NY Gov Gun Laws...

[ASUPATCH]

Will the "assault" weapons ban curb ANY mass shootings? They are used in less than 1 percent of shootings. If the pres wants to do something why not do something that will work??? This is nothing but political BS to look like he is doing something. Do you actually think this will work? lol
How can people not see that if this "assault" weapon was not there that the crazed boy in Newtown would have used a couple pistols with several magazines and would have been able to conceal them without being noticed.

You completely contradict yourself in the first sentence. Will the assualt weapons ban currb mass shooting. Then you bing up a stat for all shooting? How about how disproportionatly Assault weapons or high cap mags are used in mass shooting? If the Newtown kid had lower power weapon with more reloading time it could have saved multiple lives. Its easy math. More powerful gun+ammo with fewer reloads equals more deaths. Lets see.....Newton, Aurora, Fort Hood all used either AR's with high cap mags or in the fort hood instance 20-30 mags on hand guns. Luckily the VT kids didn purchase high cap mags or that could have been even worse. Less reloading means less oportunity to defend onesself wether it be with or without a gun.

You must not shoot very much. When you say "reloading," just how long do you think it takes to stick another magazine in a pistol?
We do not have a rifle problem in gun violence. If anything it is a handgun issue (even though I don't believe it is a gun issue at all).
More powerful guns? Are you saying more powerful guns at point blank range kills better than less powerful guns at point blank range? You are the one that contradicts yourself?
You are also saying the VT kid luckily didn't have high cap mags. He didn't need them! It's just as easy to change mags in about 2 seconds. He did the exact same thing with less powerful (you said it yourself) guns with smaller mags....

I shoot quite often. Being through both a police academy and correctional officer academy I have done quick reloads many times as a part of my qualification of employment ans inservice. I did a combat course that included simulated rounds(blank being fired) My reload time as well as my classmates was drastically slower than 2 second in such a scenario.Saying you can reload in 2 second with your heart rate at 190 bpm isnt accurate. Hell on the range in perfect conditions I could hit a 1 1/2. Hands shaking pulling out the mag seating it and making the first round ready is more likely to take 3-4 second in such a circumstance. Hell 3-4 second may give our kids or loved ones enough time to get away. More than enough time to attempt some form of self defense. Your right we dont have an assault rifle issue in standar gun violence. But as the number prove a disproportionate amount mass shooting involve such weapons and magazines. And yes an AR15 can kill far more effectively with more power at close range. The ammo alone for it pales a handguns ammo by comparison.

[appbio91]

If the shoe fits....
I hope you are just trying to play the devils advocate or just trying to liven up the debate by saying we should not ban assaualt weapons and high cap magazines because we need them to protect ourselves from the government.

[ASUPATCH]

There have been 62 "mass" (4 murders in a single event) shootings in the last 30 years. Weapons recoverd from thoose shooting included 35 assault weapons. So of the 62 mass shooting more than half included some form of assault weapon. This doesnt included pistols with high cap mags like Fort Hood. So will it curb mass shooting? Doubtful although numbers show it is a main weapon of choice. Will it make such shootings less deadly? Of course.

And as far as the bad people will still get the guns if they are outlawed. 75% of the guns used in theses shooting were obtained leagally. It not past criminals circumventing the system doing this. We are legally selling guns to 75% of these psychos.

Question? How many of those mass shootings were in "Gun Free Zones"?[/quote]

19 were at private businesses. So maybe some were gun free otheres werent. Depens on the employer.
12 were schools were I agree that each public school should have a highly trained armed officer on site.
31 were other which include shopping malls (not normally gun free) nursing home(not sure), churches(depends on the church) Restaurants(not normally gun free) government building(depends on the building) private residences(no gun free there)

[ASUPATCH]

If I were a guns, any size and power anyone kind of person I would take this deal the president is offering and run with it. If not you may have a democratic House Senate and President in 2014 and they will propose stuff even I think would be far to liberal.

[AppGrad1]

If the shoe fits....
I hope you are just trying to play the devils advocate or just trying to liven up the debate by saying we should not ban assaualt weapons and high cap magazines because we need them to protect ourselves from the government.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
I guess the writers of the Constitution were crazy too...

[ASUPATCH]

If the shoe fits....
I hope you are just trying to play the devils advocate or just trying to liven up the debate by saying we should not ban assaualt weapons and high cap magazines because we need them to protect ourselves from the government.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
I guess the writers of the Constitution were crazy too...

They are outdated. What was another one of their ideas. Oh yeah women and minorities cant vote? Sound crazy enough for you. We have a military no militia could touch and we arent losing our right to bear arms. It didnt say a right to bear any arms you want no matter how deadly it could be.

[appst89]

Assault weapons, as defined by the police and the military (weapons with selective fire), have been banned in the US for many years. Assault weapons as defined by the media really have no definition except that it's any gun they are currently trying to ban.

[ASUPATCH]

Assault weapons, as defined by the police and the military (weapons with selective fire), have been banned in the US for many years. Assault weapons as defined by the media really have no definition except that it's any gun they are currently trying to ban.

What do you think Geoerge W. Bush meant by it. Why did you guys not slam him on this we he got elected.

"It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society."

-George W. Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/24/us/cl ... n-ban.html

Or Reagan

“While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.”

-Ronald Reagan
(1994 letter to congressmen urging them to vote yes on an assualt weapon ban)

[ASUPATCH]

Assault weapons, as defined by the police and the military (weapons with selective fire), have been banned in the US for many years. Assault weapons as defined by the media really have no definition except that it's any gun they are currently trying to ban.

Mariam Websters definition

assault rifle
noun : any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use

[appst89]

Assault weapons, as defined by the police and the military (weapons with selective fire), have been banned in the US for many years. Assault weapons as defined by the media really have no definition except that it's any gun they are currently trying to ban.

What do you think Geoerge W. Bush meant by it. Why did you guys not slam him on this we he got elected.

"It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society."

-George W. Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/24/us/cl ... n-ban.html

Or Reagan

“While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.”

-Ronald Reagan
(1994 letter to congressmen urging them to vote yes on an assualt weapon ban)

Well, I don't remember the discussion being on the MMB then, but I would have if we had been having this discussion.

[appst89]

Assault weapons, as defined by the police and the military (weapons with selective fire), have been banned in the US for many years. Assault weapons as defined by the media really have no definition except that it's any gun they are currently trying to ban.

Mariam Websters definition

assault rifle
noun : any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use

Yeah, I saw that. It's not the military or police definition.

But, they are going to do what they are going to do and nothing any of us thinks about it, pro or con, is going to make one bit of difference.

[ggasu]

That's exactly what I'm saying.
I guess the writers of the Constitution were crazy too...

The writers of the constitution were talking about single shot muskets. Nothing more. To infur that the some of the smartest men in our country's history would have allowed assault type weapons is just silly.

Why would anyone need a gun with more than 7 rounds? I say make all guns illegal except those used for hunting. No assault weapons, no handguns

[appbio91]

If I were a guns, any size and power anyone kind of person I would take this deal the president is offering and run with it. If not you may have a democratic House Senate and President in 2014 and they will propose stuff even I think would be far to liberal.

I agree, one party rule right or left would be very bad for this country. Repubs are going to drive themselves extinct by clinging to guns, gays and abortion politics. It just does not work anymore except in the south and thankfully not so much here anymore.

[AppGrad1]

That's exactly what I'm saying.
I guess the writers of the Constitution were crazy too...

The writers of the constitution were talking about single shot muskets. Nothing more. To infur that the some of the smartest men in our country's history would have allowed assault type weapons is just silly.

Why would anyone need a gun with more than 7 rounds? I say make all guns illegal except those used for hunting. No assault weapons, no handguns

[appbio91]

If the shoe fits....
I hope you are just trying to play the devils advocate or just trying to liven up the debate by saying we should not ban assaualt weapons and high cap magazines because we need them to protect ourselves from the government.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
I guess the writers of the Constitution were crazy too...

No they were brilliant and if they were here today they would recognize that their doccument was dated when it comes to gun ownership. They had no way of knowing what technology would be around 200 years later.

BTW no one is trying to rewrite the constitution. But certain things should not be tolerated in a civilized society. Mowing down people with military style weapons falls into that caregory.

Back to your original post about the NY laws. The most troubling part for me is limiting ownershil by the mentally ill and seizing guns. That my friend is the very slippery slope. I have not read the laws but unless mentally ill is very specifically defined how do you make that determination. Is someone taking an antidepressant for a bout with depression mentally ill? Is some taking lithium for bipolar mentally ill? What if in the past you took an antidepressant? This is a big stinky mess waiting to happen.

[3rd]

its funny how one side of an argument just "knows" that the founding fathers would side with them in this situation, the founding fathers also made a way of changing the constitution to keep up with times...but i guess we forget that as a nation

[biggie]

31 were other which include...
shopping malls - All the ones I know of are GFZ
Restaurants - All that serve Alcohol in NC and many other states are GFZ
government building - Never seen one that wasn't GFZ

[biggie]

2nd Ammendment was written to keep the public as well armed as the military/govt. Its already been watered down quite a bit as true assault weapons and higher are either completely illegal for the public or very hard to get the paperwork to own (along with more taxes on them and the federal govt having all your info and the right to come to your house and inspect them at any time).

[ASUPATCH]

31 were other which include...
shopping malls - All the ones I know of are GFZ
Restaurants - All that serve Alcohol in NC and many other states are GFZ
government building - Never seen one that wasn't GFZ

The arguement is that mass murderers choose gun free zones is faulty. Packed stadiums arent attacked. Yet they are gun free. They are personal vendettas or pshycological issues not choices to go to gun free zones. Nothing, guns included will stop Mass murderers from happening. All we can do is prevent as much damage as we can when it occurs. Adding trained officers to school and limiting access to high cap mag as well as mental health treatments are all steps.

[ASUPATCH]

2nd Ammendment was written to keep the public as well armed as the military/govt. Its already been watered down quite a bit as true assault weapons and higher are either completely illegal for the public or very hard to get the paperwork to own (along with more taxes on them and the federal govt having all your info and the right to come to your house and inspect them at any time).

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

No where does this say be armed as well as the military. But enough to regulate. If you think AR are enough to regulate then you need to look at the difference between an AR and a nuclear weapon. No one is diallowing you to own a gun. Its simply an outdated wording. We only had single shot muskets. We dont maintain legitimate militias. The founding fathers also added in these little things called ammendments. If your a constitution stickler then please tell your wife she can no longer vote and any minority friends you may have. Its what the founding fathers said. Oh wait....thats outdated to.