Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 pm
I had this conversation this weekend. There is a generation or two that doesn’t see it that way. The 2000’s are not nearly as dedicated not even close.
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CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
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Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:27 pm
It is true that our winning football has been useful in attracting more students and a higher caliber of student that allows admissions to be more selective. That in turn might make the App State degree more attractive but that is likely to take decades to really move the needle to put a degree in more rarefied air than it is at present and has been the case for the last 15 years. It can happen, and I am glad we are moving in that direction, but I don't think we have moved THAT much, as much as I wish that were the case.spacemonkey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:08 pmI would argue their fees are more associated with marketing Appalachian State through sports. Hopefully making their degrees worth more but I get your point. Most make a decision based on total cost not costs if I didn't have to pay those fees.
I do think their student fees get a big bang for the cost. Thanks to the success of our football team.
I would also say this, in my three decades post-graduation from App I have had one person give me a "Wow, App State grad." I was proud and it made me glow I am sure, but the person that said that was another physics teacher from a few states to the west that was running a workshop I was attending. I was not able to leverage that comment into being hired. I never had a principal that hired me go on about my degree being from App State (which is obviously not English), though my degree was of interest as it was and is still rare enough. My degree would have been of interest regardless of the school I attended. (Though a few people hiring were also App grads as some point, which is not surprising.) And even then it did not have an effect my salary. Other fields may be different than education, but for me the power of athletics moving the needle on the value of the degree seems like a weak proposition to justify the fees.
Now football winning is a great and fun experience and the students attending seem to enjoy the hell out of it. That is worth something, certainly. My daughter has season tickets and has done so since her connections to get a guest ticket stopped. She is a young alumna so my point is obviously not universal but it certainly stands for some I am sure.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:37 am
Are you saying that they aren’t as engaged as it appears on television? It seems that of the 10k students that show up to games, having 1000 of them become YC members after graduation should be a reasonable expectation. How many SYC members become members? I just don’t see the needle moving enough to come close to meeting the benchmarks for increasing membership.mountaineerman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 pmI had this conversation this weekend. There is a generation or two that doesn’t see it that way. The 2000’s are not nearly as dedicated not even close.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:08 am
I dont know if this has ever been on here but would like to see the age breakdown of YC members.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:11 am
I would think that an interesting statistic would be the distance away every game attendees are from Boone. I've seen a few here mention that they drive a good bit to attend football games. So much is mentioned in terms of ticket, parking and concession prices. I tend to believe that those 3 items are more relevant to fans who are within a closer radius to Boone. If I can drive up and back the day of the game- no hotel, less gas, a couple fewer meals, etc. those first 3 items aren't as big of a deal unless the first 2 are deemed to be outrageous.
The overall demographics of our alumni base has been mentioned several times. At what distance point does it start to drop off in terms of overall attendance? I personally live 3.5 hours from Boone and for a mid afternoon game typically drive up and back the same day. I've gotten a hotel for a Thursday night game and have stayed with a relative several times who owns a place in the mountains but generally I don't fork out the hotel money.
All this being said as long as we have the near perfect situation in terms of game day- good opponent, mid afternoon start time and decent weather we seem to pack the Rock.
The overall demographics of our alumni base has been mentioned several times. At what distance point does it start to drop off in terms of overall attendance? I personally live 3.5 hours from Boone and for a mid afternoon game typically drive up and back the same day. I've gotten a hotel for a Thursday night game and have stayed with a relative several times who owns a place in the mountains but generally I don't fork out the hotel money.
All this being said as long as we have the near perfect situation in terms of game day- good opponent, mid afternoon start time and decent weather we seem to pack the Rock.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:18 am
Yes . And I’m still absolutely amazed at how many alumni I know personally that don’t have anything to do with the school or sports.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:37 amAre you saying that they aren’t as engaged as it appears on television? It seems that of the 10k students that show up to games, having 1000 of them become YC members after graduation should be a reasonable expectation. How many SYC members become members? I just don’t see the needle moving enough to come close to meeting the benchmarks for increasing membership.mountaineerman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 pmI had this conversation this weekend. There is a generation or two that doesn’t see it that way. The 2000’s are not nearly as dedicated not even close.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:34 am
To your first point, this is another reason App needs to start a doctorate program in one of the two or three fields that make a lot of money…law, medicine, dentistry, etc. Schools with those degree programs have alums who become big donors. That’s a long play and even starting these programs tomorrow wouldn’t really pay significant dividends for 15-20 years.McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:27 pmIt is true that our winning football has been useful in attracting more students and a higher caliber of student that allows admissions to be more selective. That in turn might make the App State degree more attractive but that is likely to take decades to really move the needle to put a degree in more rarefied air than it is at present and has been the case for the last 15 years. It can happen, and I am glad we are moving in that direction, but I don't think we have moved THAT much, as much as I wish that were the case.spacemonkey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:08 pmI would argue their fees are more associated with marketing Appalachian State through sports. Hopefully making their degrees worth more but I get your point. Most make a decision based on total cost not costs if I didn't have to pay those fees.
I do think their student fees get a big bang for the cost. Thanks to the success of our football team.
I would also say this, in my three decades post-graduation from App I have had one person give me a "Wow, App State grad." I was proud and it made me glow I am sure, but the person that said that was another physics teacher from a few states to the west that was running a workshop I was attending. I was not able to leverage that comment into being hired. I never had a principal that hired me go on about my degree being from App State (which is obviously not English), though my degree was of interest as it was and is still rare enough. My degree would have been of interest regardless of the school I attended. (Though a few people hiring were also App grads as some point, which is not surprising.) And even then it did not have an effect my salary. Other fields may be different than education, but for me the power of athletics moving the needle on the value of the degree seems like a weak proposition to justify the fees.
Now football winning is a great and fun experience and the students attending seem to enjoy the hell out of it. That is worth something, certainly. My daughter has season tickets and has done so since her connections to get a guest ticket stopped. She is a young alumna so my point is obviously not universal but it certainly stands for some I am sure.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:45 am
I don't know, man, you just took 200 words to say what he said in one; I'm not sure I'd say your way was "better."McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:25 pmI think a better way to say it is "prepaid through student fees." It certainly is not costing students money at the gate, but they are paying actually a pretty good ticket price if one considers the fees they pay and the number of paid events available (and I am sure no student is going to every football, men's and women's basketball and baseball game and wrestling match). A handful might be getting close to that but not many, and I would wonder about their grades and what their major is as well if they have that much free time. That might actually make a good graduate school research area for a Masters of Doctoral degree.
If one considers many might be taking out loans and the years it might take to pay those loans off they are paying for tickets for years after graduation. And with the interest on the loans along with the principal and they are likely paying enough to purchase current year season tickets in a few sports. Their parents might be as well.
This is getting deep in the weeds in a manner but it is part of all the economics of young alumni, their parents, having disposable income or not and where that disposable income is going.
I take your point, but for purposes of this discussion (what motivates people to attend or not), "free" is accurate.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:52 am
[quote=APPdiesel post_id=310034 time=1655127280 us
To your first point, this is another reason App needs to start a doctorate program in one of the two or three fields that make a lot of money…law, medicine, dentistry, etc. Schools with those degree programs have alums who become big donors. That’s a long play and even starting these programs tomorrow wouldn’t really pay significant dividends for 15-20 years.
[/quote]
Which is why TPTB will fight us on these programs. TPTB know App does a damn good job with what they are given for funds. We might just show some other campuses up. Of course we all know that on this board.
To your first point, this is another reason App needs to start a doctorate program in one of the two or three fields that make a lot of money…law, medicine, dentistry, etc. Schools with those degree programs have alums who become big donors. That’s a long play and even starting these programs tomorrow wouldn’t really pay significant dividends for 15-20 years.
[/quote]
Which is why TPTB will fight us on these programs. TPTB know App does a damn good job with what they are given for funds. We might just show some other campuses up. Of course we all know that on this board.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:02 am
I think the explanations are noted on this thread.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:37 amAre you saying that they aren’t as engaged as it appears on television? It seems that of the 10k students that show up to games, having 1000 of them become YC members after graduation should be a reasonable expectation. How many SYC members become members? I just don’t see the needle moving enough to come close to meeting the benchmarks for increasing membership.mountaineerman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 pmI had this conversation this weekend. There is a generation or two that doesn’t see it that way. The 2000’s are not nearly as dedicated not even close.
- Any time any good or service goes from free to costing *anything*, you're going to see a big dropoff in consumers.
- Most grads don't stay local.
- You don't need a YC membership to attend most games.
- Money is tight for most young professionals.
- App doesn't churn out a ton of degrees in high-income fields.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:24 am
I can agree with all of this. A 10% increase over a 4 year cycle isn’t a huge stretch. We can’t grow our membership by 250 a year?EastHallApp wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:02 amI think the explanations are noted on this thread.AppSt94 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:37 amAre you saying that they aren’t as engaged as it appears on television? It seems that of the 10k students that show up to games, having 1000 of them become YC members after graduation should be a reasonable expectation. How many SYC members become members? I just don’t see the needle moving enough to come close to meeting the benchmarks for increasing membership.mountaineerman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:33 pmI had this conversation this weekend. There is a generation or two that doesn’t see it that way. The 2000’s are not nearly as dedicated not even close.
- Any time any good or service goes from free to costing *anything*, you're going to see a big dropoff in consumers.
- Most grads don't stay local.
- You don't need a YC membership to attend most games.
- Money is tight for most young professionals.
- App doesn't churn out a ton of degrees in high-income fields.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:31 am
I agree. It seems that often times it doesn’t matter what school is listed on the degree unless you work in one of the aforementioned fields. I work in education and in my district folks are promoted to more desirable positions based on who they kiss up to and other factors that will be too political for this discussion. The degree and the school listed don’t matter at all. In fact, some of the “higher ups” have had doctorates from online schools and other seemingly marginal institutions and often appear to be the most incompetent folks around. But, they fit the mold and the optics that are conveyed to the community.APPdiesel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:34 amTo your first point, this is another reason App needs to start a doctorate program in one of the two or three fields that make a lot of money…law, medicine, dentistry, etc. Schools with those degree programs have alums who become big donors. That’s a long play and even starting these programs tomorrow wouldn’t really pay significant dividends for 15-20 years.McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:27 pmIt is true that our winning football has been useful in attracting more students and a higher caliber of student that allows admissions to be more selective. That in turn might make the App State degree more attractive but that is likely to take decades to really move the needle to put a degree in more rarefied air than it is at present and has been the case for the last 15 years. It can happen, and I am glad we are moving in that direction, but I don't think we have moved THAT much, as much as I wish that were the case.spacemonkey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:08 pmI would argue their fees are more associated with marketing Appalachian State through sports. Hopefully making their degrees worth more but I get your point. Most make a decision based on total cost not costs if I didn't have to pay those fees.
I do think their student fees get a big bang for the cost. Thanks to the success of our football team.
I would also say this, in my three decades post-graduation from App I have had one person give me a "Wow, App State grad." I was proud and it made me glow I am sure, but the person that said that was another physics teacher from a few states to the west that was running a workshop I was attending. I was not able to leverage that comment into being hired. I never had a principal that hired me go on about my degree being from App State (which is obviously not English), though my degree was of interest as it was and is still rare enough. My degree would have been of interest regardless of the school I attended. (Though a few people hiring were also App grads as some point, which is not surprising.) And even then it did not have an effect my salary. Other fields may be different than education, but for me the power of athletics moving the needle on the value of the degree seems like a weak proposition to justify the fees.
Now football winning is a great and fun experience and the students attending seem to enjoy the hell out of it. That is worth something, certainly. My daughter has season tickets and has done so since her connections to get a guest ticket stopped. She is a young alumna so my point is obviously not universal but it certainly stands for some I am sure.
As far as the higher paying fields of medicine, law, dentistry, etc, do we have strong undergrad programs that feed those grad programs? It seems like due to location and lack of major medical facilities, etc. we would have to specialize in rural medicine or something, much like the nursing program. Maybe some sort of specialized law school would be viable at some point. If Campbell and Elon can do it surely we can, although the UNC heavyweights who control the UNC system would likely vehemently oppose another state school competing with them for law school. I know NCCU has one, but do they really compete with UNC?
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:32 am
Do any schools in NC have a dentistry program?
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:37 am
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:08 am
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:07 pm
A dental school would be the best option, especially considering the need in the western North Carolina mountains. I said this on another thread some months ago, but we could get some Mt Dew money to help fund the program and offer rural dentist to help combat "Mt Dew Mouth" in the greater Appalachian area. I really think a dental school is an easier first get than Law or Medical and the success would help open the door for the other two.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:34 pm
t4pizza wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:07 pmA dental school would be the best option, especially considering the need in the western North Carolina mountains. I said this on another thread some months ago, but we could get some Mt Dew money to help fund the program and offer rural dentist to help combat "Mt Dew Mouth" in the greater Appalachian area. I really think a dental school is an easier first get than Law or Medical and the success would help open the door for the other two.
Most sources say UNC-C will get the next medical school.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:26 pm
Hillbillies and flatlanders do share one thing in common:t4pizza wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:07 pmA dental school would be the best option, especially considering the need in the western North Carolina mountains. I said this on another thread some months ago, but we could get some Mt Dew money to help fund the program and offer rural dentist to help combat "Mt Dew Mouth" in the greater Appalachian area. I really think a dental school is an easier first get than Law or Medical and the success would help open the door for the other two.
plenty of peeps sporting serious punkin teef.
And ECU got a dental school, so why not App?
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:50 pm
I once read the reason that the medical school went to ECU instead of UNCC was because the State of Mecklenburg thinks they should get everything. So in other words they gave the medical school to ECU out of spite.
Re: CFB attendance falls for 8th straight year
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:11 pm
App has a nursing program and an online Vet Tech Program App Vet Tech Program which is like taking on NC State, ECU and UNCC all at once, and changing them into something only Appalachian would believe it can do.
Michigan was not beat by Appalachian by accident or a fluke; Appalachian believed it would beat Michigan and it did...
Michigan was not beat by Appalachian by accident or a fluke; Appalachian believed it would beat Michigan and it did...