NY Gov Gun Laws...

[AppGrad1]

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is signing a tough and sweeping new gun control bill into law late Tuesday.

The bill limits magazines to seven bullets; increases penalties for gun crimes; gives the state more power to take away guns from mentally ill people; and bans semi-automatic rifles and handguns that have a "military-style feature," such as a bayonet lug. The ban goes into effect immediately. People who already own such guns are grandfathered in but must register them with the state.

I can see increased penalties for gun crimes and even the part about mentally ill but to limit a magazine to 7 rounds is crazy. Most every semi auto has at least 10.

This has gone too far for a knee jerk reaction IMO...

Thoughts?

[Yosef84]

Most full sized handguns do have a magazine capacity of more than 7. That part of the ban seems pretty ridiculous. The only guns that would be compliant are the small personal carry guns and 1911's (with the old military mag). I'm guessing that compliance with any registrations requirement is going to be low. The identification of the "military-style feature" is just absurd IMO. The part about collecting guns from the mentally ill, will be unenforceable also since record supporting any such classification are strictly controlled and not generally accessible under HIPAA.

Overall, sounds like a bunch of political window dressing to me.

[appst89]

It's all political. It allows politicians to stand up and take credit for doing something. Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the US and there were 532 murders there last year. In comparison, the total number of US troops killed in Afghanistan last year was 310. Crime rates skyrocketed in Australia after they banned guns. Washington, DC, with very strict gun control laws, also has an astronomical murder rate.

Taking away the rights of people who legally own guns is not going to stop the problem. FBI crime reports show that more people were beaten to death with the hands and feet than were killed by rifles, more people were stabbed to death than killed by rifles, more people were bludgeoned to death than killed by rifles and yet rifles are the problem?

Everything Cuomo, et.al. are doing is a cheap political stunt and nothing more.

[asutrnr81]

Crime rates skyrocketed in Australia after they banned guns.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

It is more complex and "skyrocketed" is an interesting term.

[ASUPATCH]

It's all political. It allows politicians to stand up and take credit for doing something. Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the US and there were 532 murders there last year. In comparison, the total number of US troops killed in Afghanistan last year was 310. Crime rates skyrocketed in Australia after they banned guns. Washington, DC, with very strict gun control laws, also has an astronomical murder rate.

Taking away the rights of people who legally own guns is not going to stop the problem. FBI crime reports show that more people were beaten to death with the hands and feet than were killed by rifles, more people were stabbed to death than killed by rifles, more people were bludgeoned to death than killed by rifles and yet rifles are the problem?

Everything Cuomo, et.al. are doing is a cheap political stunt and nothing more.

When was the last time in America you heard of someone going to a public venue and murdering 10,15,20 people at one time with their hands and feet? I must have missed that foxnews report. Although the 7 round mag max is dumb as most homeowners like myself own a semi automatic handgun and most of which(outside of revolvers) carry 8-10 round magazines. I prefer the presidents plan which would allow up to 10 round mags. Scenario for you. I dont know if your one of the bring guns everyone and everyone will be more safe types but this goes out to those folks. Maybe you heard the story of the two nypd cops recently involved in a shooting with a single gunmen. Where 9....count them 9 innocent bystandard were shot and wounded by highly trained police. These arent regular citizens, but officers that were highly trainind and over the course of their careers sent thousands of rounds downrange to quilify for their positions. Now imagine a fight breaks out at a downtwon new years celebration or a 70k capacity football stadium and everyone is allow to carry. Now imagine a shot is fired after an arguement. Then immediatly 10-20 people in a nearby vicinity draw weapons. Which is what I would do in that scenario. What is the officer to do when 10-20 people have weapons drawn and are firing? A law enforcemnt officers job is tough enough as it is without having to make such rash split time decisions.Talk about chaos. Friendly fire anybody? The casuality rate in such a scenario could make Sandy Hook or Aurora look like a joke. Who are you going to shoot? Who is the bad guy?

[kiddbrewer]

It's all political. It allows politicians to stand up and take credit for doing something. Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the US and there were 532 murders there last year. In comparison, the total number of US troops killed in Afghanistan last year was 310. Crime rates skyrocketed in Australia after they banned guns. Washington, DC, with very strict gun control laws, also has an astronomical murder rate.

Taking away the rights of people who legally own guns is not going to stop the problem. FBI crime reports show that more people were beaten to death with the hands and feet than were killed by rifles, more people were stabbed to death than killed by rifles, more people were bludgeoned to death than killed by rifles and yet rifles are the problem?

Everything Cuomo, et.al. are doing is a cheap political stunt and nothing more.

When was the last time in America you heard of someone going to a public venue and murdering 10,15,20 people at one time with their hands and feet? I must have missed that foxnews report. Although the 7 round mag max is dumb as most homeowners like myself own a semi automatic handgun and most of which(outside of revolvers) carry 8-10 round magazines. I prefer the presidents plan which would allow up to 10 round mags. Scenario for you. I dont know if your one of the bring guns everyone and everyone will be more safe types but this goes out to those folks. Maybe you heard the story of the two nypd cops recently involved in a shooting with a single gunmen. Where 9....count them 9 innocent bystandard were shot and wounded by highly trained police. These arent regular citizens, but officers that were highly trainind and over the course of their careers sent thousands of rounds downrange to quilify for their positions. Now imagine a fight breaks out at a downtwon new years celebration or a 70k capacity football stadium and everyone is allow to carry. Now imagine a shot is fired after an arguement. Then immediatly 10-20 people in a nearby vicinity draw weapons. Which is what I would do in that scenario. What is the officer to do when 10-20 people have weapons drawn and are firing? A law enforcemnt officers job is tough enough as it is without having to make such rash split time decisions.Talk about chaos. Friendly fire anybody? The casuality rate in such a scenario could make Sandy Hook or Aurora look like a joke. Who are you going to shoot? Who is the bad guy?

I think about the argument that some pro gun folks threw out there after the theater shooting in Colorado. They argued that if the theater allowed concealed weapons, then there wouldn't have been as many people shot and killed. I thought about that argument for a minute and wondered how many of those in the theater with concealed weapons would've been able to keep a straight head and take out just the shooter and not a dozen other innocent bystanders.

I also think about the story that Giffords talked about recently about her shooting. One of the citizens attending her event picked up the gun that was used to shoot her and others. He apparently picked it up to secure it. Another person, who was not at the event and had a carry and concealed permit, came out with gun drawn and almost shot the person securing the weapon.

I certainly am pro carry and conceal, matter of fact, I am taking the class next month, but having a carry and concealed permit is not the answer. The government needs to restrict what is available and who can get it. As I mentioned before, as a law abiding citizen, I'm not worried about it. They government will not take away my right to defend myself with a gun, they may make it harder for me to get a gun, but I am ok with that.

[BeauFoster]

I have no problem with CC laws, but people need to understand that owning and carrying a weapon should be for personal protection ONLY (non hunting, of course). A good friend and I were talking about the Colorado shooting, and he thought that having a gun with him would have stopped more people from dying. As we talked, he began to realize that opening fire on someone in that situation would have done more harm than good, and eventually conceded that he would likely have not been able to hit the broad side of a barn in a stressful situation like that one.

Shooting a gun at a range and shooting to defend your life are two entirely different situations. Just because you can hit a silhoutte at 10 yards doesn't mean you can hit a target that is moving and firing back. Holster your weapon until you absolutely have to use it to protect yourself. Otherwise, you'll end up killing someone that you didn't mean to kill.

[ASUPATCH]

On assault weapons I will defer to Presidents Reagan and Bush

“While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.”

-Ronald Reagan
(1994 letter to congressmen urging them to vote yes on an assualt weapon ban)

"It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society."

-George W. Bush (1999)
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/24/us/cl ... n-ban.html

[AppGrad1]

Everyone is"assuming" the concealed carry person would kill innocent people? I can show many situations where they did shoot and kill the bad guy.

[biggie]

A lot of the NY laws, like saying that a person with a concealed carry at the CO shooting wouldn't have affected the outcome, are both rediculous to me.

NY now can't have a magazine over 10 rds (no granfathering), and can only have 7 bullets in your 10 rd mag. The law bans many regular guns. There is something in there that if the gun was ever made as a fully automatic version then it is banned. This belief by a lot of people that any semi-auto is easily turned to full auto is idiotic.

[BeauFoster]

Everyone is"assuming" the concealed carry person would kill innocent people? I can show many situations where they did shoot and kill the bad guy.

I don't assume that someone with a CCW will kill an innocent, but in a crowded theater, it's much more likely to happen. Even off-duty police are trained to "be good witnesses" and not to intervene unless they absolutely have to. Pulling a pistol out in a crowded theater, in hope of stopping someone who is already actively firing, is just asking for trouble.

[ASUPATCH]

A lot of the NY laws, like saying that a person with a concealed carry at the CO shooting wouldn't have affected the outcome, are both rediculous to me.

NY now can't have a magazine over 10 rds (no granfathering), and can only have 7 bullets in your 10 rd mag. The law bans many regular guns. There is something in there that if the gun was ever made as a fully automatic version then it is banned. This belief by a lot of people that any semi-auto is easily turned to full auto is idiotic.

I consider myself one of the highly trained as I have completed both a police academy and correctional officer basic training. From 25 yards I can safely hit 95% of the time in the kill zone.(upper torso) When I was put through a live action simulation with (blanks being fired back that % dipped to roughly 10-15% and that was all from 15 yards and in. Hell half of my shots hit the damn dirt and the targets werent moving. I consider myself a far superior shot to the average citizen and can ony image the additional injuries and possible deaths in such a scenario. Unless you have actually been in a firefight you have no idea how bad your aim becomes. Hell I was in a simulated version and shot like total crap.

[AppGrad1]

If I were in that theater I'd rather have a gun to protect myself and family than not having a gun......

If I were in that theater and I didn't have a gun I'd rather you have one beside me than not at all.....

Question to the anti gun people. If you were in that theater and the shooter walked over to your daughter/son and pointed his gun at them and you were just laying there beside them trying to cover them up would you like to have a gun to pull on the guy and shoot him or just lay there and watch him kill your family? What if you were unarmed and the guy hiding behind a chair jumped up and shot the guy right before he stood over your child and pulled the trigger. Tell me, how can you honestly say that you wouldn't like to have a gun in that situation???????????

Thoughts on this NRA video that has been put out?
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/nra- ... itics.html

[AppGrad1]

It's all political. It allows politicians to stand up and take credit for doing something. Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the US and there were 532 murders there last year. In comparison, the total number of US troops killed in Afghanistan last year was 310. Crime rates skyrocketed in Australia after they banned guns. Washington, DC, with very strict gun control laws, also has an astronomical murder rate.

Taking away the rights of people who legally own guns is not going to stop the problem. FBI crime reports show that more people were beaten to death with the hands and feet than were killed by rifles, more people were stabbed to death than killed by rifles, more people were bludgeoned to death than killed by rifles and yet rifles are the problem?

Everything Cuomo, et.al. are doing is a cheap political stunt and nothing more.

I tried to give you 2 rep points but it wouldn't let me...

[ASUPATCH]

[quote="AppGrad1"]If I were in that theater I'd rather have a gun to protect myself and family than not having a gun......

If I were in that theater and I didn't have a gun I'd rather you have one beside me than not at all.....

Question to the anti gun people. If you were in that theater and the shooter walked over to your daughter/son and pointed his gun at them and you were just laying there beside them trying to cover them up would you like to have a gun to pull on the guy and shoot him or just lay there and watch him kill your family? What if you were unarmed and the guy hiding behind a chair jumped up and shot the guy right before he stood over your child and pulled the trigger. Tell me, how can you honestly say that you wouldn't like to have a gun in that situation???????????

Thoughts on this NRA video that has been put out?

First off I am not anti gun. I am a gun owner. I am anti carry wherever you want and high capacity mags. The gun show loophole and private sale loophole are specifically designed to get guns in criminals hands. Firstly off of course you would want to have a gun, but it doesnt nessessarily make you safer. You could actually be putting your family at more risk. You pull a gun and the shooter sees it, who do you think he is going to shoot first? Say your tactically trained to handle such a situation and you get the shot off first and stop him. Then the next guy with a gun stands up sees you and shoots you thinking you were the shooter. (dark theater remember) Cant blame him for killing you. He was just a concearned citizen like you remember.

[AppGrad1]

Concealed Carry Situations where peoples lives may have been saved... There are many more. There is no telling if innocent people would have been shot if a concealed person did not take action. Who knows?

[biggie]

I consider myself one of the highly trained as I have completed both a police academy and correctional officer basic training. From 25 yards I can safely hit 95% of the time in the kill zone.(upper torso) When I was put through a live action simulation with (blanks being fired back that % dipped to roughly 10-15% and that was all from 15 yards and in. Hell half of my shots hit the damn dirt and the targets werent moving. I consider myself a far superior shot to the average citizen and can ony image the additional injuries and possible deaths in such a scenario. Unless you have actually been in a firefight you have no idea how bad your aim becomes. Hell I was in a simulated version and shot like total crap.

Still anyone shooting back at the gunman probably saves lives. Better than laying there just waiting to be shot.

[AppGrad1]

If I were in that theater I'd rather have a gun to protect myself and family than not having a gun......

If I were in that theater and I didn't have a gun I'd rather you have one beside me than not at all.....

Question to the anti gun people. If you were in that theater and the shooter walked over to your daughter/son and pointed his gun at them and you were just laying there beside them trying to cover them up would you like to have a gun to pull on the guy and shoot him or just lay there and watch him kill your family? What if you were unarmed and the guy hiding behind a chair jumped up and shot the guy right before he stood over your child and pulled the trigger. Tell me, how can you honestly say that you wouldn't like to have a gun in that situation???????????

Thoughts on this NRA video that has been put out?

First off I am not anti gun. I am a gun owner. I am anti carry wherever you want and high capacity mags. The gun show loophole and private sale loophole are specifically designed to get guns in criminals hands. Firstly off of course you would want to have a gun, but it doesnt nessessarily make you safer. You could actually be putting your family at more risk. You pull a gun and the shooter sees it, who do you think he is going to shoot first? Say your tactically trained to handle such a situation and you get the shot off first and stop him. Then the next guy with a gun stands up sees you and shoots you thinking you were the shooter. (dark theater remember) Cant blame him for killing you. He was just a concearned citizen like you remember.

Come on, you got to be kidding. This theater guy was wearing a "Batman" outfit with a mask and assault gear. There was NO way someone would not know who he was. He stood at the front of the theater and everyone saw him.
I'm not saying that EVERY concealed carry would NEVER shoot someone innocent. Things happen. I might be taking things to the extreme right but you are taking things to the extreme left.
I'll take my chances and I pray that someone sitting beside me in that theater is carrying also. The odds will be on my side...

[appbio91]

Everyone is"assuming" the concealed carry person would kill innocent people? I can show many situations where they did shoot and kill the bad guy.

More guns is just not the answer in my opinion. I hate to think that my kid needs to be surrounded by guns at school to be safe.

Nothing is going to fix this problem overnight. The toothpaste is out of the tube. But most reasonable people agree assault weapons ban and magazine size restrictions are a start. Keep in mind this will only affect you and I, in other words legal purchases. Criminals will find a way. But over time hopefully a ban would make a difference. After all the aurora and newtown incidents were carried out with legally purchased guns.

[biggie]

The gun show loophole

First thing would be to stop the libs/media incorrect terms and false statements.

One would be the gun show loophole. No such thing. Everyone buying a gun at a gun show has to go through a background check, just if they were guying at a licensed store.

There is not technically a federal check for private long gun sales, person just has to verifiy that buyer is NC resident and ask them if they are allowed to own a gun (there is also a website a seller can run the persons name through to check for felony convictions). Most people I know keep records of who they sold to or even require showing a PPP or CHP for long gun sales. They could change the laws on this, but do criminals follow laws or would they still break laws to get the guns they need?

For private handgun sales a PPP or CHP is required, so a background check is required.