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Early, but let's do it now

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppSt94 » Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:35 pm

To put it quite simply. Moore set Satterfield up for success by creating the culture. Satterfield set up Drinkwitz to win games to get a better job. Drinkwitz did not pay it forward.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:53 pm

We will be a 7 to 8 win team this season. While the staff expects a good year they also understand this year is the last round of the rebuild. They are gearing up for 2024 to be the return of true App State football.

That said, there is enough unproven talent on the roster to make some noise. It's just a matter if that unproven talent makes the required jump sooner than most do.

Good news -- d line went from a liability to a strength. Skill player depth is still near the top in all of G5.

Bad news -- we now have depth on the o line, but still uncertain of how much quality depth. This is really where the unproven talent needs to step up. If they do, it could be another magical season. If they don't, it could be another subpar season (for App State standards) but the foundation of becoming a powerhouse again will be built.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by mike87 » Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:07 pm

Yosef10 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:13 pm
mike87 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:30 pm
Yosef10 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:12 pm
mike87 wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:43 am
So how many games in before we start hearing from the "fire the coach" crowd again? IMO, he won the offseason again which quieted things down for now. But I'm already sniffing it in this thread.
I’m with you that there’s a crowd that exists in college athletics where the hyperbole about firing the coach goes too far too soon. But Clark, and this program, has regressed in all 3 seasons now. At what point do you start to look at the CEO of the organization?
What's regressed? Revenue, coaching staff, recruiting, portal management, graduation rate, facilities, Strength & Conditioning, off-field issues all are in the plus. Firing a coach blows up the process. Those that think because the W's aren't there it's best to blow up the program because then, then we will get the W's, they must have government jobs.
What’s regressed? App just went 4-6 against FBS competition. Including getting blown out by Texas State. If that was the case in 2023, sure OK that’s understandable. But the 2022 team should not have went 4-6 against FBS schools. No one’s talking about blowing up the program, we can stop with the extremes. We try to have level headed conversations and y’all resort to the extremes.
Firing a head coach is akin to firing a CEO. That's blowing up a program. Ignoring the Chapel Hill and A&M game and resulting injuries is an extreme take.

I guess I was wrong though. Going down this rabbit hole before game 1.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:22 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:14 pm
Unbeatable? we lost to Georgia Southern.

2019 was a good year, but it does not compare to this past year. I bet we had more notoriety this past year than we did in 2019. This past year is a set up for even greater success in the future. Just like '04 and '93. Everyone talks about portal losses, but App has some great portal gains.
Let's be real about "more notoriety": We got more credit than we should have for beating a sub-.500 team because they were wildly overrated before the season. That got us GameDay, which led to a bit more "notoriety" because we needed a Hail Mary to win a game in which we were two-TD favorites. The rest of the season was an unmitigated disaster, though I suppose maybe that earned us additional "notoriety," especially when we blew a 28-3 lead at home to an FCS transitional team.

If that's "more notoriety" than going 13-1, beating UNC and South Carolina, and being ranked in every weekly CFP poll, then give me less notoriety every year.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by ASUFan4863 » Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:24 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:22 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:14 pm
Unbeatable? we lost to Georgia Southern.

2019 was a good year, but it does not compare to this past year. I bet we had more notoriety this past year than we did in 2019. This past year is a set up for even greater success in the future. Just like '04 and '93. Everyone talks about portal losses, but App has some great portal gains.
Let's be real about "more notoriety": We got more credit than we should have for beating a sub-.500 team because they were wildly overrated before the season. That got us GameDay, which led to a bit more "notoriety" because we needed a Hail Mary to win a game in which we were two-TD favorites. The rest of the season was an unmitigated disaster, though I suppose maybe that earned us additional "notoriety," especially when we blew a 28-3 lead at home to an FCS transitional team.

If that's "more notoriety" than going 13-1, beating UNC and South Carolina, and being ranked in every weekly CFP poll, then give me less notoriety every year.
I believe you may be stuck in the 2018 and 2019 SBC. Discrediting our opponents is disingenuous. Let’s break it down:
1. We beat Troy on a Hail Mary. The same Troy that went 12-2, won the SBC, demolished CCU in the title game (albeit with a HC with one foot out), and beat a ranked UTSA in the Cure Bowl. That win was literally our best win. To discredit that because of Vegas odds do not tell the full story.

2. I fully believe losing to JMU derailed the entire season. However, let’s not discredit our opponent again. JMU went 8-3, finished with the best record in the East, demolishes CCU by 40 points, demolished MTSU (who beat Miami) by 37 points and won 6 of their 8 games by 3+ TDs.

3. We lost by 1 score or less in 5 games. To teams that beat : Notre Dame, Nebraska, Duke. 3 of those teams had 9 wins.

4. I’m not trying to defend our season but this is not the same conference we dominated a few years ago. We sucked ass 1 game. We lost 5 winnable games. We were SO CLOSE that a couple of plays changed everything. That’s not an excuse, that’s football!

5. Being a G5, it is all about exposure and finances. It helps fundraising, transfer, academics, you name it. 2019 was great on the field, but last year was definitely better financially.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pm

JMU was a scheduling loss. They weren’t a great team, but they were well rested.

Rehashing the 2022 season as anything other than below average is intellectually dishonest.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:20 pm

ASUFan4863 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:24 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:22 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:14 pm
Unbeatable? we lost to Georgia Southern.

2019 was a good year, but it does not compare to this past year. I bet we had more notoriety this past year than we did in 2019. This past year is a set up for even greater success in the future. Just like '04 and '93. Everyone talks about portal losses, but App has some great portal gains.
Let's be real about "more notoriety": We got more credit than we should have for beating a sub-.500 team because they were wildly overrated before the season. That got us GameDay, which led to a bit more "notoriety" because we needed a Hail Mary to win a game in which we were two-TD favorites. The rest of the season was an unmitigated disaster, though I suppose maybe that earned us additional "notoriety," especially when we blew a 28-3 lead at home to an FCS transitional team.

If that's "more notoriety" than going 13-1, beating UNC and South Carolina, and being ranked in every weekly CFP poll, then give me less notoriety every year.
I believe you may be stuck in the 2018 and 2019 SBC. Discrediting our opponents is disingenuous. Let’s break it down:
1. We beat Troy on a Hail Mary. The same Troy that went 12-2, won the SBC, demolished CCU in the title game (albeit with a HC with one foot out), and beat a ranked UTSA in the Cure Bowl. That win was literally our best win. To discredit that because of Vegas odds do not tell the full story.

2. I fully believe losing to JMU derailed the entire season. However, let’s not discredit our opponent again. JMU went 8-3, finished with the best record in the East, demolishes CCU by 40 points, demolished MTSU (who beat Miami) by 37 points and won 6 of their 8 games by 3+ TDs.

3. We lost by 1 score or less in 5 games. To teams that beat : Notre Dame, Nebraska, Duke. 3 of those teams had 9 wins.

4. I’m not trying to defend our season but this is not the same conference we dominated a few years ago. We sucked ass 1 game. We lost 5 winnable games. We were SO CLOSE that a couple of plays changed everything. That’s not an excuse, that’s football!

5. Being a G5, it is all about exposure and finances. It helps fundraising, transfer, academics, you name it. 2019 was great on the field, but last year was definitely better financially.
You're either a team that wins or a team that rationalizes why it loses. I preferred when App was the former.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:26 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pm
JMU was a scheduling loss. They weren’t a great team, but they were well rested.

Rehashing the 2022 season as anything other than below average is intellectually dishonest.
The more concerning thing to me is how many people write some variation of "This isn't the same Sun Belt that we dominated in the past" as a justification for last season.

OK... so now what? "Hey guys, we had a good run, but Marshall and JMU are here now; we've just gotta hope we can sneak into a bowl every couple years from here on out."

All those teams that have made the league so tough? We were better than every single one of them from at least 2015-2019.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:55 am

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:26 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pm
JMU was a scheduling loss. They weren’t a great team, but they were well rested.

Rehashing the 2022 season as anything other than below average is intellectually dishonest.
The more concerning thing to me is how many people write some variation of "This isn't the same Sun Belt that we dominated in the past" as a justification for last season.

OK... so now what? "Hey guys, we had a good run, but Marshall and JMU are here now; we've just gotta hope we can sneak into a bowl every couple years from here on out."

All those teams that have made the league so tough? We were better than every single one of them from at least 2015-2019.
No. But if you expect your team to improve year over year and maintain the talent gap advantage and don’t expect the same ability to improve from your opponent then you are being, to use the term above, intellectually dishonest.

Tiger Woods came on the PGA tour and dominated immediately. He was that much better than everyone else. But as time went on, the pool of talented players competing against him got better and slowed his dominance. Did that happen because he got worse, or that everyone got better?

It’s not a throw your hands up and accept a new norm, rather it’s an acknowledgment that the world around you got harder. Yes, that means you either work harder or you fall back or sometimes both simultaneously. I know that this is an unpopular take around here, but winning takes more than X’s & O’s and Jimmys and Joes. It takes dinero as well. Some schools are willing to shell out big bucks to win short term. Others do the best they can with what they’ve got. Everyone loves the phrase “rising tides raise all ships” when speaking of the conference. But rising tides also level the playing field.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:57 am

Tiger Woods got distracted and definitely got worse.

I thought the excuse train would wait until the fall to pull into the station, but the platform building is ahead of schedule this season. Has the rest of us concerned given the inside knowledge.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:10 am

“Excuse Train” and “Loser Mentality” are seemingly the catchphrases for those that seem to only acknowledge what’s in plain view as the entirety.

“Be curious, not judgemental.” Walt Whitman

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am

94 - there are those people who thrive in negativism - we all know them in our own lives - if there isn't something to bitch and complain about then they find or create something - Many, many years ago on this board I was "honored" with the title of "President of the Lollypop Guild" - I am still gladly welcome the moniker. The one thing I do know is there are some on here who bitch and complain the most who could never be successful as a coach - BECAUSE, a team reads a coach like a book and once they pick up on that negative attitude a coach's chances to win nosedive substantially
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am

Can you imagine working with/for some of these people?

CEO: "Ok guys, we know going in to this quarter, there's a solid chance we will break even. We have some projects going on that are going to better us for the long term and need to be done now."

Entry level manager: "Loser mentality! Stop with the excuses! Just make more money!!!! It's that simple!!! Don't worry about the outside noise or building to make us a long term success! Let's do everything we can to get that extra money this quarter!!! Who cares if it might bankrupt us when competitors are also trying to better their bottom line!!!"
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by appst89 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:50 am

AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am
Can you imagine working with/for some of these people?

CEO: "Ok guys, we know going in to this quarter, there's a solid chance we will break even. We have some projects going on that are going to better us for the long term and need to be done now."

Entry level manager: "Loser mentality! Stop with the excuses! Just make more money!!!! It's that simple!!! Don't worry about the outside noise or building to make us a long term success! Let's do everything we can to get that extra money this quarter!!! Who cares if it might bankrupt us when competitors are also trying to better their bottom line!!!"
That's not an honest conversation from the CEO if he neglects to mention the fact that we have lost money three consecutive years.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:54 am

Judgemental is an interesting choice of words considering your stance with posters whose thoughts differ from your own.

What's in plain view to most of the posters here is the disappointing 2022 season. We view this as the exception and not the rule.

We've had more good news than bad on the transfer front and look forward to getting back to our (and the team and university's) on the field expectations.

We are a better program than everyone in the SBC and I'm not ashamed to hold us to that standard.

It's June, a time for excitement, not setting the stage for disappointment.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:54 am

appst89 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:50 am
AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am
Can you imagine working with/for some of these people?

CEO: "Ok guys, we know going in to this quarter, there's a solid chance we will break even. We have some projects going on that are going to better us for the long term and need to be done now."

Entry level manager: "Loser mentality! Stop with the excuses! Just make more money!!!! It's that simple!!! Don't worry about the outside noise or building to make us a long term success! Let's do everything we can to get that extra money this quarter!!! Who cares if it might bankrupt us when competitors are also trying to better their bottom line!!!"
That's not an honest conversation from the CEO if he neglects to mention the fact that we have lost money three consecutive years.
It was an example.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:58 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am
94 - there are those people who thrive in negativism - we all know them in our own lives - if there isn't something to bitch and complain about then they find or create something - Many, many years ago on this board I was "honored" with the title of "President of the Lollypop Guild" - I am still gladly welcome the moniker. The one thing I do know is there are some on here who bitch and complain the most who could never be successful as a coach - BECAUSE, a team reads a coach like a book and once they pick up on that negative attitude a coach's chances to win nosedive substantially
Accepting and expecting mediocre seasons is now a positive statement. This is classic stuff.

More judgmental comments too, never stop being you!

I'd love for you to see me coach kids and talk to their parents you'd clearly be surprised.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:00 am

AppStateNews wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:46 am
Can you imagine working with/for some of these people?

CEO: "Ok guys, we know going in to this quarter, there's a solid chance we will break even. We have some projects going on that are going to better us for the long term and need to be done now."

Entry level manager: "Loser mentality! Stop with the excuses! Just make more money!!!! It's that simple!!! Don't worry about the outside noise or building to make us a long term success! Let's do everything we can to get that extra money this quarter!!! Who cares if it might bankrupt us when competitors are also trying to better their bottom line!!!"
Extrapolation into the work ethic and mentality of "these people" from a couple of posts on a message board? Judgmental is now the word of the day!

Imagine the level of success "these people" have had holding themselves and the team around them accountable throughout their careers. Again you'd be surprised.

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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by AppStateNews » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:03 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:54 am
Judgemental is an interesting choice of words considering your stance with posters whose thoughts differ from your own.

What's in plain view to most of the posters here is the disappointing 2022 season. We view this as the exception and not the rule.

We've had more good news than bad on the transfer front and look forward to getting back to our (and the team and university's) on the field expectations.

We are a better program than everyone in the SBC and I'm not ashamed to hold us to that standard.

It's June, a time for excitement, not setting the stage for disappointment.
We're all expecting high on field expectations. The difference is some understand to get back to that point requires some work and undoing of damage done. It's not going to happen over night without unlimited funds.

Others don't want to accept that. It's really that simple.
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Re: Early, but let's do it now

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:06 am

Success takes hard work and maintaining success is even harder. This isn't news to anyone.

We have declined since Clark took over, it's really that simple.

I can support Clark, and want him to succeed as much as you do yet still acknowledge the decline and speak constructively about it.

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