Deuce

[appbanker]

I want to give a shout out to Deuce Robinson. He was a beast on the d-line. A lot of people have commented in other threads about the team being fired up and playing with a new passion. I think a lot of the credit should go to Deuce. He made a couple of key plays in the beginning of the game and I think the rest of the defense and the team picked up on his energy.

[Appftw]

And who doesn't love the "DEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCEEE" chant?

[AppAlum1]

Yep, he did a GREAT job Saturday.

I still think that D formation where we rushed 3 & pulled 8 back about 12 yds off the LOS was appsolutely GENIUS!!!

I believe I counted we ran that 3 times. On the 2nd time, Deuce got a SACK!!!

Woo - Hoo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaphneUrquhart]

Yep, he did a GREAT job Saturday.

I still think that D formation where we rushed 3 & pulled 8 back about 12 yds off the LOS was appsolutely GENIUS!!!

I believe I counted we ran that 3 times. On the 2nd time, Deuce got a SACK!!!

Woo - Hoo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I first saw our guys line up like that at Furman. My first reaction was, "This could be genius if it works." At the Furman game it was out of place in a D that wasn't clicking well. Saturday, when the D was beasting it all day, it was a great added feature.

[MtnDevil95]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

[appst89]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

[AppAlum1]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

Apparently, the reason it works is that QB has nothing to read & flat knows not what to do. Even 3 rushers can get a sack if no one is open & they have enough time. I would imagine that an offense could counter it with some sort of play that drew some of the 8 up to the line somehow before the run/pass developed, but I really have no idea what would work against it. A quick punt, maybe???

For the 3 - 8 to work, it would have to be 3rd or 4th & long. Obviously, the middle/short field is wide open. Problem is for offense that any running play or short pass will have 8 tacklers.

I don't recall seeing Wofford run this formation either, but I presume it came from Woody. Pure GENIUS!

[moonshine]

I was surprised they didn't try to run a screen to put blockers out in open space and force the D to make a play. It sure would've beaten taking a sack from 3 pass rushers.

[ganorris0818]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

Apparently, the reason it works is that QB has nothing to read & flat knows not what to do. Even 3 rushers can get a sack if no one is open & they have enough time. I would imagine that an offense could counter it with some sort of play that drew some of the 8 up to the line somehow before the run/pass developed, but I really have no idea what would work against it. A quick punt, maybe???

For the 3 - 8 to work, it would have to be 3rd or 4th & long. Obviously, the middle/short field is wide open. Problem is for offense that any running play or short pass will have 8 tacklers.

I don't recall seeing Wofford run this formation either, but I presume it came from Woody. Pure GENIUS!

I've got a little different take on that formation. We used it twice I believe at Furman, and they did the appropriate thing with it both times -- they passed short and picked up some good yardage due to the open field. Fortunately for us, Georgia Southern crapped their pants when they saw it. Yes, it pretty much keeps them from getting the first down on third or fourth and long, but in at least one of the instances at Furman it allowed them in to field goal range. They did miss the field goal but that's three potential points that we shouldn't give up, which can often be the difference in a game. Basically we are conceding a 10-12 yard play which, yes, may keep them from the first down, but can easily allow them to get into field goal range or a manageable fourth down try. If we play a normal package and get an incompletion or stop a run for only a few yards, it's a clear punting situation. I do agree that the package could be genius for situations on the opponent's side of the field, but anything from the 50 on gives the other team an easy opportunity to creep into field goal range or a manageable fourth down attempt, or even get a more makeable field goal opportunity. And I've only seen us on our side of the field, so I'm just not a huge fan of that package right now.

[3rd]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

Apparently, the reason it works is that QB has nothing to read & flat knows not what to do. Even 3 rushers can get a sack if no one is open & they have enough time. I would imagine that an offense could counter it with some sort of play that drew some of the 8 up to the line somehow before the run/pass developed, but I really have no idea what would work against it. A quick punt, maybe???

For the 3 - 8 to work, it would have to be 3rd or 4th & long. Obviously, the middle/short field is wide open. Problem is for offense that any running play or short pass will have 8 tacklers.

I don't recall seeing Wofford run this formation either, but I presume it came from Woody. Pure GENIUS!

I've got a little different take on that formation. We used it twice I believe at Furman, and they did the appropriate thing with it both times -- they passed short and picked up some good yardage due to the open field. Fortunately for us, Georgia Southern crapped their pants when they saw it. Yes, it pretty much keeps them from getting the first down on third or fourth and long, but in at least one of the instances at Furman it allowed them in to field goal range. They did miss the field goal but that's three potential points that we shouldn't give up, which can often be the difference in a game. Basically we are conceding a 10-12 yard play which, yes, may keep them from the first down, but can easily allow them to get into field goal range or a manageable fourth down try. If we play a normal package and get an incompletion or stop a run for only a few yards, it's a clear punting situation. I do agree that the package could be genius for situations on the opponent's side of the field, but anything from the 50 on gives the other team an easy opportunity to creep into field goal range or a manageable fourth down attempt, or even get a more makeable field goal opportunity. And I've only seen us on our side of the field, so I'm just not a huge fan of that package right now.

And if we play a normal package and one person gets beat on the outside (what happened the first 5 games) then they score a TD on 3rd and 15 or get a first down. This D came from us not being able to stop a nose bleed on 3rd and long and 4th and long. Pretty sure Charleston Southern scored twice on 3rd and goal from around the 15/16.

[ganorris0818]

Have an of you seen, or know of any other teams running a "3-8" defense?

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

Apparently, the reason it works is that QB has nothing to read & flat knows not what to do. Even 3 rushers can get a sack if no one is open & they have enough time. I would imagine that an offense could counter it with some sort of play that drew some of the 8 up to the line somehow before the run/pass developed, but I really have no idea what would work against it. A quick punt, maybe???

For the 3 - 8 to work, it would have to be 3rd or 4th & long. Obviously, the middle/short field is wide open. Problem is for offense that any running play or short pass will have 8 tacklers.

I don't recall seeing Wofford run this formation either, but I presume it came from Woody. Pure GENIUS!

I've got a little different take on that formation. We used it twice I believe at Furman, and they did the appropriate thing with it both times -- they passed short and picked up some good yardage due to the open field. Fortunately for us, Georgia Southern crapped their pants when they saw it. Yes, it pretty much keeps them from getting the first down on third or fourth and long, but in at least one of the instances at Furman it allowed them in to field goal range. They did miss the field goal but that's three potential points that we shouldn't give up, which can often be the difference in a game. Basically we are conceding a 10-12 yard play which, yes, may keep them from the first down, but can easily allow them to get into field goal range or a manageable fourth down try. If we play a normal package and get an incompletion or stop a run for only a few yards, it's a clear punting situation. I do agree that the package could be genius for situations on the opponent's side of the field, but anything from the 50 on gives the other team an easy opportunity to creep into field goal range or a manageable fourth down attempt, or even get a more makeable field goal opportunity. And I've only seen us on our side of the field, so I'm just not a huge fan of that package right now.

And if we play a normal package and one person gets beat on the outside (what happened the first 5 games) then they score a TD on 3rd and 15 or get a first down. This D came from us not being able to stop a nose bleed on 3rd and long and 4th and long. Pretty sure Charleston Southern scored twice on 3rd and goal from around the 15/16.

Oh I certainly agree that it beats giving up a TD like we did on way too many occasions early in the year. But those were really just simple missed assignments and/or poor tackling. I'd rather see us make easy corrections than put in a "concession" package. I mean, I would assume we spent just as much time (if not more) teaching the players that package as it would have taken to just remind them of their assignments in the normal package.

[moehler]

this new defensive formation works for us, because we couldn't get off the dam field in the first 7 ballgames on third and long. Now, I don't see it as a long term solution, eventually, teams will get enough film, and come up with ways to beat it, but until we get all these young player up to speed, especially the mental part, it works in the short term.

[ASUMountaineer]

One of the guys with me on Saturday was a high school defensive coach, making his first visit to an App game. He nearly flipped when he saw that formation. He had his phone out snapping a picture faster than you could blink. He asked me if we ran that formation often and said he had never seen it before. He was pretty amazed by the formation and even more amazed that we got a sack out of it. He sent the pics to the D-Coordinator at the high school where he coaches. Wouldn't be surprised if I see it this Friday night.

Apparently, the reason it works is that QB has nothing to read & flat knows not what to do. Even 3 rushers can get a sack if no one is open & they have enough time. I would imagine that an offense could counter it with some sort of play that drew some of the 8 up to the line somehow before the run/pass developed, but I really have no idea what would work against it. A quick punt, maybe???

For the 3 - 8 to work, it would have to be 3rd or 4th & long. Obviously, the middle/short field is wide open. Problem is for offense that any running play or short pass will have 8 tacklers.

I don't recall seeing Wofford run this formation either, but I presume it came from Woody. Pure GENIUS!

I've got a little different take on that formation. We used it twice I believe at Furman, and they did the appropriate thing with it both times -- they passed short and picked up some good yardage due to the open field. Fortunately for us, Georgia Southern crapped their pants when they saw it. Yes, it pretty much keeps them from getting the first down on third or fourth and long, but in at least one of the instances at Furman it allowed them in to field goal range. They did miss the field goal but that's three potential points that we shouldn't give up, which can often be the difference in a game. Basically we are conceding a 10-12 yard play which, yes, may keep them from the first down, but can easily allow them to get into field goal range or a manageable fourth down try. If we play a normal package and get an incompletion or stop a run for only a few yards, it's a clear punting situation. I do agree that the package could be genius for situations on the opponent's side of the field, but anything from the 50 on gives the other team an easy opportunity to creep into field goal range or a manageable fourth down attempt, or even get a more makeable field goal opportunity. And I've only seen us on our side of the field, so I'm just not a huge fan of that package right now.

And if we play a normal package and one person gets beat on the outside (what happened the first 5 games) then they score a TD on 3rd and 15 or get a first down. This D came from us not being able to stop a nose bleed on 3rd and long and 4th and long. Pretty sure Charleston Southern scored twice on 3rd and goal from around the 15/16.

Oh I certainly agree that it beats giving up a TD like we did on way too many occasions early in the year. But those were really just simple missed assignments and/or poor tackling. I'd rather see us make easy corrections than put in a "concession" package. I mean, I would assume we spent just as much time (if not more) teaching the players that package as it would have taken to just remind them of their assignments in the normal package.[/quote]

Ehh, I trust Woody's experience and abilities as a coach over my Friday-QBing.

[asufan87]

I was surprised they didn't try to run a screen to put blockers out in open space and force the D to make a play. It sure would've beaten taking a sack from 3 pass rushers.

That's how I would attack this scheme. You're not going to get behind the defenders, so check into a screen with plenty of lead blockers.

[ganorris0818]

I still trust Woody's experience too, even though he's proved to have a difficult time this year. It's because of his experience that I would hope we don't get used to using this package on a regular basis and instead learn how to make stops. Once we get our feet back under us, we need to be able to get offenses off the field instead of giving up field goal opportunities that should be punts. It is certainly better than how awful we were on 3rd and long in the first several games, but I don't think it is a viable long term solution on our side of the field.

[ASUMountaineer]

I still trust Woody's experience too, even though he's proved to have a difficult time this year. It's because of his experience that I would hope we don't get used to using this package on a regular basis and instead learn how to make stops. Once we get our feet back under us, we need to be able to get offenses off the field instead of giving up field goal opportunities that should be punts. It is certainly better than how awful we were on 3rd and long in the first several games, but I don't think it is a viable long term solution on our side of the field.

I'm not sure there's been an indication that this is a long-term solution.

[BeauFoster]

I'm not sure there's been an indication that this is a long-term solution.

Totally agree. I think we used it a few times against FU to get a feel for it, and to have a bit of tape to dissect in the week before GSU. It's a trick play, but on the defensive side of the ball. I'd be surprised if we see it 1 or 2 more times this season.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm not sure there's been an indication that this is a long-term solution.

Totally agree. I think we used it a few times against FU to get a feel for it, and to have a bit of tape to dissect in the week before GSU. It's a trick play, but on the defensive side of the ball. I'd be surprised if we see it 1 or 2 more times this season.

I'm for anything that keeps the opposing offense guessing/on its heels.

[mtnjax]

we should only have to "worry" about seeing this defensive formation on 3rd and long (12+)

what i would like to see them do is, when the other team breaks the huddle, our D already be in a normal 3-4 look and then as the O approaches the line they back out into the new "38" look. that way the coaches in the booth don't get as much time to decipher and change the play

[moehler]

got to give Woody alot credit, unlike with past coordinators, he is willing to try different formations, yes, sometimes gimmicky, but atleast he is willing to be creative, and try and find ways to win a game. He is also great, that during the game, if his game plan isn't working, he is willing to make adjustments. I cant wait to see what he will do once he gets a few of his recruiting classes in.