Comments from new SGA President

[Gonzo]

My son is at Clemson and pays $0 in athletic fees. However the total fees and tuition are $6,900 a semester for in state.The $3,200 at App is a bargain, so maybe they should lower the athletic fee and raise tuition.

I thought this was interesting so I did a quick Google.

Clemson in-state tuition and fees - $13,446
App State in-state tuition and fees - $6,553

We hear the same complaining at Charlotte. It always amuses me when a 20 year old waves his iPhone at me, while wearing a North Face down parka and $125 Nikes, with a Mac Book Air on the table next to his third $6 latte of the day, and tells me things cost too much.

And hopefully he doesn't spill his Starbucks on himself as he's ranting about corporations being evil.

[HeffnerIV]

My son is at Clemson and pays $0 in athletic fees. However the total fees and tuition are $6,900 a semester for in state.The $3,200 at App is a bargain, so maybe they should lower the athletic fee and raise tuition.

I thought this was interesting so I did a quick Google.

Clemson in-state tuition and fees - $13,446
App State in-state tuition and fees - $6,553

We hear the same complaining at Charlotte. It always amuses me when a 20 year old waves his iPhone at me, while wearing a North Face down parka and $125 Nikes, with a Mac Book Air on the table next to his third $6 latte of the day, and tells me things cost too much.

And hopefully he doesn't spill his Starbucks on himself as he's ranting about corporations being evil.

'Merica


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bcoach]

College freshmen are 18 years old.

This is about means, not about age. Sure in the real world people pay for benefits they don't use. But they also (theoretically at least) pay somewhat according to their means. Not so much the case here.

The complaint doesn't seem to be about lack of funds so much as not wanting to pay for something they don't utilize which is why I made the comments I did. Plus, lets not forget they all knew the costs associated with attending App when they agreed to enroll. There are options out there without these fees.

If they need some extra cash nobody is stopping them from getting a PT job, or cutting back spending in other areas to pay for school. I worked 20-30 hours a week while in school to help pay for housing and food costs, and many other have done the same.

and equally the fans could cut back in other ways to pay for their entertainment. That is my main objection. Regardless of whether the fees are just or not the fans are not pulling their weight. We want to move up, we want expansion, we want new track facilities so we can get rid of the track around the field but we don't want to pay for it. The student can get a part time job to pay for it but the adult with a full time job does not? People can keep trying to justify what is going on but it is just plain wrong. The fan base is not supporting the program plain and simple. We kept asking for things and we got them. The administration kept their end of the bargain and the fan base for the MOST part did not. The student are holding up their end and the fan base is not. No amount of trying to justify it is going to change it. The students knew the cost to attend, and that is granted and they paid the full bill. The fan base also knew the cost of the program and they didn't pay the full bill. I am sorry to keep harping on this but somebody just has to be up front about this and say it like it is. We like to say we support our program like nobody else, when in fact the real truth is that we travel well. There is a difference. Every single seat in that stadium should be filled with someone who gives at least the $15 a month that was mentioned earlier. After that is accomplished should be the next time any expansion or track removal is mentioned. Sorry for another rant and it is not directed just at you. We just need to be adults and be responsible for our own entertainment.

[appbio91]

Athletic fees are by a wide margin the largest addition to in state tuition cost. Oh and the $378 or whatever it was does not include another $124 for athletic facilities debt and we know where the lions share of that debt is. That's about 13% of total tuition. Cultural affairs which would include LGBT stuff that was sarcastically thrown out is $21 per sem just for comparison. All added fees are about 44% of tuition. So again it is not trivial and the fans of our great program are not pulling the wagon. We are riding it while the students pull. I wish we had the problem of a student lottery for tickets as that would mean there was demand. In reality if we did not have our stadium 1/3 filled with students it would be a sad situation. As I have said many times THANKS TO OUR GREAT STUDENT FAN BASE (many of you may not know but the game has 4 qtrs [emoji12])


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3rd]

Athletic fess are by a wide margin the largest addition to in state tuition cost. Oh and the $378 or whatever it was does not include another $124 for athletic facilities debt and we know where the lions share of that debt is. That's about 13% of total tuition. Cultural affairs which would include LGBT stuff that was sarcastically thrown out is $21 per sem just for comparison. All added fees are about 44% of tuition. So again it is not trivial and the fans of our great program are not pulling the wagon. We are riding it while the students pull. I wish we had the problem of a student lottery for tickets as that would mean there was demand. In reality if we did not have our stadium 1/3 filled with students it would be a sad situation. As I have said many times THANKS TO OUR GREAT STUDENT FAN BASE (many of you may not know but the game has 4 qtrs [emoji12])


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cultural affairs is a few rooms inside the student union. Athletics fees go to many students/facilities as well as ALL CLUBS who use those facilities. I would bet if we looked at percentages fees for athletics compared to cultural affairs while a higher money amount MAY have a lower % as far as money payed to how many students use this money/facilities. These fees were going to go up if we had moved up or not, that is just reality of anything government related. What I feel is getting lost in this discussion is how overall affordable App is with the education one receives here compared to peer schools. Would it be great if more alums gave money? Of course everyone agrees here about that, if anyone has that solution please tell. But these are the same students that wanted their parking spots on 2 Thursday evenings. If we want look at that break down in who pays more for these parking spots by percentages I will be glad to give you those numbers.

Sorry maybe it is just the math major in me but when I see stats used I roll my eyes b/c as they say there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[NewApp]

College freshmen are 18 years old.

This is about means, not about age. Sure in the real world people pay for benefits they don't use. But they also (theoretically at least) pay somewhat according to their means. Not so much the case here.

The complaint doesn't seem to be about lack of funds so much as not wanting to pay for something they don't utilize which is why I made the comments I did. Plus, lets not forget they all knew the costs associated with attending App when they agreed to enroll. There are options out there without these fees.

If they need some extra cash nobody is stopping them from getting a PT job, or cutting back spending in other areas to pay for school. I worked 20-30 hours a week while in school to help pay for housing and food costs, and many other have done the same.

and equally the fans could cut back in other ways to pay for their entertainment. That is my main objection. Regardless of whether the fees are just or not the fans are not pulling their weight. We want to move up, we want expansion, we want new track facilities so we can get rid of the track around the field but we don't want to pay for it. The student can get a part time job to pay for it but the adult with a full time job does not? People can keep trying to justify what is going on but it is just plain wrong. The fan base is not supporting the program plain and simple. We kept asking for things and we got them. The administration kept their end of the bargain and the fan base for the MOST part did not. The student are holding up their end and the fan base is not. No amount of trying to justify it is going to change it. The students knew the cost to attend, and that is granted and they paid the full bill. The fan base also knew the cost of the program and they didn't pay the full bill. I am sorry to keep harping on this but somebody just has to be up front about this and say it like it is. We like to say we support our program like nobody else, when in fact the real truth is that we travel well. There is a difference. Every single seat in that stadium should be filled with someone who gives at least the $15 a month that was mentioned earlier. After that is accomplished should be the next time any expansion or track removal is mentioned. Sorry for another rant and it is not directed just at you. We just need to be adults and be responsible for our own entertainment.

Amen!

[clayton]

A lot of the debate here has centered around fee increases since the FBS/Sun Belt move. I don't think that was Howard's point.

We've been talking about student fees for 2014 through next year...the Sun Belt years.

No, the athletics fee hasn't gone up much since 2014 when it was $701. But, in 2010-2011 the fee was $569. Back in 2005-2006, it was $364. Way back in 1996-97? $179.

Some years, they raise it by $5. Sometimes its 20 bucks. Every once in a while, they'll move it up by $80-$90. So, I wouldn't make a big deal about a 3 year run of small increases.

But, Howard/The Appalachian only mention the athletics fee.

In 2003-2004, students paid $75 to the "Athletics Facilities Debt Service Fee." It was that fee's first year. Now, it's $248.

[JTApps1]

College freshmen are 18 years old.

This is about means, not about age. Sure in the real world people pay for benefits they don't use. But they also (theoretically at least) pay somewhat according to their means. Not so much the case here.

The complaint doesn't seem to be about lack of funds so much as not wanting to pay for something they don't utilize which is why I made the comments I did. Plus, lets not forget they all knew the costs associated with attending App when they agreed to enroll. There are options out there without these fees.

If they need some extra cash nobody is stopping them from getting a PT job, or cutting back spending in other areas to pay for school. I worked 20-30 hours a week while in school to help pay for housing and food costs, and many other have done the same.

and equally the fans could cut back in other ways to pay for their entertainment. That is my main objection. Regardless of whether the fees are just or not the fans are not pulling their weight. We want to move up, we want expansion, we want new track facilities so we can get rid of the track around the field but we don't want to pay for it. The student can get a part time job to pay for it but the adult with a full time job does not? People can keep trying to justify what is going on but it is just plain wrong. The fan base is not supporting the program plain and simple. We kept asking for things and we got them. The administration kept their end of the bargain and the fan base for the MOST part did not. The student are holding up their end and the fan base is not. No amount of trying to justify it is going to change it. The students knew the cost to attend, and that is granted and they paid the full bill. The fan base also knew the cost of the program and they didn't pay the full bill. I am sorry to keep harping on this but somebody just has to be up front about this and say it like it is. We like to say we support our program like nobody else, when in fact the real truth is that we travel well. There is a difference. Every single seat in that stadium should be filled with someone who gives at least the $15 a month that was mentioned earlier. After that is accomplished should be the next time any expansion or track removal is mentioned. Sorry for another rant and it is not directed just at you. We just need to be adults and be responsible for our own entertainment.

I completely agree that alumni and fans need to do more to support, and I stated I would love for there not to be a student fee to help pay for athletics. My issue is with this group wanting to completely do away with the fee when we have no other way to pay for things currently, and they all knew the costs associated with enrolling at App before the came here.

At the Yosef Club event last night Gillin said to fully fund scholarships for every sport we sponsor the cost is around $8 million, and to just fund the scholarships we currently give it would cost over $5 million. Last year we had about $3.5 million in YC donations so we clearly have a long way to go to hit either goal. He also said we have a 5 year plan to get this cost covered, but if what these students are asking for were a reality we'd be in a huge hole before that happens. If that happens the money would have to come from somewhere which means in the end the things they want to support instead of athletics would still suffer. The only other option is to cut expenses which means cutting sports. That is an entirely different argument that many people are against.

Maybe instead of fighting athletics they should work with the AD, Yosef Club, and Alumni Association to find ways to boost giving? They could donate their time to help with fundraising efforts, because the only way to get rid of the fees is to get people involved. They need to help the cause if it means that much to them.

[JTApps1]

A lot of the debate here has centered around fee increases since the FBS/Sun Belt move. I don't think that was Howard's point.

We've been talking about student fees for 2014 through next year...the Sun Belt years.

No, the athletics fee hasn't gone up much since 2014 when it was $701. But, in 2010-2011 the fee was $569. Back in 2005-2006, it was $364. Way back in 1996-97? $179.

Some years, they raise it by $5. Sometimes its 20 bucks. Every once in a while, they'll move it up by $80-$90. So, I wouldn't make a big deal about a 3 year run of small increases.

But, Howard/The Appalachian only mention the athletics fee.

In 2003-2004, students paid $75 to the "Athletics Facilities Debt Service Fee." It was that fee's first year. Now, it's $248.

Wasn't the debt service fee and subsequent increase both voted on by the students?

[Nugget49]

Athletic fees are by a wide margin the largest addition to in state tuition cost. Oh and the $378 or whatever it was does not include another $124 for athletic facilities debt and we know where the lions share of that debt is. That's about 13% of total tuition. Cultural affairs which would include LGBT stuff that was sarcastically thrown out is $21 per sem just for comparison. All added fees are about 44% of tuition. So again it is not trivial and the fans of our great program are not pulling the wagon. We are riding it while the students pull. I wish we had the problem of a student lottery for tickets as that would mean there was demand. In reality if we did not have our stadium 1/3 filled with students it would be a sad situation. As I have said many times THANKS TO OUR GREAT STUDENT FAN BASE (many of you may not know but the game has 4 qtrs [emoji12])


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel very awkward defending App fans, but I suspect the vast majority of non-student butts in the seats in KBS on a Saturday belong to NC residents that pay the taxes that allow undergrads to go to ASU for about 1/2 the cost of in-state students in other states. Non-student fans are doing much.

[bcoach]

Athletic fees are by a wide margin the largest addition to in state tuition cost. Oh and the $378 or whatever it was does not include another $124 for athletic facilities debt and we know where the lions share of that debt is. That's about 13% of total tuition. Cultural affairs which would include LGBT stuff that was sarcastically thrown out is $21 per sem just for comparison. All added fees are about 44% of tuition. So again it is not trivial and the fans of our great program are not pulling the wagon. We are riding it while the students pull. I wish we had the problem of a student lottery for tickets as that would mean there was demand. In reality if we did not have our stadium 1/3 filled with students it would be a sad situation. As I have said many times THANKS TO OUR GREAT STUDENT FAN BASE (many of you may not know but the game has 4 qtrs [emoji12])


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel very awkward defending App fans, but I suspect the vast majority of non-student butts in the seats in KBS on a Saturday belong to NC residents that pay the taxes that allow undergrads to go to ASU for about 1/2 the cost of in-state students in other states. Non-student fans are doing much.

Apples and Oranges. One is education and the other is entertainment.

[APPdiesel]

I buy tickets. That's how I support my school. Those who say I need to further stretch my already thin budget can sit and spin.

twitter.com/DieselOnRadio

[Gonzo]

One is education and the other is entertainment.

And nationwide marketing. And networking. Let's not forget the intrinsic benefits listed four pages ago in this thread.

There are many student fees that have less to do with education than athletics, and no others that contribute more efficiently to the University as a whole. Or maybe you majored in 8 ball, bcoach?

[Appftw]

I buy tickets. That's how I support my school. Those who say I need to further stretch my already thin budget can sit and spin.

twitter.com/DieselOnRadio

I don't think anyone called you out man. Giving one dollar is more than 98% of our alumni, sadly.

[appbio91]

I'm really just curious how we lost 3600 season ticket holders. I wonder if there was also a drop in Yosef over that same time period?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[APPdiesel]

I buy tickets. That's how I support my school. Those who say I need to further stretch my already thin budget can sit and spin.

twitter.com/DieselOnRadio

I don't think anyone called you out man. Giving one dollar is more than 98% of our alumni, sadly.

No, Appftw, you didn't. But one poster not far back made it clear that those who aren't giving more and more and more and more aren't doing their part. And on behalf of those of us who simply can't, I take offense to that.

College freshmen are 18 years old.

This is about means, not about age. Sure in the real world people pay for benefits they don't use. But they also (theoretically at least) pay somewhat according to their means. Not so much the case here.

The complaint doesn't seem to be about lack of funds so much as not wanting to pay for something they don't utilize which is why I made the comments I did. Plus, lets not forget they all knew the costs associated with attending App when they agreed to enroll. There are options out there without these fees.

If they need some extra cash nobody is stopping them from getting a PT job, or cutting back spending in other areas to pay for school. I worked 20-30 hours a week while in school to help pay for housing and food costs, and many other have done the same.

and equally the fans could cut back in other ways to pay for their entertainment. That is my main objection. Regardless of whether the fees are just or not the fans are not pulling their weight. We want to move up, we want expansion, we want new track facilities so we can get rid of the track around the field but we don't want to pay for it. The student can get a part time job to pay for it but the adult with a full time job does not? People can keep trying to justify what is going on but it is just plain wrong. The fan base is not supporting the program plain and simple. We kept asking for things and we got them. The administration kept their end of the bargain and the fan base for the MOST part did not. The student are holding up their end and the fan base is not. No amount of trying to justify it is going to change it. The students knew the cost to attend, and that is granted and they paid the full bill. The fan base also knew the cost of the program and they didn't pay the full bill. I am sorry to keep harping on this but somebody just has to be up front about this and say it like it is. We like to say we support our program like nobody else, when in fact the real truth is that we travel well. There is a difference. Every single seat in that stadium should be filled with someone who gives at least the $15 a month that was mentioned earlier. After that is accomplished should be the next time any expansion or track removal is mentioned. Sorry for another rant and it is not directed just at you. We just need to be adults and be responsible for our own entertainment.

twitter.com/DieselOnRadio

[JTApps1]

I buy tickets. That's how I support my school. Those who say I need to further stretch my already thin budget can sit and spin.

twitter.com/DieselOnRadio

I think everyone can agree that anyone currently giving to YC, or buying season tickets are doing there part. It's the 95% of alumni that do neither that are the problem.

[APPdiesel]

It's no one's place to govern or scorn an alumni for how they choose to spend their money. We here on this board are the uber passionate minority. I'd say most of us here have season tickets. The ones who don't buy season tickets (aka, apparently, the deadbeats) don't come here and most likely aren't the ones demanding 10k more seats or a track-free Kidd Brewer. So wallet-shaming them on a message board they don't even visit is pointless.

It comes across as "I give more than you so I'm more of a fan than you, na na na, boo boo, I'm a bigger fan than you you".

[Saint3333]

People are reading more into this than written, especially if you got that from JT's post. The size of your donation doesn't mean you're a bigger fan, let's not be thin skinned about this topic. This like so many other topics turns into the united state of the offended.

We don't have a 35k seat stadium and we do place north of 50% of the athletic budget on our students due to the lack of giving back from alumni and fans of program, two things that are discussed at length each offseason. That is a solid, yet hard to swallow, fact. I'm hopeful that as our fanbase grows in age so do the amounts we are able to raise for the Yosef Club and the number of tickets we can sale. We are a young fanbase, many who have more pressing demands for their funds.

My stance is give what you can, attend games (buy tickets through the athletic department) and once you've given what you can invite a friend to games. Then once you feel comfortable they're invested ask them to join the Yosef Club. A new member that is invested is worth soooo much to this program as we grow.

Every dollar counts in our daily lives to provide for our families and every dollar counts for a program that we love.

[Rekdiver]

well said