#TeamClark

[DenverOfTheEast]

Grad transfers can be a great quick fix but that's not how to build a program. By definition, you generally have a year of eligibility and you are replacing that position again. Grad transfers are a great way to buy time for a younger player to develop and plug holes, but not the ongoing solution. Just my opinion of course.

It's a position or gap filler, great Post!!

problem is you can't hold them super accountable like a underclassmen, they can get sideways on you and be a distraction if a underclassmen player beats them out, don't have to attend class either, etc.

Example: Chase Brice was a good pickup once Zac didn't want to come back.

But in a perfect recruiting world you don't want to play the Graduate Transfer gamble each spring recruiting, it's not what App State football was built on.

[pop5app]

Do the remaining state schools have this admissions issue? I do notice that there are no NC state schools on the list? OR is this admissions issue an APP STATE thing only?

[appdaze]

A better stat would be to show how many of them are starters. Have their average playtime beside each player on each teams roster for comparison. What are their game stats? How many of those players actually matter?

Ive never really believed in rebuild years in college sports. You know your players will be with you for 3-4 years. That is why you are constantly recruiting to have their replacements on the team and ready for when they leave. If your replacements aren't good enough that is on you as the coach. Calling it a rebuild year just means the coach didn't do their job well enough on the recruiting front. Calling it a rebuild year is just an excuse. That goes for every team out there. Now throw in the portal and that makes the rebuild idea even more of an excuse. Especially a coach in year 4.

Clark has a lot to prove at this point. Each season under him has been a decline from the last. So far this season is following that trend. He's got time to turn it around with his recruits that he should have had trained up for this moment so we will see how we end this season. Enthusiasm is great, blind enthusiasm doesn't help. Blind enthusiasm invites mediocrity as the norm. Constantly chiding those that disagrees with you helps absolutely nothing but your ego which isn't what "team" players do. That just makes me think you want fans mad at each other and that you purposely want division which is the opposite of what we need. So starting yet another thread to achieve that helps no one but your ego. Aka, not a team player. Thankfully you don't have Clark's ear as that would be horrible for our organization, and if by some reason you do, maybe that explains the mediocrity.

[DenverOfTheEast]

A better stat would be to show how many of them are starters. Have their average playtime beside each player on each teams roster for comparison. What are their game stats? How many of those players actually matter?

Ive never really believed in rebuild years in college sports. You know your players will be with you for 3-4 years. That is why you are constantly recruiting to have their replacements on the team and ready for when they leave. If your replacements aren't good enough that is on you as the coach. Calling it a rebuild year just means the coach didn't do their job well enough on the recruiting front. Calling it a rebuild year is just an excuse. That goes for every team out there. Now throw in the portal and that makes the rebuild idea even more of an excuse. Especially a coach in year 4.

Clark has a lot to prove at this point. Each season under him has been a decline from the last. So far this season is following that trend. He's got time to turn it around with his recruits that he should have had trained up for this moment so we will see how we end this season. Enthusiasm is great, blind enthusiasm doesn't help. Blind enthusiasm invites mediocrity as the norm. Constantly chiding those that disagrees with you helps absolutely nothing but your ego which isn't what "team" players do. That just makes me think you want fans mad at each other and that you purposely want division which is the opposite of what we need. So starting yet another thread to achieve that helps no one but your ego. Aka, not a team player. Thankfully you don't have Clark's ear as that would be horrible for our organization, and if by some reason you do, maybe that explains the mediocrity.

1) you are more than welcome to do this big guy,

2)And no one in coaching coulda have predicted a COVID log jam and the portal and what that would do to rosters.

It has greatly improved (portal) some programs but it is about to come back to earth, plus we don't mention the possible NIL money other programs are paying compared to Appy.

[Yosef84]

Do the remaining state schools have this admissions issue? I do notice that there are no NC state schools on the list? OR is this admissions issue an APP STATE thing only?

I can't speak to whether other state schools have the admissions issue, but it probably varies. App does have a specific rule against accepting non-qualifiers which is not a system issue. It's an App rule that we can thank Capel for because he got our basketball program in APR trouble by using non-qualifiers. We've never taken significant numbers of non-qualifiers and of course, that isn't an issue with grad transfers.

Duke has an interesting niche for grad transfers though and they've apparently figured out how to exploit it...at least for now. They have prestige programs and an academic reputation that probably make them attractive to certain players. I don't know that many programs could duplicate that process. I also doubt that is the long term plan for sustainability. I'm impressed with Duke this year because, even those grad transfers aren't really 4 and 5 star recruits. They are solid athletes who are executing (tackling) really well. Kudos to the coaching staff. I'm not a Duke or ACC fan so my information might be incorrect but that's my impression from flying at 10,000 feet.

[Yosef10]

Clark has been coach for 4 years. Assistant coaching turnover and losing recruits is on him too. He’s the head coach.

Assistant coaching turnover comes down to App State doesn't squat and you not keeping someone who is going to a P5, you are just being kinda stupid at this point over that topic.

Everyone loses recruits in every sport, you're making up something that isn't relevant or close to topic.

Outside of Tony Petersen, who I believe was going to be let go annyways, which assistants of Clark’s have moved on to a P5, let alone anywhere else? Best I recall, all coaching turnover has been due to Clark having to move on from guys who aren’t working out.

[BambooRdApp]

Do the remaining state schools have this admissions issue? I do notice that there are no NC state schools on the list? OR is this admissions issue an APP STATE thing only?

I can't speak to whether other state schools have the admissions issue, but it probably varies. App does have a specific rule against accepting non-qualifiers which is not a system issue. It's an App rule that we can thank Capel for because he got our basketball program in APR trouble by using non-qualifiers. We've never taken significant numbers of non-qualifiers and of course, that isn't an issue with grad transfers.

Duke has an interesting niche for grad transfers though and they've apparently figured out how to exploit it...at least for now. They have prestige programs and an academic reputation that probably make them attractive to certain players. I don't know that many programs could duplicate that process. I also doubt that is the long term plan for sustainability. I'm impressed with Duke this year because, even those grad transfers aren't really 4 and 5 star recruits. They are solid athletes who are executing (tackling) really well. Kudos to the coaching staff. I'm not a Duke or ACC fan so my information might be incorrect but that's my impression from flying at 10,000 feet.

Dook has done well even if it pains me given I evidently am a rabid tarheel fan. The coach has put together a great staff. If not after this year, he may be gone soon after for the money. Not sure who or how many graduates...but if Leonard is still eligible (although the backup looked pretty good)...they could be good next year too.
Go Heels!!. I am going to put on my Heels gear as I type this.

[AppStFan1]

This is a very valid point that many don't want to hear. The constant coaching changes between the end of the seasons in 18 and 19 coupled with significant position coach and coordinator changes since 18 helped lead to a situation where we have very little older experienced players. It makes a difference. And I don't say that as an excuse, it is just a fact of the matter for our team.

Our real number is 31 because our staff has listed the COVID eligibility of each player. Like last year Hodges and Hampton were listed as juniors but with out COVID they were actually redshirt seniors instead of listed as a redshirt junior.

your'e so clueless - you send me a private message saying our kicker is a sophomore and the roster has him as a junior. App State real number is not 31, some kids have normal redshirts but they won't get that extra COVID year o r 6th or 7th year.

Don't send me a private message anymore trying to be my friend and make peace, when your data is off by miles. I do my research.

That was a typo but the point is that he is not a senior and the NFL is not looking at junior kickers who aren't consistent inside of 50.

Our roster has 31 players who are in 7th year, 6th year, 5th year, or true seniors. That is fact. I just counted again.

If you just want 5th year or older players then we have 21!!

I am sure you were not counting Milan Tucker because it says junior but look at his bio: https://appstatesports.com/sports/footb ... ucker/8075

Tucker is in his 5th year!

[AppStFan1]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

[AppStFan1]

I hope and pray that Shawn has someone around him as smart as me to put this on paper in front of Dougie and the Circle of Fakes:

The following teams and the number of 5th year or older players, I researched each roster web site,(you are free to google this as well) the following numbers DO NOT INCLUDE normal seniors:


#17 - DUKE - has 25 Graduate Transfers, yes 25!!! probably the reason they are ranked and whipped Clemson.

JMU - 13 Graduate or 5th year seniors
MARSHALL - 13 Graduate or 5th year seniors
GA State - 14 Graduate or 5th year seniors

now here is where this sh*t gets good.....

Coastal Carolina has 31 Graduate or 5th year seniors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ga STINK University --- 31 Graduate or OLDER.
They have 11 players in their 6th year of COLLEGE!! and 1 player in his 7th year!! (this reminded me of a YosefCabin board member AppState95&97 )


Now, how many does #TeamClark/AppState have __________ only 7........

So I would say and continue to repeat myself this is the rebuild!!!!! leave him alone he is building it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Question. Did you know that App State's website has added the COVID year to all our players so the redshirt juniors or 5th year juniors are really seniors if not for COVID? I am pretty sure the other schools aren't doing that. Our real number is 31 if you don't give the COVID year like the other schools have done.

For example, Brendan Harrington is listed as a redshirt junior because of his medical years and we have adjusted our roster to give him the COVID year instead of listing like normal and then just adding super senior at the end. Dashaun Davis is in his 5th year. Noel is a true senior.

Duke is not doing that. So their OT Graham Barton is listed as a senior but on App State's roster he would be listed as a 4th year junior.

That is why the numbers are off.

I stated before if they had (R) or (Gr) or (6th) or (7th) in their class column they were counted in the above data. I didn't count a person with normal (Sr) and why would I count any underclassmen...

My research and points are proven correctly time and time again.

If you don't want to count a true senior then that is fine. Our number is 21 instead of 7 then. What do you think a 5th year redshirt junior is? It is a redshirt senior who could take a COVID year.

You know how you said App is doing things differently with transfer admission? That is true. What you are failing to see is that App is also listing classes differently as well. You are manipulating a number to make it say what you want.

I know and like Shawn as well. I first met him when he played so I have been around him way longer than you. If Shawn finishes strong he will be retained but if he goes 6-6 or worse, he won't and I actually understand it.

[BambooRdApp]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

[Yosef84]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

I have to disagree that those are the two options. The university is NOT going to relax academic standards to accommodate athletic recruiting, nor should it. App State has appropriate standards. We aren't Harvard, or even Duke when it comes to our admissions. In my opinion, Clark has addressed the transfer issue. He has acknowledged that he was slow to leverage the portal but I think he did a good job this past year. Everyone is going through a learning curve with the portal. Some programs have done better than others, but it remains to be seen how those "success" stories play out in terms of sustainability. Regarding the second point, yes we need to always focus on HS recruits. I think we do and always have had that emphasis and that is how it should be. Finding a balance between HS recruiting and the portal is the key to sustainability. The transfer portal has only existed since 2018 and it was turbo charged by the eligibility changes that grew out of COVID and the removal of the year ineligibility all combined with NIL. All the success stories at this point are really just data points because there hasn't been enough time to really evaluate trends under current rules.

[AppStFan1]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that. I'm not trying to pile on Shawn but he made those hires and that is part of the job.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Clark has been coach for 4 years. Assistant coaching turnover and losing recruits is on him too. He’s the head coach.

Assistant coaching turnover comes down to App State doesn't squat and you not keeping someone who is going to a P5, you are just being kinda stupid at this point over that topic.

Everyone loses recruits in every sport, you're making up something that isn't relevant or close to topic.

Outside of Tony Petersen, who I believe was going to be let go annyways, which assistants of Clark’s have moved on to a P5, let alone anywhere else? Best I recall, all coaching turnover has been due to Clark having to move on from guys who aren’t working out.

Peterson ==== Illinois (whether you THINK he was going to get fired is a rumor debate, they won 9 games with him as OC, #TeamClark wasn't going to fire him just because the CircleofFakes and this board wanted it.

Barbay +=== Mississippi State (Barbay replaced Ponce) and then Ponce came back this year...

Ponce ==== Miami (Ponce replaced Peterson)

Another D line coach went to Army

Old guy(former Western Carolina Head Coach and Jerry Moore assistant) went with Satt to Louisville.

Several young guys have moved that may have been GA's or analyst under #TeamClark

Jeep wade left last year for ===== Ga Tech.

You guys asking me questions like this shows you guys don't even "KNOW" your on program...

[Pikapp79]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

[Yosef84]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that.

Surely you're not saying that, as a strategy, we shouldn't seek filling our needs earlier. Yes, we did used to get those late commits, but since the early signing period has been in effect, and now with the portal in full swing, nothing works the way it used to work. I don't know that those gems are still out there in today's world. In the old world, there were always some studs who were holding out for that possible P5 offer and lots of movement before signing day. I just think that, in today's world if you are still trying to fill needs in the High School recruiting market in February, you have likely missed the boat. I'm not saying never, but I can't imagine that being a strategy.

Hold a few spaces open for last minute or transfer but early commits are a good thing.

[DenverOfTheEast]

This is a very valid point that many don't want to hear. The constant coaching changes between the end of the seasons in 18 and 19 coupled with significant position coach and coordinator changes since 18 helped lead to a situation where we have very little older experienced players. It makes a difference. And I don't say that as an excuse, it is just a fact of the matter for our team.

Our real number is 31 because our staff has listed the COVID eligibility of each player. Like last year Hodges and Hampton were listed as juniors but with out COVID they were actually redshirt seniors instead of listed as a redshirt junior.

your'e so clueless - you send me a private message saying our kicker is a sophomore and the roster has him as a junior. App State real number is not 31, some kids have normal redshirts but they won't get that extra COVID year o r 6th or 7th year.

Don't send me a private message anymore trying to be my friend and make peace, when your data is off by miles. I do my research.

That was a typo but the point is that he is not a senior and the NFL is not looking at junior kickers who aren't consistent inside of 50.

Our roster has 31 players who are in 7th year, 6th year, 5th year, or true seniors. That is fact. I just counted again.

If you just want 5th year or older players then we have 21!!

I am sure you were not counting Milan Tucker because it says junior but look at his bio: https://appstatesports.com/sports/footb ... ucker/8075

Tucker is in his 5th year!

But here is the difference, He redshirted in 2019, then played in 2020 (that year doesn't count per NCAA) so technically by my count he doesn't count on the initial post until next season..... So all this proves is the other schools have even more older players than Appy

Plus he fumbled when he needs to just go down, so I would tell him to go in the portal. costing Appy a win. Play #12

[AppStFan1]

Grad transfers can be a great quick fix but that's not how to build a program. By definition, you generally have a year of eligibility and you are replacing that position again. Grad transfers are a great way to buy time for a younger player to develop and plug holes, but not the ongoing solution. Just my opinion of course.

It's a position or gap filler, great Post!!

problem is you can't hold them super accountable like a underclassmen, they can get sideways on you and be a distraction if a underclassmen player beats them out, don't have to attend class either, etc.

Example: Chase Brice was a good pickup once Zac didn't want to come back.

But in a perfect recruiting world you don't want to play the Graduate Transfer gamble each spring recruiting, it's not what App State football was built on.

I agree with this take for the most part and believe you want to focus more on high school players. Above though you made the point that we have less of them than Ga State, Duke, etc and made it seem that is why we are struggling. Isn't that contradictory?

[AppStFan1]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

I have to disagree that those are the two options. The university is NOT going to relax academic standards to accommodate athletic recruiting, nor should it. App State has appropriate standards. We aren't Harvard, or even Duke when it comes to our admissions. In my opinion, Clark has addressed the transfer issue. He has acknowledged that he was slow to leverage the portal but I think he did a good job this past year. Everyone is going through a learning curve with the portal. Some programs have done better than others, but it remains to be seen how those "success" stories play out in terms of sustainability. Regarding the second point, yes we need to always focus on HS recruits. I think we do and always have had that emphasis and that is how it should be. Finding a balance between HS recruiting and the portal is the key to sustainability. The transfer portal has only existed since 2018 and it was turbo charged by the eligibility changes that grew out of COVID and the removal of the year ineligibility all combined with NIL. All the success stories at this point are really just data points because there hasn't been enough time to really evaluate trends under current rules.

I'm just saying if we are going to cry about it being tougher then we could lower them but I don't want to do that. I 100% agree with you.

Shawn was slow to leverage the portal. There has to be a balance. We should not be signing 15-20 players a year in the portal but we also can't ignore it either.

[DenverOfTheEast]

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that.

Surely you're not saying that, as a strategy, we shouldn't seek filling our needs earlier. Yes, we did used to get those late commits, but since the early signing period has been in effect, and now with the portal in full swing, nothing works the way it used to work. I don't know that those gems are still out there in today's world. In the old world, there were always some studs who were holding out for that possible P5 offer and lots of movement before signing day. I just think that, in today's world if you are still trying to fill needs in the High School recruiting market in February, you have likely missed the boat. I'm not saying never, but I can't imagine that being a strategy.

Hold a few spaces open for last minute or transfer but early commits are a good thing.

It's not holding the spaces that's the big deal, App State only has 1 major that these "portal kids" can technically transfer into 1) communications

It's the Progress toward degree rule where App kills their athletic programs in the new portal world, plus App State doesn't;t take C's -- only A's AND B's from other institutions.

Marshall, both Georgia schools, all the west division teams and coastal Carolina will take D's from another transcript. I would say ODU and JMU are a bit conservative but I wouldn't bet against them either.