Track teams

[Stonewall]

Not really competitive at this level....

[apptrackalum]

It's hard to be without a track and field facility, after the negative PR of cutting the men's indoor track and field program and having half the NCAA allowed scholarships. The Sun Belt is stronger than the SoCon, but the deck is stacked against this program with the decisions of the administration. Should they be better still, maybe? But the track and field programs decline is due to the administration not funding the program. We have quality coaches who have won before. I hope the university decides to fund this program that was once one of the top programs in the Southeast.

[NewApp]

Not really competitive at this level....

Wonder how our football program would perform without a football field or stadium or our basketball program without a gym for that matter

We once had Olympic level tracksters.

[Rekdiver]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

[NewApp]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

Same place women's programs come from. Does baseball support itself? Asking for me, not a friend.

Has our men's basketball program supported itself all the years we have been in the SBC?

[Rekdiver]

So funds are limited....

[NewApp]

So funds are limited....

Evidently not limited enough to not fund Baseball which is not a money maker yet we afforded the NEZ construction somehow. Point is, one of the reasons that Track is not competitive is we don't have a track.

Track removal helped the aesthetics, that's all. Now we don't have a track although most high schools do. So we don't look high schoolish anymore. We can't afford a track or men's soccer.. Geez.

[BambooRdApp]

I can understand the disappointment that every sport is not funded equally per capita of the number of participants. However, football is the nearest to a "money making" sport that App has. So, yes, the NEZ and whatever other projects around football that are considered a "necessity" will be funded..and yes, NEZ is a necessity long term for recruiting and other reasons....traditionally for most schools, basketball would be first or second (football and basketball may flip 1 or 2 depending on program) and baseball would be third for men's sports. This is a general observation. As such, baseball is going to get priority to some degree over other sports. Just my opinion..

[T-Dog]

It's a failure of athletics to not have a home track and field facility for multiple years. But hey, at least certain gonzos get to brag about no longer having a track around the football field. Also having more parking for the athletics center while not having enough outdoor tennis courts to hold 6 matches at once looks bush league.

Track and field could be a revenue sport by hosting meets and camps, but that would require shovels in the App 105 property ground. Hard to tell a program to pull itself up by its bootstraps when they don't have bootstraps.

I know its different pots of money and for different reasons, but the optics of cutting 3 programs to make up some of what was claimed to be a $5M shortfall while having the NEZ complex go $5M over budget were horrible.

And before anyone says "This is why you should donate to the Yosef Club/MAF," I don't think any amount of donations would have saved those three programs and that the pandemic shortfall was a smokescreen for other reasons.

That's enough ranting for one evening.

[hapapp]

The first priority should have been facilities for the displaced. Hard to get a sense that there's a commitment to overall athletic program when teams go without a place to call home. I'm not anti-NEZ but it's sad that that facility is almost complete and no ground has been broken on the 105 project.

[Bootsy]

The NEZ is still a headscratcher for me. It's hard to imagine the completed facility and see $50 Million worth of value there. And yes, it's a bone in the craw considering how much work is still needed at KBS and elsewhere to bring our athletic facilities up to standard.

OTOH, I am optimistic we'll see work on the 105 facility begin later this year. Way past due.

[bigdaddyg]

The optics will get worse when we have one of our 6 (hopefully 7) home games and there are 18,000 people in attendance with half of the NEZ filled. I’m a big ROI guy. Other than a “nicer look” how much $ will a full NEZ bring in each season? If people move to those seats and the ones they vacated go unfilled that damages the ROI. Hopefully we pull a UAB so to speak and revive those cut sports. On a separate note how many outdoor track meets do we generally host and how are they attended in a normal year?

[appgrouch]

The optics will get worse when we have one of our 6 (hopefully 7) home games and there are 18,000 people in attendance with half of the NEZ filled. I’m a big ROI guy. Other than a “nicer look” how much $ will a full NEZ bring in each season? If people move to those seats and the ones they vacated go unfilled that damages the ROI. Hopefully we pull a UAB so to speak and revive those cut sports. On a separate note how many outdoor track meets do we generally host and how are they attended in a normal year?

The thing about track meets are they are reverse of other sports. Teams pay entry fees to compete in most meets so not having a track is a major missing revenue source. They have in the past had 10 teams easily for meets and hosted a HS meet with 10-15 at times.

[apptrackalum]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

It comes from student fees. $22 million (or nearly 60%) of App's athletic budget for all sports comes from students; not donors, corporate partners, or ticket sales.

[AppStateNews]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

It comes from student fees. $22 million (or nearly 60%) of App's athletic budget for all sports comes from students; not donors, corporate partners, or ticket sales.

Are you proposing we increase student fees? Because even with those fees, we didn't have enough to support the department.

Simple put, if we were able to generate more Yosef Club donations, we can afford more.

That said, I do agree with Tdog -- this is way more than more donations. We could not support as many sports as we were. Not many schools could afford what we were supporting. The writing was on the wall years ago we would have to get rid of some programs. The reason mens indoor was cut over others is because it had less impact on the student athletes. Those SAs still have scholarships for outdoor. It was simply cutting the operational cost. It was done with the intention of minimizing impact to the student athletes.

[apptrackalum]

Are you proposing we increase student fees? Because even with those fees, we didn't have enough to support the department.

Simple put, if we were able to generate more Yosef Club donations, we can afford more.

That said, I do agree with Tdog -- this is way more than more donations. We could not support as many sports as we were. Not many schools could afford what we were supporting. The writing was on the wall years ago we would have to get rid of some programs. The reason mens indoor was cut over others is because it had less impact on the student athletes. Those SAs still have scholarships for outdoor. It was simply cutting the operational cost. It was done with the intention of minimizing impact to the student athletes.

Fair question. But I would not assume App needs to raise student fees to support track and field at a Sun Belt level. The shortfalls year to year are not incredible numbers. The combined men's and women's track and field and cross country operational budgets are $286,000 (before the men's indoor team was cut). That is 25% less per roster spot than the next lowest funded program at App. It's almost $35,000 per roster spot lower than men's basketball, and less than half of golf. Get track and field to equal with the next lowest App sport per roster spot and it would be a difference maker. Basically, just treat track and field like the rest of App sports, and the team should be successful.

The cost of the new facility is a little more challenging. My view all along is that the track was removed for football. So football donors and resources should have paid for the new facility before the NEZ was built. I loved running in Kid Brewer. I saw it for the first time at a track meet in the 8th grade, and of course, loved competing on it as an athlete. But I get why it needed to move, just not how it has happened. It will take years for the track and field program to rebound from the loss of a facility and program cut all at the same time. Recruiting will be hard.

The entire operational budget for track and field / cross country before the program cut was only 40% of the salary of our athletic director before we cut indoor. The athletic director's salary is less of an issue than how App (and most mid-majors) has bloated its number of administrators and support staff. Scholarships demands have not increased over the years, but costs have. So where is that money going... administration (and building contractors).

To your point about the men's indoor track and field cut, this was not budget. The cost of that program was about $45,000. For every sport App carries, the NCAA gives App $38,000. So App doesn't get that $38,000 anymore, and thus only saves $7,000. The cut was to help Title IX concerns, with the path of least resistance as you pointed out. But we were told it was about the pandemic. The truth hurts, but lying to us hurt worse. If it had to happen, they could have been honest.

We all need to give what we can, and I do (low four figures), but App can do better by its athletes with what it has.

[bcoach]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

It comes from student fees. $22 million (or nearly 60%) of App's athletic budget for all sports comes from students; not donors, corporate partners, or ticket sales.

That is so very true, and it is a shame. We want, we want, we want, but we just are not willing to pay. Tickets are a flat out bargain, as is Yosef Club membership. We are not in a position or location to draw healthy corporate money. Just plain and simple we have champagne taste and a beer budget. Understandable? Yes. Sustainable? Doesn't look like it. My humble opinion is that track should not have been removed before a new one was built. What we have done to the track program looks a lot worse than the track ever did.

[asumba95]

having TWO midweek home games (again) this year will not help increase attendance/revenues. I know we have to bow down to the conference TV schedule, but having both Marshall and Coastal (especially) as Saturday contests would have been automatic sellouts.

[NewApp]

So where does the revenue come from to support non revenue sports?

It comes from student fees. $22 million (or nearly 60%) of App's athletic budget for all sports comes from students; not donors, corporate partners, or ticket sales.

That is so very true, and it is a shame. We want, we want, we want, but we just are not willing to pay. Tickets are a flat out bargain, as is Yosef Club membership. We are not in a position or location to draw healthy corporate money. Just plain and simple we have champagne taste and a beer budget. Understandable? Yes. Sustainable? Doesn't look like it. My humble opinion is that track should not have been removed before a new one was built. What we have done to the track program looks a lot worse than the track ever did.

bcoach, glad to see someone else voice that sentiment. I was mortally crucified for posting similarly.

[bigdaddyg]

Most people on this board were all for removing the track so that we didn’t look high schoolish. I love the look. I ask this question because I really have no idea what is involved but would it have been possible to simply cover the track in temporary turf then roll it up for meets? Again, I know zip about this stuff but I’m just thinking out loud.