Men's Golf

[bigdaddyg]

Did I read it correctly, 8 tournament wins as a team in about 45 years?

[Rekdiver]

Not much to celebrate....

[bigdaddyg]

If I read it correctly we have 8 team tournament wins in about 45 years?

[Rekdiver]

Correct. The only championships were in the SoCon in 74 and 76. And while I singled out Men's golf I want to make sure it's understood I am only looking at this from a purely financial basis. I'd be worried about men's and women's soccer (my passion next to App football) and a few other Olympic sports. Tough and potentially unpopular choices loom.

[ASUGoose]

Again i have no clue what the golf budget is or how many scholarships there are...bu for the sake of a WAG (wild ass guess)
Coach $75,000 Travel $25,000 Schollies $30,000/ Misc. $25,000. Just assuming i'm in the neighborhood that is $155,000 which would give 155 other athletes $1,000 a year toward the COA. Boone is just not conducive to year-round golf as some have said. The alternative is more donations and one that is not an alternative is raising student fees. We have to start re-defining our priorities and it is expensive keeping up with the big boys until College presidents and Boards decide to reign in coach salaries and stop stupid spending.

Coach's salary is likely in the $45k range and no one gets a full scholarship, likely 3 full that are split among multiple players on the team. Golf doesn't fly anywhere unless they have fund raised accordingly to cover those costs. They have a van and travel is really mostly regional unless they have fundraised to travel to a tournament location farther out.

[asu66]

Again i have no clue what the golf budget is or how many scholarships there are...bu for the sake of a WAG (wild ass guess)
Coach $75,000 Travel $25,000 Schollies $30,000/ Misc. $25,000. Just assuming i'm in the neighborhood that is $155,000 which would give 155 other athletes $1,000 a year toward the COA. Boone is just not conducive to year-round golf as some have said. The alternative is more donations and one that is not an alternative is raising student fees. We have to start re-defining our priorities and it is expensive keeping up with the big boys until College presidents and Boards decide to reign in coach salaries and stop stupid spending.

I confess that I don't know exactly how many M/W golf scholarships we offer. I am aware that the NCAA maximum for men's golf is 4.5. It's 6 for women's golf. Thank you, Title IX.

The tuition portion for an in-state scholarship at App runs between $6,500 and $7,000. For out of state/out of country just double those numbers. Our women's team probably gets the max of 6. The men--I'm not certain.

[proasu89]

Again i have no clue what the golf budget is or how many scholarships there are...bu for the sake of a WAG (wild ass guess)
Coach $75,000 Travel $25,000 Schollies $30,000/ Misc. $25,000. Just assuming i'm in the neighborhood that is $155,000 which would give 155 other athletes $1,000 a year toward the COA. Boone is just not conducive to year-round golf as some have said. The alternative is more donations and one that is not an alternative is raising student fees. We have to start re-defining our priorities and it is expensive keeping up with the big boys until College presidents and Boards decide to reign in coach salaries and stop stupid spending.

Coach's salary is likely in the $45k range and no one gets a full scholarship, likely 3 full that are split among multiple players on the team. Golf doesn't fly anywhere unless they have fund raised accordingly to cover those costs. They have a van and travel is really mostly regional unless they have fundraised to travel to a tournament location farther out.

Goose's #'s are more realistic.

[Rekdiver]

That's why I said a W A G!

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Keep golf. It gives us something to talk about outside of football season. That and the can't close a game baseball team, and the painfully rebuilding basketball squad.

[T-Dog]

Dicus is making $40,159 this year. He, like most Olympic sport coaches, work on one-year contracts. The women's golf coach, Heather Brown, is making $37,706 this year.

Cutting men's golf by itself would be a very cheap-skate move IMO. Expenses are minimal and you never hear about any App golfers getting into trouble. Saving a few bucks isn't going to help App State in the long term IMO.

App doesn't have Title IX problems like some schools because male/female enrollment is about 50/50. Some school is more like 40/60 and thus have to cut men's sports just to be in compliance.

I'd have to see a really good argument before wanting to cut the sport.

[Rekdiver]

You don't hear about App golfers...period. Nice young men and women for sure but I'd argue that between the 2 golf teams that never win anything and 5 or 6 scholarships we would cut we could save at least $125,000 and use that money to pay 125 other scholarship players $1,000 toward the COA OR use the money to hire a better baseball coach and add a couple scholarships to Women's soccer or VB.
It may be cheap-skate but we are already penny-pinching and that $125,000 could be used in better places. It's just my opinion but keeping the sport for the sake of appearances and a Bubas Cup isn't enough. If Nike or UA wants to fund a golf team or we get a new benefactor to endow the golf program that would be great.

[JTApps1]

Dicus is making $40,159 this year. He, like most Olympic sport coaches, work on one-year contracts. The women's golf coach, Heather Brown, is making $37,706 this year.

Cutting men's golf by itself would be a very cheap-skate move IMO. Expenses are minimal and you never hear about any App golfers getting into trouble. Saving a few bucks isn't going to help App State in the long term IMO.

App doesn't have Title IX problems like some schools because male/female enrollment is about 50/50. Some school is more like 40/60 and thus have to cut men's sports just to be in compliance.

I'd have to see a really good argument before wanting to cut the sport.

Dropping golf wouldn't save a huge amount of money, but every bit that you save on a sport like this helps. The one big argument is we have never been, and will never be competitive in golf due to our location. Why should we continue to send kids out there knowing they have no chance to win?

According to these salary figures we're spending $78,000 a year on coaches which as you pointed out isn't much for two sports. If you add in travel, equipment, and scholarships were' probably in the neighborhood of $150,000 a year. That would cover the COA for 43 players in other sports, or could go towards the salaries of assistant coaches in other sports that we have to field.

Everyone is mad about our results in baseball, right? I was told at one time (not sure where it is currently) that our 2 assistants were splitting $36,000 a year. Even if it is more than that now how do we ever expect to be competitive in the Sun Belt paying those type of salaries? I'm sure many of our other Olympic sports are in a similar position. We need to scale back and put our resources into a smaller number of sports so that we can give those teams the best chance to succeed.

[CVAPP]

Dropping golf wouldn't save a huge amount of money, but every bit that you save on a sport like this helps. The one big argument is we have never been, and will never be competitive in golf due to our location. Why should we continue to send kids out there knowing they have no chance to win?

This.

We need to scale back and put our resources into a smaller number of sports so that we can give those teams the best chance to succeed.

And this pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

If golf were successful, it would still be a low to no revenue generating sport. With that being said, any argument to cut the program because they aren't good is foolish. Cutting the expense of the sport is a different story. Being in a southern based conference with a less than ideal year round climate will cause our spring sports to always suffer when it comes to recruiting.

[bigdaddyg]

I'm sure that all of the men and women golfers we have are fine men and women. The talk of cutting the programs does sound harsh on the surface and of course none of us make those decisions but the reality is that neither of those teams will probably never win much on a consistent basis. Even if both teams were perennial power houses what is the upside as far as revenue? Do any college golf programs bring in any substantial revenue? Another piece to consider with the costs are benefits which often amount to close to 30% of the salary (assuming both coaching positions receive benefits). I agree that the total cost to fund both programs annually is not that much in the grand scheme of things but we now have a new reality. In order to compete annually in the main revenue sports we have to bring in and keep the best student athletes we can get and now we have to pay them. I tend to agree that $150-$200K will go a long way with COA and salary expenses needed to attract and keep top notch coaches. Personally I wish that App could field all sports and that they would all remain successful but again, the reality is another thing.

[ASUGoose]

I'll also point out that cutting women's golf also cuts the perfect 1000 or near perfect APR academic score they have been contributing the past 5 years (I think it has been that long). Like I said before, golf isn't going to be cut b/c it's a pin prick financially as compared to other non-revenue generating sports at App and all teams in Sun Belt have golf as well. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but cutting the golf programs aren't realistic.

[CVAPP]

I'll also point out that cutting women's golf also cuts the perfect 1000 or near perfect APR academic score they have been contributing the past 5 years (I think it has been that long). Like I said before, golf isn't going to be cut b/c it's a pin prick financially as compared to other non-revenue generating sports at App and all teams in Sun Belt have golf as well. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but cutting the golf programs aren't realistic.

Are you saying cutting any program is unrealistic or that something else would be eliminated before golf? If it's the latter what program might it be?

[Rekdiver]

Doesnt each sport have its own APR?

[ASUGoose]

I'll also point out that cutting women's golf also cuts the perfect 1000 or near perfect APR academic score they have been contributing the past 5 years (I think it has been that long). Like I said before, golf isn't going to be cut b/c it's a pin prick financially as compared to other non-revenue generating sports at App and all teams in Sun Belt have golf as well. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but cutting the golf programs aren't realistic.

Are you saying cutting any program is unrealistic or that something else would be eliminated before golf? If it's the latter what program might it be?

Not saying cutting any program is unrealistic but ones where all members of the Sun Belt are fielding are least likely to be cut IMO.

[3rd]

Obviously none of us are in charge of athletic decisions (thank god) but if we were there are a bunch of compelling arguments for dropping golf. I assume we have a women's golf coach as well who makes a decent salary and we have comparable annual costs that Rekdiver took a stab at (probably not too far off). I would have to think that climate issues, that will always be in play, have to come into play. Over the past 30 years or so what has been our best overall showing for both teams in a conference or national scale?

But Title IV we are well behind in it (I am pretty sure) and I am surprised we have not been hit hard on not being up to code with that. (once again I am pretty sure about those numbers)