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Let's talk about Clark

WASU 93
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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by WASU 93 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:38 am

AppStateMtneer wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:28 am
Agreed. It’s his players and it’s his surrounding staff. The coaches may not be the ones on the field making the mental mistakes, lining up incorrectly, hitting the wrong gap, missing the tackle, fumbling the ball… But they were the ones that were responsible for that player being on the roster in the first place. Clark chose these coaches. These coaches recruited those players. Those were Clark’s decisions. This is Clark’s team.

We wanted a coach that would provide stability to our program. After the revolving door with the coaching staff, we wanted him to provide stability for our players. I’m not sure if Clark was a lazy higher by our AD. At the time, I thought it was a good hire and the choice we needed. Clark definitely has the passion and I know he wants things to succeed but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to do it. If App State continues having a revolving door of coaches that are just using us as that steppingstone in order to move onto the next level and make more money for themselves then so be it… that would mean that we are winning.

We have become way too predictable. It was evident that Clark was coaching for his job last night. We benefited on risky fourth down calls that panned out in the first half. Two of those fourth downs should have resulted in field-goal attempts and a higher percentage of guaranteed points. The gambles paid off and kept us in the game, but just because it worked doesn’t make it the right decision.
If a coach on the opposing team would take the 5 yard dump pass to the outside each play, they would score on every drive. I have no explanation on why we line our defensive backs 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage consistently… are they just that bad? And again, if that is the case, that is the coaches fault.

The NIL and transfer portal have changed, and in my opinion, ruined college football. That being said, it provides the opportunity for a team with a new coaching staff, to more quickly choose the players that fit their scheme and fill a roster with who they want on the field. It should not take a new coach and his staff multiple years to have “their” players like it did in the past.
I don’t disagree with what you say. The transfer portal does allow a team to quickly fill gaps. But, the NIL is not in Clark’s favor, nor will it be in any coaches favor that coaches in Boone.

And, what is different in today’s environment Vs. Satt’s is that you have to keep recruiting your players every season and you have to keep recruiting your recruits up to signing day and beyond.

In my opinion, we play too many wide receivers. Horn and Robinson should be in on 80% of our offensive snaps (in two receiver or more sets). But, we may rotate six guys in because (possibly) we have to keep them all “happy” to keep them from bolting.

Prior to the NIL, we were in a great place as a program because we could develop players over 4-5 years and they were generally going to stick with the program. We potentially don’t have that luxury any more.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:50 am

We are definitely on the wrong end of NIL. Unless there are App related businesses who want to shell out money for decent football players we will probably lose our better ones who can go be role players at P5's for pocket change there. We might get lucky in the portal but by and large we are grabbing dudes who didn't pan out with their former school. This new world stinks.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by ASUTodd » Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:02 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:50 am
We are definitely on the wrong end of NIL. Unless there are App related businesses who want to shell out money for decent football players we will probably lose our better ones who can go be role players at P5's for pocket change there. We might get lucky in the portal but by and large we are grabbing dudes who didn't pan out with their former school. This new world stinks.
I look at it as the same walk-ons we used to get and mold into great players. We may not get the best but we make them the best. Well, we used to.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by Yosef10 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:26 am

WASU 93 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:38 am
AppStateMtneer wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:28 am
Agreed. It’s his players and it’s his surrounding staff. The coaches may not be the ones on the field making the mental mistakes, lining up incorrectly, hitting the wrong gap, missing the tackle, fumbling the ball… But they were the ones that were responsible for that player being on the roster in the first place. Clark chose these coaches. These coaches recruited those players. Those were Clark’s decisions. This is Clark’s team.

We wanted a coach that would provide stability to our program. After the revolving door with the coaching staff, we wanted him to provide stability for our players. I’m not sure if Clark was a lazy higher by our AD. At the time, I thought it was a good hire and the choice we needed. Clark definitely has the passion and I know he wants things to succeed but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to do it. If App State continues having a revolving door of coaches that are just using us as that steppingstone in order to move onto the next level and make more money for themselves then so be it… that would mean that we are winning.

We have become way too predictable. It was evident that Clark was coaching for his job last night. We benefited on risky fourth down calls that panned out in the first half. Two of those fourth downs should have resulted in field-goal attempts and a higher percentage of guaranteed points. The gambles paid off and kept us in the game, but just because it worked doesn’t make it the right decision.
If a coach on the opposing team would take the 5 yard dump pass to the outside each play, they would score on every drive. I have no explanation on why we line our defensive backs 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage consistently… are they just that bad? And again, if that is the case, that is the coaches fault.

The NIL and transfer portal have changed, and in my opinion, ruined college football. That being said, it provides the opportunity for a team with a new coaching staff, to more quickly choose the players that fit their scheme and fill a roster with who they want on the field. It should not take a new coach and his staff multiple years to have “their” players like it did in the past.
I don’t disagree with what you say. The transfer portal does allow a team to quickly fill gaps. But, the NIL is not in Clark’s favor, nor will it be in any coaches favor that coaches in Boone.

And, what is different in today’s environment Vs. Satt’s is that you have to keep recruiting your players every season and you have to keep recruiting your recruits up to signing day and beyond.

In my opinion, we play too many wide receivers. Horn and Robinson should be in on 80% of our offensive snaps (in two receiver or more sets). But, we may rotate six guys in because (possibly) we have to keep them all “happy” to keep them from bolting.

Prior to the NIL, we were in a great place as a program because we could develop players over 4-5 years and they were generally going to stick with the program. We potentially don’t have that luxury any more.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but no SBC school is in a good spot when it comes to NIL, it’s a pretty level playing field.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by Yosef10 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:26 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:50 am
We are definitely on the wrong end of NIL. Unless there are App related businesses who want to shell out money for decent football players we will probably lose our better ones who can go be role players at P5's for pocket change there. We might get lucky in the portal but by and large we are grabbing dudes who didn't pan out with their former school. This new world stinks.
What is the rest of the SBC East doing?

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by AppinVA » Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:28 am

Yosef10 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:26 am
WASU 93 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:38 am
AppStateMtneer wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:28 am
Agreed. It’s his players and it’s his surrounding staff. The coaches may not be the ones on the field making the mental mistakes, lining up incorrectly, hitting the wrong gap, missing the tackle, fumbling the ball… But they were the ones that were responsible for that player being on the roster in the first place. Clark chose these coaches. These coaches recruited those players. Those were Clark’s decisions. This is Clark’s team.

We wanted a coach that would provide stability to our program. After the revolving door with the coaching staff, we wanted him to provide stability for our players. I’m not sure if Clark was a lazy higher by our AD. At the time, I thought it was a good hire and the choice we needed. Clark definitely has the passion and I know he wants things to succeed but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to do it. If App State continues having a revolving door of coaches that are just using us as that steppingstone in order to move onto the next level and make more money for themselves then so be it… that would mean that we are winning.

We have become way too predictable. It was evident that Clark was coaching for his job last night. We benefited on risky fourth down calls that panned out in the first half. Two of those fourth downs should have resulted in field-goal attempts and a higher percentage of guaranteed points. The gambles paid off and kept us in the game, but just because it worked doesn’t make it the right decision.
If a coach on the opposing team would take the 5 yard dump pass to the outside each play, they would score on every drive. I have no explanation on why we line our defensive backs 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage consistently… are they just that bad? And again, if that is the case, that is the coaches fault.

The NIL and transfer portal have changed, and in my opinion, ruined college football. That being said, it provides the opportunity for a team with a new coaching staff, to more quickly choose the players that fit their scheme and fill a roster with who they want on the field. It should not take a new coach and his staff multiple years to have “their” players like it did in the past.
I don’t disagree with what you say. The transfer portal does allow a team to quickly fill gaps. But, the NIL is not in Clark’s favor, nor will it be in any coaches favor that coaches in Boone.

And, what is different in today’s environment Vs. Satt’s is that you have to keep recruiting your players every season and you have to keep recruiting your recruits up to signing day and beyond.

In my opinion, we play too many wide receivers. Horn and Robinson should be in on 80% of our offensive snaps (in two receiver or more sets). But, we may rotate six guys in because (possibly) we have to keep them all “happy” to keep them from bolting.

Prior to the NIL, we were in a great place as a program because we could develop players over 4-5 years and they were generally going to stick with the program. We potentially don’t have that luxury any more.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but no SBC school is in a good spot when it comes to NIL, it’s a pretty level playing field.
No, no. It’s a unique problem to us. Just like Covid.
"Some people call me hillbilly. Some people call me mountain man. You can call me Appalachian. Appalachian's what I am."-- Del McCoury Band

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:58 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:10 am
Big daddy give it up, you asked a silly question, it’s been answered. Now you’d like to discuss semantics of your silly question. Take the L and move on, all your goals are still in front of you.
Actually, he's just calling into question the validity of some of the examples. But you'd rather just give a snarky answer.

I would agree one should not ask a question like that without already knowing the answer. I guess I'm just disappointed that we have devolved to this point that we can't be civil with fellow App fans. I think there are certainly strong, compelling arguments that a change may need to take place at season's end. I also think that a case can be made that would be hasty and counterproductive with such a young team. I realize we are all passionate about App State football and regardless of where one falls on this issue, we all are thinking of the best interests of the team's future.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by yosef69 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:20 pm

hapapp wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:58 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:10 am
Big daddy give it up, you asked a silly question, it’s been answered. Now you’d like to discuss semantics of your silly question. Take the L and move on, all your goals are still in front of you.
Actually, he's just calling into question the validity of some of the examples. But you'd rather just give a snarky answer.

I would agree one should not ask a question like that without already knowing the answer. I guess I'm just disappointed that we have devolved to this point that we can't be civil with fellow App fans. I think there are certainly strong, compelling arguments that a change may need to take place at season's end. I also think that a case can be made that would be hasty and counterproductive with such a young team. I realize we are all passionate about App State football and regardless of where one falls on this issue, we all are thinking of the best interests of the team's future.
It’s what happens when some are more loyal to the coach than the program.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by hapapp » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:26 pm

yosef69 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:20 pm
hapapp wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:58 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:10 am
Big daddy give it up, you asked a silly question, it’s been answered. Now you’d like to discuss semantics of your silly question. Take the L and move on, all your goals are still in front of you.
Actually, he's just calling into question the validity of some of the examples. But you'd rather just give a snarky answer.

I would agree one should not ask a question like that without already knowing the answer. I guess I'm just disappointed that we have devolved to this point that we can't be civil with fellow App fans. I think there are certainly strong, compelling arguments that a change may need to take place at season's end. I also think that a case can be made that would be hasty and counterproductive with such a young team. I realize we are all passionate about App State football and regardless of where one falls on this issue, we all are thinking of the best interests of the team's future.
It’s what happens when some are more loyal to the coach than the program.
I'm sure there are some here who might be personal friends with SC but that's too limited a view. It's easy to say that that's the only reason they are all in on firing him. One could easily say those who want him fired do so because they somehow live vicariously through the success of the football team. That likewise would too broad a swipe. People can come to different conclusions on this without it being about friendship or their ego.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by pop5app » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm

I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by yosef69 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:39 pm

pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm
I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.
Absolutely can not do this in the transfer portal era. A lame duck would destroy this program for years to come

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by RaleighApp27609 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:42 pm

yosef69 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:39 pm
pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm
I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.
Absolutely can not do this in the transfer portal era. A lame duck would destroy this program for years to come
Agreed. No reason not to start repairing the damage ASAP

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by pop5app » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:49 pm

yosef69 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:39 pm
pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm
I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.
Absolutely can not do this in the transfer portal era. A lame duck would destroy this program for years to come

You may be correct but next year was suppose to be THE year. Transfer portal can wok both ways too.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by /\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:52 pm

pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm
I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.
Wouldn't honoring his contract mean keeping him through the 2026 season?
Twitter: @brosef_yosef

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by 311neers » Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:06 pm

pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:49 pm
yosef69 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:39 pm
pop5app wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:36 pm
I guess I’ve decide the let SC finish his contract. I’m really disappointed about the SC years. However, I felt it was a great hire…IF… he could coach and recruit. Well, if he can’t coach and he’s having to learn then we are 4 years in to that learning curve and I’m for finishing his contrat - damage is done. If it is talent, well, that damage is done too. We save 1 million not having to buy out and we will have given one our own a “fair shake” by honoring his contract. Just my two cents.
Absolutely can not do this in the transfer portal era. A lame duck would destroy this program for years to come

You may be correct but next year was suppose to be THE year. Transfer portal can wok both ways too.
I believe that was just a CYA by a couple of accounts on here and friends close to Clark. I’ve seen nothing out of Clark that leads me to believe he can turn it around.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:35 pm

"Coaching" is another term for "teaching" .Given the mistakes we make game after game , that might be where we fall short.The fact that we are close , regardless of the level of competition might reinforce the same.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by OldAppPlayer » Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:51 pm

ASUTodd wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:02 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:50 am
We are definitely on the wrong end of NIL. Unless there are App related businesses who want to shell out money for decent football players we will probably lose our better ones who can go be role players at P5's for pocket change there. We might get lucky in the portal but by and large we are grabbing dudes who didn't pan out with their former school. This new world stinks.
I look at it as the same walk-ons we used to get and mold into great players. We may not get the best but we make them the best. Well, we used to.
Just curious, how many walk-ons have we molded into great players?

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by OldAppPlayer » Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:55 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:35 pm
"Coaching" is another term for "teaching" .Given the mistakes we make game after game , that might be where we fall short.The fact that we are close , regardless of the level of competition might reinforce the same.
Many of the mistakes we make are plays college players should never make. It’s not like this is pop Warner football. Last night we downed a punt that probably would have rolled another ten yards or more. Multiple droppped passes should not be happening. There’s a lot wrong with our football program right now, it’s not just the coaching. As someone stated, we don’t have any alphas that make winning plays this year. It’s always the coach’s fault when you lose and it’s because of the players when you win.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 2:36 pm

hapapp wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:58 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:10 am
Big daddy give it up, you asked a silly question, it’s been answered. Now you’d like to discuss semantics of your silly question. Take the L and move on, all your goals are still in front of you.
Actually, he's just calling into question the validity of some of the examples. But you'd rather just give a snarky answer.

I would agree one should not ask a question like that without already knowing the answer. I guess I'm just disappointed that we have devolved to this point that we can't be civil with fellow App fans. I think there are certainly strong, compelling arguments that a change may need to take place at season's end. I also think that a case can be made that would be hasty and counterproductive with such a young team. I realize we are all passionate about App State football and regardless of where one falls on this issue, we all are thinking of the best interests of the team's future.
We are not as young as people think and often many of the mistakes made in games have been by veteran players.

The reason there is a false narrative we have a young team is because our SIDs (or maybe coaches) have decided to list players with COVID eligibility so we look younger than we are. A lot of schools are not doing that and are listing players like a Nate Noel as a senior when we are not doing that.

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Re: Let's talk about Clark

Unread post by WASU 93 » Sun Oct 22, 2023 3:38 pm

Yosef10 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:26 am
WASU 93 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:38 am
AppStateMtneer wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:28 am
Agreed. It’s his players and it’s his surrounding staff. The coaches may not be the ones on the field making the mental mistakes, lining up incorrectly, hitting the wrong gap, missing the tackle, fumbling the ball… But they were the ones that were responsible for that player being on the roster in the first place. Clark chose these coaches. These coaches recruited those players. Those were Clark’s decisions. This is Clark’s team.

We wanted a coach that would provide stability to our program. After the revolving door with the coaching staff, we wanted him to provide stability for our players. I’m not sure if Clark was a lazy higher by our AD. At the time, I thought it was a good hire and the choice we needed. Clark definitely has the passion and I know he wants things to succeed but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to do it. If App State continues having a revolving door of coaches that are just using us as that steppingstone in order to move onto the next level and make more money for themselves then so be it… that would mean that we are winning.

We have become way too predictable. It was evident that Clark was coaching for his job last night. We benefited on risky fourth down calls that panned out in the first half. Two of those fourth downs should have resulted in field-goal attempts and a higher percentage of guaranteed points. The gambles paid off and kept us in the game, but just because it worked doesn’t make it the right decision.
If a coach on the opposing team would take the 5 yard dump pass to the outside each play, they would score on every drive. I have no explanation on why we line our defensive backs 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage consistently… are they just that bad? And again, if that is the case, that is the coaches fault.

The NIL and transfer portal have changed, and in my opinion, ruined college football. That being said, it provides the opportunity for a team with a new coaching staff, to more quickly choose the players that fit their scheme and fill a roster with who they want on the field. It should not take a new coach and his staff multiple years to have “their” players like it did in the past.
I don’t disagree with what you say. The transfer portal does allow a team to quickly fill gaps. But, the NIL is not in Clark’s favor, nor will it be in any coaches favor that coaches in Boone.

And, what is different in today’s environment Vs. Satt’s is that you have to keep recruiting your players every season and you have to keep recruiting your recruits up to signing day and beyond.

In my opinion, we play too many wide receivers. Horn and Robinson should be in on 80% of our offensive snaps (in two receiver or more sets). But, we may rotate six guys in because (possibly) we have to keep them all “happy” to keep them from bolting.

Prior to the NIL, we were in a great place as a program because we could develop players over 4-5 years and they were generally going to stick with the program. We potentially don’t have that luxury any more.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but no SBC school is in a good spot when it comes to NIL, it’s a pretty level playing field.
It's hard to research. However, just based on populations I would think that there are more NIL opportunities in Mobile, Lafayette, the Tidewater, Harrisonburg and even Conway. Even Biff Poggi had a summer paid internship program for some of his players at Lowe's corporate offices.

Again, when I tried to research it, it looks like most of the tracking is on P5 programs.

That's why i think that one of the biggest positions for App State going forward is to have a Corporate Sponsor/NIL recruiter who can plug our overall athletic programs in to companies within a 75 mile or 100 mile radius of Boone.

While it's not NIL related, this article about the Sun Belt Athletic Department Power Index is interesting:https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/ ... -sun-belt/
It's dated (before two programs left and four joined), but we rank at the top. I'd love to see them re-rank with JMU/ODU/Southern Miss/Marshall

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