Let's talk about Clark

[311neers]

It’s interesting seeing these discussions for the last few months and thoughts coming from two camps. One thinks it’s the players fault for not executing and the other thinks it’s the coaching staff.

The problem now though is, they are all his players (95%). So that’s on coach. Can’t blame anyone else now.

[Saint3333]

Players not executing ultimately comes down to coaching.

Attention to detail is a top down driven attribute.

Hiring the staff.

Recruiting the players.

Developing the players.

Developing the gameplan.

Executing the gameplan.

This is how every job works to some extent.

[appstate24]

If Clark is fired, it will suck. Because it's an admission of failure. There's no celebration in that. Even when App fired Capel, Jones and Fox, it didn't feel good in the end. It's sad and depressing, even if it's the right thing to do.

Just keep that in mind. No need for celebrations.

100% Agree. Terrible situation. Lots of families involved.

GO APPS!!

I would honestly and truly love for my dad to get fired from his job and paid $1 million on December 1st. Like, that would be the best thing that ever happened to my family.

Pretty douchey comment. It won’t be just Clark’s family that has the head of the house losing their job.

I understand there are some wives and kids who are going to have to uproot their lives if there is a major coaching change, but that’s life sometimes. It’s happened to me, and probably a lot of people on this board. You handle it, learn from it, and do better next time.

I agree with you. It’s just a sucky situation, especially since Shawn is one of our own.

[njcarr]

Interesting posts!!!!

[LKN_Lawyer]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

[LKN_Lawyer]

100% Agree. Terrible situation. Lots of families involved.

GO APPS!!

I would honestly and truly love for my dad to get fired from his job and paid $1 million on December 1st. Like, that would be the best thing that ever happened to my family.

Pretty douchey comment. It won’t be just Clark’s family that has the head of the house losing their job.

I understand there are some wives and kids who are going to have to uproot their lives if there is a major coaching change, but that’s life sometimes. It’s happened to me, and probably a lot of people on this board. You handle it, learn from it, and do better next time.

I agree with you. It’s just a sucky situation, especially since Shawn is one of our own.

It’s a business…doesn’t matter that he is one of our own. Wouldn’t matter if he was the clone of Jerry Moore, Armanti Edwards, John Settle, and Larry Hand all combined into one. At the end of the day - it’s a binary. You either perform or you don’t.

[appstate24]

I would honestly and truly love for my dad to get fired from his job and paid $1 million on December 1st. Like, that would be the best thing that ever happened to my family.

Pretty douchey comment. It won’t be just Clark’s family that has the head of the house losing their job.

I understand there are some wives and kids who are going to have to uproot their lives if there is a major coaching change, but that’s life sometimes. It’s happened to me, and probably a lot of people on this board. You handle it, learn from it, and do better next time.

I agree with you. It’s just a sucky situation, especially since Shawn is one of our own.

It’s a business…doesn’t matter that he is one of our own. Wouldn’t matter if he was the clone of Jerry Moore, Armanti Edwards, John Settle, and Larry Hand all combined into one. At the end of the day - it’s a binary. You either perform or you don’t.

Again….I AGREE. Just saying it sucks for the program, sucks for the players, sucks for the coaches and their families.

[Bigdaddyg1]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

One huge caveat to the list. Generally speaking those schools have virtually endless resources, can hire and fire, pay huge buyouts and not blink an eye. As for the Ga Southern example they went 6-7 last year. Let's see a trend. This was probably a silly question as Saint said because those who believe that we are this juggernaut won't be swayed by counter arguments. When Drink left exactly how much money did we have available for a great hire and staff?

[AppDub]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

Maybe Dabo wants to come up the mountain tain for a fresh start.

[Saint3333]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

One huge caveat to the list. Generally speaking those schools have virtually endless resources, can hire and fire, pay huge buyouts and not blink an eye. As for the Ga Southern example they went 6-7 last year. Let's see a trend. This was probably a silly question as Saint said because those who believe that we are this juggernaut won't be swayed by counter arguments. When Drink left exactly how much money did we have available for a great hire and staff?

Perhaps it’s a silly question because the answer is obvious to everyone it happens all the time.

Now the conversation pivots to we don’t have enough resources, yet we are arguably 10th at best in a conference with programs that have similar or less resources than we do.

The excuses of why we can’t do it at Appalachian died when Laney was canned. We aren’t going back to that mentality.

[Yosefus]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

Can anyone imagine not beating the Stink for as many years as Michigan lost to Ohio State? Michigan went thru several coaches after the AllTime curse and about 15 years of mediocre seasons to their standards at least

[Yosef10]

Players not executing ultimately comes down to coaching.

Attention to detail is a top down driven attribute.

Hiring the staff.

Recruiting the players.

Developing the players.

Developing the gameplan.

Executing the gameplan.

This is how every job works to some extent.

You mention the hiring of staff, and that’s kinda where I’ve started to believe the shortcomings are with there being crucial mistakes across position groups each and every week.

Shawn had never even been a coordinator, his Rolodex of guys was always going to be limited. Looking back at the 2019 staff - Garrett Riley, Greg Gas, DJ Smith, Roof, Ken Dorsey accepted a job, Charlie Harbison. With now having the benefit of hindsight, that’s a pretty impressive staff. Unfortunately for Shawn, he just doesn’t have those contacts.

[appgrad95&97]

Players not executing ultimately comes down to coaching.

Attention to detail is a top down driven attribute.

Hiring the staff.

Recruiting the players.

Developing the players.

Developing the gameplan.

Executing the gameplan.

This is how every job works to some extent.

You mention the hiring of staff, and that’s kinda where I’ve started to believe the shortcomings are with there being crucial mistakes across position groups each and every week.

Shawn had never even been a coordinator, his Rolodex of guys was always going to be limited. Looking back at the 2019 staff - Garrett Riley, Greg Gas, DJ Smith, Roof, Ken Dorsey accepted a job, Charlie Harbison. With now having the benefit of hindsight, that’s a pretty impressive staff. Unfortunately for Shawn, he just doesn’t have those contacts.

A post in made 12/12/19:

I have no idea if he can put a staff together. I have no idea if he can manage a staff. I don't know if he can run an offense. I don't know what an O-line coach knows about defense. I think these are legitimate questions.

[AppStateMtneer]

Agreed. It’s his players and it’s his surrounding staff. The coaches may not be the ones on the field making the mental mistakes, lining up incorrectly, hitting the wrong gap, missing the tackle, fumbling the ball… But they were the ones that were responsible for that player being on the roster in the first place. Clark chose these coaches. These coaches recruited those players. Those were Clark’s decisions. This is Clark’s team.

We wanted a coach that would provide stability to our program. After the revolving door with the coaching staff, we wanted him to provide stability for our players. I’m not sure if Clark was a lazy higher by our AD. At the time, I thought it was a good hire and the choice we needed. Clark definitely has the passion and I know he wants things to succeed but unfortunately he doesn’t know how to do it. If App State continues having a revolving door of coaches that are just using us as that steppingstone in order to move onto the next level and make more money for themselves then so be it… that would mean that we are winning.

We have become way too predictable. It was evident that Clark was coaching for his job last night. We benefited on risky fourth down calls that panned out in the first half. Two of those fourth downs should have resulted in field-goal attempts and a higher percentage of guaranteed points. The gambles paid off and kept us in the game, but just because it worked doesn’t make it the right decision.
If a coach on the opposing team would take the 5 yard dump pass to the outside each play, they would score on every drive. I have no explanation on why we line our defensive backs 10 to 15 yards off of the line of scrimmage consistently… are they just that bad? And again, if that is the case, that is the coaches fault.

The NIL and transfer portal have changed, and in my opinion, ruined college football. That being said, it provides the opportunity for a team with a new coaching staff, to more quickly choose the players that fit their scheme and fill a roster with who they want on the field. It should not take a new coach and his staff multiple years to have “their” players like it did in the past.

[t4pizza]

Clark could probably use that buyout.

He will probably just fade away and be a career position coach in FCS at this point.

Odd take considering he hasn't been a coach in FCS since 2009. The guy is a proven OL coach on the FBS level. Whatever you think of him as a head coach, can't deny he is a respected FBS OL coach. This was just a petty jab that is unsupported by the realities of the world.

[t4pizza]

Do our coordinators have buyouts?

Yes our OC and DC both signed 2 year deals this past off season so each would have to be bought out.

[bigapp]

anyone put out an APB for the staff writer and his alt account yet?

[Yosef10]

Players not executing ultimately comes down to coaching.

Attention to detail is a top down driven attribute.

Hiring the staff.

Recruiting the players.

Developing the players.

Developing the gameplan.

Executing the gameplan.

This is how every job works to some extent.

You mention the hiring of staff, and that’s kinda where I’ve started to believe the shortcomings are with there being crucial mistakes across position groups each and every week.

Shawn had never even been a coordinator, his Rolodex of guys was always going to be limited. Looking back at the 2019 staff - Garrett Riley, Greg Gas, DJ Smith, Roof, Ken Dorsey accepted a job, Charlie Harbison. With now having the benefit of hindsight, that’s a pretty impressive staff. Unfortunately for Shawn, he just doesn’t have those contacts.

A post in made 12/12/19:

I have no idea if he can put a staff together. I have no idea if he can manage a staff. I don't know if he can run an offense. I don't know what an O-line coach knows about defense. I think these are legitimate questions.

If you’ve never been a play caller and get hired as head coach, as you mentioned, gotta be elite at hiring and managing people. I also think he boxed himself into hires with the whole “App State Offense” and “App State Defense” thing.

Look, I get that App had a bunch of success with both the offensive and defensive schemes over the years, but I’m hard pressed to find a program who has been basically running the exact same schemes on both sides of the ball for nearly a decade now. I honestly think it’s malpractice that App is. It’s time to give opponents new looks and get some fresh blood in the program.

[t4pizza]

Not a genius, but sure:

Alabama
Michigan

Pretty much any historic program that had a dip, made a change and came out stronger.

Neither one of those programs hit on their first choices of coaches. Yes, they eventually figured it out but there we a lot of coaches between the Bear and Coach Stalling's 1992 National Championship Team at Bama and then Coach Saban's success. It isn't like it went Bear, Stallings, Saban. And Michigan had a couple coaches after we got Carr fired. Hell, many at Michigan wanted to get rid of Harbaugh after the Covid season, he took a major pay cut to keep the job but many alums still wanted him gone. I bet every one of them is happy the AD didn't fire him when they wanted him fired. He was allowed the time to fix it. Now admittedly Harbaugh had a significant successful coaching history and Clark doesn't but the point remains the same, he was given some extra time even though many wanted him gone.

[MrCraig]

One of you geniuses please provide a few realistic examples of college football teams who were really good, went through massive coaching changes, dipped in performance then fired the head coach, hired yet another one then returned to the perceived prior level. I'll wait for examples and the long list.

Clemson- when was this?
Michigan- how badly did they dip?
LSU
UCF
Notre Dame- same as Michigan above
Florida State- I'll give you this one
Kansas State- were they really good?

As to Clemson…they won a National championship in 1981 under Danny Ford and were typically a top 10 team. He left and then they were the definition of mediocrity for most of the 90s and 2000s until Dabo arrived. Hell, the term Clemsoning was made because of that period of time. Now Dabo is facing his own period of self reflection

One huge caveat to the list. Generally speaking those schools have virtually endless resources, can hire and fire, pay huge buyouts and not blink an eye. As for the Ga Southern example they went 6-7 last year. Let's see a trend. This was probably a silly question as Saint said because those who believe that we are this juggernaut won't be swayed by counter arguments. When Drink left exactly how much money did we have available for a great hire and staff?

Stink went 3-9, 6-7, now are 5-2. They only have to win one more to tie last year, and they’ve got App on the schedule. Plus, they’ve been winning by larger margins than last year. I know most of us don’t like to watch GA Southern football, but they are a lot better than last year when they were a lot better than the year before.