, Navy).

Honestly I'm much more worried about rebuilding the O-line that seemed to struggle pass blocking against good teams last years. And I worry, frankly, that Cardwell is in over his head. I think that unit will be the difference between a 9 win season and a 12 win season. And ironically it will probably dictate most people's opinion on Chase Brice.

As the OP suggests, skill positions on this offense are at a level this conference has never seen.

Don’t forget about Daniel David.

[appstate77]

2022 depth doesn't look bad either with Covid Seniors, should they return.

[Black Saturday]

I don’t follow daily so forgive me if it’s already been discussed. But considering the concession of seniors returning due to COVID last season being granted an extra year of eligibility, who else is thinking we are STACKED at WR and RB?

This list probably doesn’t account for all but….

Hennigan
Sutton
Malik
Virgil
Fresh and soph standouts from last year, plus incoming freshman talent…. Stacked!

Not to mention studs at RB and Defense…

If we get a standout at QB I smell a NY6 birth alas! LFG!

how is our O line looking?

[AppSt94]

2022 depth doesn't look bad either with Covid Seniors, should they return.

Keep in mind that the process would have to be managed a bit differently next year. For 2021, you can be over the 85 max. As of now, that won’t be the case for 2022. So you have to balance your incoming with your outgoing to get to 85. That is part of the reason for this class being smallish.

[The Rock]

Brice was good enough for the coaches, and that’s good enough for me.

Just curious. How would you guys have felt about getting a kid with great stats from a lower division school?

What do you think our assesssement of Brice would have been if he had transferred to one of our SBC peers? I just think most outside observers are taking a wait and see attitude based on his one season where he was the starter. I don't think that's an unreasonable take for those folks. I'm not sure what you expect them to do otherwise.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I wouldn’t have cared to make an assessment on his game if he wasn’t coming here. I get why some are skeptical and I understand the wait and see approach. That’s all we can do. I just don’t see a reason to be concerned. Yes, his individual statistics last year were atrocious. But, there are a lot of factors that went into those stats that often get overlooked or discounted. They need to be factored in to get an accurate assessment. Mechanically, he is sound. He showed enough fundamental talent to garner a scholarship to one of the best college programs in the country. He was recruited, as a transfer, by arguably the best QB guru in the game. He has talent, and those with eyes for talent, have noticed. So, I am optimistic that CB will be fine. He has a running game this year to keep defenses honest. He has a plethora of receivers that thrive in one on one matchups, and yes, (forgive me Lord for saying this to the masses), he is a better passer than ZT. That is all.

I wasn't worried about Chase until we signed Huesman for a super senior year.

I'm no insider, but it was my understanding that some '20 seniors were invited to return and others were not. Some that were offered declined. Some time later our coaches got out with the new QB room and decided, "actually, let's invite Jacob back." To me that at LEAST signaled that Navy is a bust and DC isn't going to be ready to be a reliable number two. When there was talk about a "QB battle" I concluded that maybe Chase himself is disappointing everyone. Of course a QB battle announcement can be coach speak and it could be a ploy to light a competitive fire under Chase. My current uneducated prediction is a mix: that the QB depth issue plus the benefit of having a player who is very familiar with our offense working with Chase is the reason for the decision to resign Jacob. I agree that Chase CLEARLY has loads of talent. And from what I hear he's an outstanding leader. But it is disappointing to know that we've whiffed so many times in a row at recruiting QBs (Brown, DBG, Navy).

Honestly I'm much more worried about rebuilding the O-line that seemed to struggle pass blocking against good teams last years. And I worry, frankly, that Cardwell is in over his head. I think that unit will be the difference between a 9 win season and a 12 win season. And ironically it will probably dictate most people's opinion on Chase Brice.

As the OP suggests, skill positions on this offense are at a level this conference has never seen.

I don't think Huesman coming back has as much to do with Brice's performance as it does with depth. Having Huesman has been a luxury for several years from a standpoint of a smart player who knows the whole playbook and can run it decently well when need be. If Brice gets hurt, we would be asking a player who has never taken a game time snap to run the offense. I don't know about Navy's abilities, and I would guess they aren't up to our expectations, and making true freshman Tabscott be the number 2 is going to limit him in the long run. He can't be expected to know and execute the whole playbook , so learning a small portion that he could to practice as number 2 is going to limit his growth. It is my understanding it was Huesmans option to come back all along, and his decision to come back when he did.
As far as oline goes, I think a lot of our hurries/sacks last year came from 3-4 string TE's whiffing on blocks as much as actual oline problems. I think we are 2-3 years away from being able to really evaluate Cardwell's coaching capabilities , but he has done some great recruiting on the Oline, bringing in Ramsey, Lindsay, Everett, etc some whom had legitimate P5 offers.

[Black Saturday]

How's our line looking

[Appstate88]

How's our line looking

Good question. Who starts at center? Hunter, Smith or Helms?

[ASU84]

How's our line looking

Good question. Who starts at center? Hunter, Smith or Helms?

Hunter

[WASU 93]

Are there extensive highlights of the horrific Duke games from last year showing (I’m sure) Chase either running for his life or throwing to guys who can’t get open? There is probably a correlation between passer stats and team records- low QB stats on bad teams. I doubt if you typically see a great QB on a bad team with big numbers and a high completion rate. For what it’s worth we probably won’t see a highly successful P5 QB transfer to App and leave a starting job with a winning team.

Looks like considerable depth at the skill positions. We probably have young guys that nobody really even knows about yet.

Agreed.

1. I trust our coaching staff. They would not have brought Chase into the program, if they did not see value in his playing abilities. He still has to execute, but so does every player on our team.
2. If you watch the You Tube videos on his play at Clemson and Duke, he gained chunk yardage and finished off runs on design QB run plays. He may not have ZT's breakaway speed, but he is a dual threat and not just a pocket passer.

[AppStateNews]

A couple things -- Ponce's system is extremely QB friendly. If they make the right reads, they will succeed in the system. They may not put up a lot of numbers, but they will.put up a lot of wins.

Having Huesman back is big. Not only because of competition, but because he spent several years in this system. He's going to see things Brice doesn't and explain it from a QB point of view.

I have been told by several that Huesman can step in and win a lot of games and win the conference. Brice's talent is next level and can take us to the next level IF (big IF) he gets the offense down. I trust Ponce to make sure Brice understands the offense before.putting it all on his shoulders.

Regarding Shuler and Tabscott. Shuler can make every throw in the book, but has struggled with the speed of the college game. Tabscott is the opposite. Mentally, he's ahead of Shuler but needs to work on the fundamentals to make all the throws. Both things are coachable.

Also, don't sleep on Andre Goodman. Likely to redshirt this year, but his work ethic is off the charts and his athleticism is high. Similar to Armanti in most schools were recruiting him as an athlete/DB -- we gave him the chance to compete at QB and he has.not disappointed so far.

[AppSt94]

A couple things -- Ponce's system is extremely QB friendly. If they make the right reads, they will succeed in the system. They may not put up a lot of numbers, but they will.put up a lot of wins.

Having Huesman back is big. Not only because of competition, but because he spent several years in this system. He's going to see things Brice doesn't and explain it from a QB point of view.

I have been told by several that Huesman can step in and win a lot of games and win the conference. Brice's talent is next level and can take us to the next level IF (big IF) he gets the offense down. I trust Ponce to make sure Brice understands the offense before.putting it all on his shoulders.

Regarding Shuler and Tabscott. Shuler can make every throw in the book, but has struggled with the speed of the college game. Tabscott is the opposite. Mentally, he's ahead of Shuler but needs to work on the fundamentals to make all the throws. Both things are coachable.

Also, don't sleep on Andre Goodman. Likely to redshirt this year, but his work ethic is off the charts and his athleticism is high. Similar to Armanti in most schools were recruiting him as an athlete/DB -- we gave him the chance to compete at QB and he has.not disappointed so far.

100% agree. I am of the same opinion with Goodman. I’m also intrigued with PWO Reid. Big kid that seemed to fall through the cracks.