Recruiting, 2013

[bcoach]

Ok sure. 18 year old kids don't care about little things like facilities. Our coaches are so much better than other coaches. I'm sure that's it.

You will do well in Washington. Just ignore what someone says and say what you wanted them to say. That way your argument sounds better. I NEVER said they didn't care about facilities. I am saying it is not the only thing, as you seem to think. Regardless of the facilities the players have to have a connection to the coaches. The coaches have to be doing their jobs on the recruiting trail and visits. You can't just send out postcards with pictures of the place and wait for the phone to ring. " Hey Dad look at this locker room I'm going there". " Well son do you think we should talk to a coach or two?" " No way Dad, who needs coaches, they have stacked stone walls in the locker room".
When I mentioned championships I was refering to the indoor facilities such as the weight room , locker room, training room, lounge etc. It is true that the rest of the stadium improvements came later and that is a good point.
Here is a great example of what I am talking about. Prior to the improvements Wofford had facilities (other than the stands) that made us look horrible. Their training room looked like ours does now. They had practice fields and we did not have our indoor facility yet. Much of their facility was NFL quality and we know why. How were we able to recruit the players that won us three National Championships when their facilities were so much better than ours? It was the coaches. Now I am not going to argue about the quality from one point in time to another but I will say that we have put some outstanding players on the field EVERY year. Do our facilities give us an edge? Sure do. Are they the most important thing? I don't think so. I have been in the Wofford facilities and I have been in ours before and after. If it were facilities that made the difference then Wofford would have won those three Championships.

[AppinVA]

It's neither. It all comes down to the number of hot women on campus.

[AppAttack]

It's neither. It all comes down to the number of hot women on campus.

I'm not so sure about that. Just ask Manti Teo, you can find a girlfriend anywhere.

[B&G]

Take the time to speak with some coaches who recruit against us. They will tell you that they think App has actually been underachieving on the recruiting trail. That is the fault of the coaches. The belief amongst smaller lesser renown FCS schools in the area is that if App wants a kid, then they are going to get him if they are actually interested in going there. Which is why I say when they see App is recruiting someone hard, then they assume they won't be able to beat us. Facilities give us a HUGE advantage.

Think about it. You are a coach for like a Gardner-Webb or WCU.. What are going to be able to say to a kid to choose that school over App? Coaches matter MUCH less than you think in that regard. Ask yourself what is the definition of a good recruiter? This isn't some opinion I've just grabbed out of thin air. I'm telling you what some opposing coaches think. Take it as a compliment about our school. I'm not even sure what this debate is about.

And thank for the compliment that I would do great in Washington. More precisely, I do great regardless of where I am.

[bcoach]

Take the time to speak with some coaches who recruit against us. They will tell you that they think App has actually been underachieving on the recruiting trail. That is the fault of the coaches. The belief amongst smaller lesser renown FCS schools in the area is that if App wants a kid, then they are going to get him if they are actually interested in going there. Which is why I say when they see App is recruiting someone hard, then they assume they won't be able to beat us. Facilities give us a HUGE advantage.

Think about it. You are a coach for like a Gardner-Webb or WCU.. What are going to be able to say to a kid to choose that school over App? Coaches matter MUCH less than you think in that regard. Ask yourself what is the definition of a good recruiter? This isn't some opinion I've just grabbed out of thin air. I'm telling you what some opposing coaches think. Take it as a compliment about our school. I'm not even sure what this debate is about.

And thank for the compliment that I would do great in Washington. More precisely, I do great regardless of where I am.

Well first the only thing that a kid cared about was the facilities and now it's the coaches fault we are underachieving. I think YOU need to ask yourself what makes a good recruiter. It sounds to me like a good recruiter is a guy who goes and sits down with a kids parents and says " you have just got to see our facilities and sign here please". " Well my son is just not sure he clicks with your position coach". OR "could you tell me about your accounting program" to which coach says "What are you stupid? We have an underwater treadmill!!! sign here!!

[Gonzo]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

[Kgfish]

Think you are being generous on your staff ratings.

I started to say poor staff after Wylie & Elliot, but didn't want to start a flame war.

[AppGrad78]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

Gonzo: I could easily add stars to the master list but I'm reluctant to do so because I believe the star system used by Rivals, Scout and ESPN is too full of flaws, particularly at the lower end, to be of any meaningful value to us. For example, a guy like Parker Collins is now up to 14 D-I offers (including this week Southern Miss), his video looks great and he seems to be a high-quality student. In my book he's the embodiment of a first-rate recruit. Yet, he is a zero-star propect in the eyes of all three recruiting sites. Scout rates Taylor Lamb a two-star, which is good, but the site is so far out of date it still lists him as a South Alabama commit. The other sites apparently don't think too highly of Georgia's Gatorade Offensive Player of the Year because he's a zero-star on their sites. Rashaad Townes isn't in the Rivals or Scout database. Most likely that's because he didn't pay to attend one of their combines. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of business model. And even though I'm seduced by stars as much as the next person I'd rather not be a part of it.

[SpeedkingATL]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

Gonzo: I could easily add stars to the master list, but I'm reluctant to do so because I believe the star system used by Rivals, Scout and ESPN is too full of flaws, particularly at the lower end, to be of any meaningful value to us. For example, a guy like Parker Collins is now up to 14 D-I offers (including now Southern Miss), his video looks great and he seems to be a high-quality student. In my book, he's the antithesis of a first-rate recruit. Yet, he is a zero-star propect in the eyes of all three recruiting sites. Scout rates Taylor Lamb a two-star, which is good, but the site is so far out of date it still lists him as a South Alabama commit. The other sites apparently don't think too highly Georgia's Gatorade offensive player of the year. Rashaad Townes isn't in the Rivals or Scout database. Most likely that's because he didn't pay to attend one of their combines. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of business model. And, even though I'm seduced by stars as much as the next person, I'd rather not be a part of it.

You could just do what the guy on Rivals covering UNCC did last year and just out of no where give every recruit at least 2 stars.....that would make everyone feel better and SoCon opponents shake in their boots.

[goapps93]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

Gonzo: I could easily add stars to the master list but I'm reluctant to do so because I believe the star system used by Rivals, Scout and ESPN is too full of flaws, particularly at the lower end, to be of any meaningful value to us. For example, a guy like Parker Collins is now up to 14 D-I offers (including this week Southern Miss), his video looks great and he seems to be a high-quality student. In my book he's the antithesis of a first-rate recruit. Yet, he is a zero-star propect in the eyes of all three recruiting sites. Scout rates Taylor Lamb a two-star, which is good, but the site is so far out of date it still lists him as a South Alabama commit. The other sites apparently don't think too highly of Georgia's Gatorade Offensive Player of the Year because he's a zero-star on their sites. Rashaad Townes isn't in the Rivals or Scout database. Most likely that's because he didn't pay to attend one of their combines. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of business model. And even though I'm seduced by stars as much as the next person I'd rather not be a part of it.

Don't you mean he's the "thesis" of a first rate recruit?

I agree about the star rating system, too flawed and biased to place much credence for lower ranked players.

[B&G]

Take the time to speak with some coaches who recruit against us. They will tell you that they think App has actually been underachieving on the recruiting trail. That is the fault of the coaches. The belief amongst smaller lesser renown FCS schools in the area is that if App wants a kid, then they are going to get him if they are actually interested in going there. Which is why I say when they see App is recruiting someone hard, then they assume they won't be able to beat us. Facilities give us a HUGE advantage.

Think about it. You are a coach for like a Gardner-Webb or WCU.. What are going to be able to say to a kid to choose that school over App? Coaches matter MUCH less than you think in that regard. Ask yourself what is the definition of a good recruiter? This isn't some opinion I've just grabbed out of thin air. I'm telling you what some opposing coaches think. Take it as a compliment about our school. I'm not even sure what this debate is about.

And thank for the compliment that I would do great in Washington. More precisely, I do great regardless of where I am.

Well first the only thing that a kid cared about was the facilities and now it's the coaches fault we are underachieving. I think YOU need to ask yourself what makes a good recruiter. It sounds to me like a good recruiter is a guy who goes and sits down with a kids parents and says " you have just got to see our facilities and sign here please". " Well my son is just not sure he clicks with your position coach". OR "could you tell me about your accounting program" to which coach says "What are you stupid? We have an underwater treadmill!!! sign here!!

We're kind of at an impasse here. Please feel free to talk to some opposing coaches and let me know what they say. I shared the thoughts of a couple guys that have actually recruited against us. You are sharing something else. So you disagree with the coaches I spoke with. That is fine. I disagree with whatever point you are trying to make which is also fine. So I don't have much more to say on the matter. I will make sure to keep these tidbits to myself in the future so as to not ruffle any feathers. Still not exactly sure how I did that. I guess I will go study up on App's accounting program. I would love to know how many recruits our accounting curriculum has brought in lately.

[Gonzo]

I totally agree about stars not necessarily meaning a damn thing about a player and I will never get tired of talking about the great UNCC rivals star flub of 2012. UNCC 's fanbase truley is pathetic.

That being said however, I would rather have starred recruits than non starred recruits. I asked this for the sake of being 100% thorough. I wouldn't want a recruit/other teams fan or anyone for that matter looking through te board's list and assuming we're terrible because we have no stars, even though that would only indicate their own ignorance about the process.

Flawed as it may be, it is one of the only ways of comparing/evaluating the relative strength of a recruiting class.

[bcoach]

Take the time to speak with some coaches who recruit against us. They will tell you that they think App has actually been underachieving on the recruiting trail. That is the fault of the coaches. The belief amongst smaller lesser renown FCS schools in the area is that if App wants a kid, then they are going to get him if they are actually interested in going there. Which is why I say when they see App is recruiting someone hard, then they assume they won't be able to beat us. Facilities give us a HUGE advantage.

Think about it. You are a coach for like a Gardner-Webb or WCU.. What are going to be able to say to a kid to choose that school over App? Coaches matter MUCH less than you think in that regard. Ask yourself what is the definition of a good recruiter? This isn't some opinion I've just grabbed out of thin air. I'm telling you what some opposing coaches think. Take it as a compliment about our school. I'm not even sure what this debate is about.

And thank for the compliment that I would do great in Washington. More precisely, I do great regardless of where I am.

Well first the only thing that a kid cared about was the facilities and now it's the coaches fault we are underachieving. I think YOU need to ask yourself what makes a good recruiter. It sounds to me like a good recruiter is a guy who goes and sits down with a kids parents and says " you have just got to see our facilities and sign here please". " Well my son is just not sure he clicks with your position coach". OR "could you tell me about your accounting program" to which coach says "What are you stupid? We have an underwater treadmill!!! sign here!!

We're kind of at an impasse here. Please feel free to talk to some opposing coaches and let me know what they say. I shared the thoughts of a couple guys that have actually recruited against us. You are sharing something else. So you disagree with the coaches I spoke with. That is fine. I disagree with whatever point you are trying to make which is also fine. So I don't have much more to say on the matter. I will make sure to keep these tidbits to myself in the future so as to not ruffle any feathers. Still not exactly sure how I did that. I guess I will go study up on App's accounting program. I would love to know how many recruits our accounting curriculum has brought in lately.

No ruffled feathers. I think we have both learned something. I know I have and hope you have also. In the coaches that I talk with I just haven't found any that shrink in fear of us. All of them respect us, but would NEVER back off if we were in the mix. They all fight to the end.
Not sure about the accounting program but academics have had a lot to do with many of our athletes. I am not sure why you think so little of our student athletes and our coaches but to each his own.
We can continue to disagree and that is ok. You think that it is all about bricks and mortar. I think that is only part of it. It is an important part but only a part. I think that most of our athletes have a little more depth. I think they also look at the people they will be working with for 4-5 years. I would guess that the attitudes of coaches have a lot to do with the success a school has in recruiting and on the field. I guess that the ones that give up are the ones that don’t win conference titles year after year. I guess the ones that don’t give up produce winning programs that can then afford to build the fantastic facilities we have today. I would guess that we did it in the right order. At least it was the one that worked for us. I would guess that with all the warts and flaws we like to think so many of our coaches have had over the years, we can still say that as a whole they never gave up. We have one hell of a record to be proud of and our best days may just still be ahead of us. I am glad we have now, and have had in the past the coaches that have been part of this organization. I am even happier that the ones that give up are somewhere else.
It sounds like we both love ASU so let's just watch the board and enjoy the great recruits we are getting for what ever reason that may be.

[AppGrad78]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

Gonzo: I could easily add stars to the master list but I'm reluctant to do so because I believe the star system used by Rivals, Scout and ESPN is too full of flaws, particularly at the lower end, to be of any meaningful value to us. For example, a guy like Parker Collins is now up to 14 D-I offers (including this week Southern Miss), his video looks great and he seems to be a high-quality student. In my book he's the antithesis of a first-rate recruit. Yet, he is a zero-star propect in the eyes of all three recruiting sites. Scout rates Taylor Lamb a two-star, which is good, but the site is so far out of date it still lists him as a South Alabama commit. The other sites apparently don't think too highly of Georgia's Gatorade Offensive Player of the Year because he's a zero-star on their sites. Rashaad Townes isn't in the Rivals or Scout database. Most likely that's because he didn't pay to attend one of their combines. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of business model. And even though I'm seduced by stars as much as the next person I'd rather not be a part of it.

Don't you mean he's the "thesis" of a first rate recruit?

Thanks, 93. Fixed it.

[Gonzo]

78,
Is there any way Rivals *s can be added to the next full recruit list update on MMB? Thanks! and thanks for going to all this trouble in the first place.

Gonzo: I could easily add stars to the master list but I'm reluctant to do so because I believe the star system used by Rivals, Scout and ESPN is too full of flaws, particularly at the lower end, to be of any meaningful value to us. For example, a guy like Parker Collins is now up to 14 D-I offers (including this week Southern Miss), his video looks great and he seems to be a high-quality student. In my book he's the antithesis of a first-rate recruit. Yet, he is a zero-star propect in the eyes of all three recruiting sites. Scout rates Taylor Lamb a two-star, which is good, but the site is so far out of date it still lists him as a South Alabama commit. The other sites apparently don't think too highly of Georgia's Gatorade Offensive Player of the Year because he's a zero-star on their sites. Rashaad Townes isn't in the Rivals or Scout database. Most likely that's because he didn't pay to attend one of their combines. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of business model. And even though I'm seduced by stars as much as the next person I'd rather not be a part of it.

Don't you mean he's the "thesis" of a first rate recruit?

Thanks, 93. Fixed it.

So is that a negative to my request?

[AppGrad78]

If you insist. But it might take me a while. I'll try get to it later tonight.

[eggers76]

'78 do we have any visits up on the mountain this weekend?

[AppGrad78]

'78 do we have any visits up on the mountain this weekend?

Taylor Lamb and Beau Nunn are here, and I've got a feeling Rashaad Townes is here, too. But I don't know of any non-committed prospects. Parker Collins is at Youngstown State. Deondre Singleton is at Duke. Tshumbi Johnson is at Cincinnati. David Gaydosz is at Akron. It's possible Zach Riggs moved his Feb. 1 visit to Boone to this weekend (he was hoping to), but I haven't heard if he did. I'm guessing our Rivals site has more details. Firemoose might have more details after he talks with his sister.

[ASU_MBA]

I am all for getting players that are rated but we have to be real, "Stars" are such a waste of time and only stroke the ego of fans. Look at our past experience with Rival "Star" players. I am a rivals member but I still think the whole "star" system is somewhat bogus. Look below at how well we have done with "stars"

PER RIVALS:

2007 Signing Class
DJ Smith - no stars
Mark LeGree - no stars
Brian Quick - no stars
Ben Jorden - no stars
Orry Frye - no stars
Jabari Fletcher - no stars
No rated players in class

2008 Signing Class
Ingram Bell - 3 Stars - bust because of injuries, etc.
Malcom Bennet - 3 Stars - solid player but not 3 star caliber, don't think he made 1st team all conference
Rod Chisholm - 2 Stars - Mr. "wait until next year" Never lived up to the hype. Great person, bust as a player
Ed Gainey - 2 Stars - not my favorite player, close to being in jail. All Conference but got burned more than not.
Just Lloyd - 2 Stars - good kid, never really made an impact
Jordan Gary - 2 Stars - left the team, ton of potential but never lived up to it.
Sam Martin - no stars - we know the story probably NFL bound.
Lanston Tanyi - no stars - great player, off field issues and injuries but was an impact player when he played. Was an impact player as CSU
Deandre Presley - no stars - we know the story been in several NFL camps. 2nd in Walter Payton voting.

2009 Signing Class
Travaris Cadet - 2 Stars - NFL player, good career at App
Jamal Jackson - 2 Stars - solid player, one of the best FCS QBs in the country
Troy Sanders - 3 Star - solid player and iron man.
Quin Thornton - 2 Star - never qualified in the classroom
Justin Wray - 2 Stars - had great potential, bad things off the field. Kicked off team
Andrew Peacock - No Stars - the Chancellor
Tony Washington - No Stars - solid playermaker
Demetrius McCray - No stars - NFL combine invite
Jeremy Kimbrough - No Stars - one of the best LBs to play at App. Should have nice NFL career, 2nd in Buck B. award voting.
Brandon Grier - No Stars - No stars - solid underrated LB. Will be missed next year.

2010 Signing Class
Trevor Sawyer - 2 Stars - never opened a book, off the team
Derrick Shuemake - 3 Stars - not sure what the hell happened, dude never performed or saw the field.
Dan Wylie - 3 Stars- solid player, was missed this season
Antoni Danzy - 3 Stars - never made it to App
Dylan Bostick - 2 Stars - pissed in Bob McClain's corn flakes. Could have been good...who knows
Drew Bailey - 2 Stars - had a solid year last year, made some clutch catches.
Graham Fisher - 2 stars - leader on and off the field will be a solid OL player for us.
Kendall Lamm - no stars - starter, might be good, needs to stay off Twitter
This was not a very good recruiting class overall.

2011 Signing Class - persons to note
Sean Price - no stars - pretty damn good so far.
Steven Miller - no stars - will be missed
Ronald Blair - no stars - solid freshman year bit of Soph slump.


Stars are not all they seem and more times then not the "no stars" turn out to be the real stars.

We have had our share of busts especially the 3 star guys.

[eggers76]

Thanks for the update.