Run the table just for kicks discussion

[WVAPPeer]

All of this kind of reinforces a couple of things:

1. For football we are in a crappy conference
2. Unless we go unbeaten and knock off a heavyweight we have no chance of going to a premier bowl
3. When you get right down to it there might not be a huge difference between 11-1 and 8-4. We can drop games to UT and the U and even Akron then 1 in conference and still win the Belt then still end up in the same bowl?

This is so true - I brought this up after the conclusion of last season with the point being we could have finished 11-1 with the only loss to the National Runner-up and we would have still been in the same bowl game --- THUS, why I have been asking the questions I have in this thread ---

[EastHallApp]

All of this kind of reinforces a couple of things:

1. For football we are in a crappy conference
2. Unless we go unbeaten and knock off a heavyweight we have no chance of going to a premier bowl
3. When you get right down to it there might not be a huge difference between 11-1 and 8-4. We can drop games to UT and the U and even Akron then 1 in conference and still win the Belt then still end up in the same bowl?

Agree on all, except I think there are a number of reasons 11-1 >>> 8-4 beyond just bowl destination. But, strictly in terms of bowls, we're *probably* going to one of the SBC's primary tie-ins no matter what.

[firemoose]

Every bowl has exceptions written into their contracts that allow for some wiggle room in both directions. It's stupid to think otherwise because then what happens when the conference you have tie ins to doesn't have enough bowl eligible teams? The bowl isn't played? It works the other way as well. There are many things that have to take place for some exceptions to be allowed and parties have to agree. But it does happen.

The only thing we have control of is ourselves. Get the best record possible and then see what happens.

[AppinVA]

All of this kind of reinforces a couple of things:

1. For football we are in a crappy conference
2. Unless we go unbeaten and knock off a heavyweight we have no chance of going to a premier bowl
3. When you get right down to it there might not be a huge difference between 11-1 and 8-4. We can drop games to UT and the U and even Akron then 1 in conference and still win the Belt then still end up in the same bowl?

1. Yes, using your words, but not mine -- I like the Sun Belt. You have to stand before you crawl, crawl before you walk and walk before you run. It could be worse. We could be JMU.
2. Yes. Until we build our brand as a league that we begin to sign bowls that offer match ups against top teams from the AAC or mid level ranked but not NY6 level P5 schools. Orrrrrrr, we get a golden ticket to the AAC.
3. Yes. But 11-1 makes for one hell of a regular season.

[EastHallApp]

Every bowl has exceptions written into their contracts that allow for some wiggle room in both directions. It's stupid to think otherwise because then what happens when the conference you have tie ins to doesn't have enough bowl eligible teams? The bowl isn't played? It works the other way as well. There are many things that have to take place for some exceptions to be allowed and parties have to agree. But it does happen.

The only thing we have control of is ourselves. Get the best record possible and then see what happens.

The provisions for when a league doesn't have enough eligible teams are well-documented: The bowl goes to secondary tie-ins (if they have any), then at-large. That's different than what's being discussed here.

I don't know of any precedent for what we've been discussing. Maybe it exists, and if so, I'd love to hear about it. But it's not like we'd be the first G5 to have a great year, and to my knowledge, in the modern era of bowl tie-ins, they all either got a BCS/NY6 bid or went to one of their league's primary tie-ins.

Again, if there are examples to the contrary, that's great news, please enlighten me. I guess maybe that's what La. Tech attempted a couple years back, but obviously it didn't work too well for them.

[firemoose]

Feel free to find the contracts for each bowl. They are available if you want to spend the time to look. I have been told by multiple sources over the years that each bowl writes exceptions into every contract to cover every contingency. It's the only smart thing to do from a business standpoint. Personally I don't have the time to spend looking up every bowl but the fact that La Tech was even looking for a different bowl game says that there was at least the POSSIBILITY of going to one. If there wasn't then their administration were complete idiots. The fact it didn't work out is on them.

[bigdaddyg]

Oh and just for the record my example uses an 8-4 record. I absolutely believe we have a legit shot at 11-1. I just suspect that finishing with either record might result in basically the same bowl. Our hope would be that 11-1 we would at least garner a nice opponent. No matter the bowl result if we take down the U and go 11-1 that will be a helluva season.

[EastHallApp]

Feel free to find the contracts for each bowl. They are available if you want to spend the time to look. I have been told by multiple sources over the years that each bowl writes exceptions into every contract to cover every contingency. It's the only smart thing to do from a business standpoint. Personally I don't have the time to spend looking up every bowl but the fact that La Tech was even looking for a different bowl game says that there was at least the POSSIBILITY of going to one. If there wasn't then their administration were complete idiots. The fact it didn't work out is on them and their conference. Is that enlightening enough?

Problem is that the La. Tech situation was actually not comparable. Their issue was they were in the WAC during its final season of existence, and the league only had one remaining tie-in, which went to another school. So La. Tech was picking between at-large spots. They had an invite from one (Independence Bowl), but they asked for more time in hopes of landing another, and they wound up without a seat anywhere.

Here's a more thorough account for anyone who's interested: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... e/1741769/

As for the bowl contracts, I don't believe those are public record, even if I did want to look them up. Or if they are, I have no idea where to find them.

[firemoose]

I fully know what the situation was with La Tech. My point was that to even hope to find an at large bid meant that some bowls have at least the possibility of taking a non tie in team. As for the contracts, I've read clauses and even full contracts from more than a dozen bowls over the years, just for curiosity's sake and for the hell of it. You just have to take the time to look. Even things that aren't public record have a way of finding their way on the net and into certain circles. As for the rest it's apparent I have no idea what I'm talking about so I'll defer to you. The keys to the Lodge are under the mat.

[EastHallApp]

I fully know what the situation was with La Tech. My point was that to even hope to find an at large bid meant that some bowls have at least the possibility of taking a non tie in team. As for the contracts, I've read clauses and even full contracts from more than a dozen bowls over the years, just for curiosity's sake and for the hell of it. You just have to take the time to look. Even things that aren't public record have a way of finding their way on the net and into certain circles. As for the rest it's apparent I have no idea what I'm talking about so I'll defer to you. The keys to the Lodge are under the mat.

Come on man. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but I think we're talking past each other a bit.

Yes, bowls can take at-large teams if they can't fill their spots with primary tie-ins. But the only reason LT was in that position was because they were not chosen by their own league's primary tie-in first. Their ONLY option was an at-large bid somewhere. Which only happened because they were in a dying league with just one tie-in, and that went to the league champion.

Their aren't any one-bowl leagues anymore. Every league has at least five tie-ins (many more for the P5s, as you know). The teams getting at-large bids are the ones who didn't get selected for any of their league's primary bowls. Those are 6- and 7-win (and 5-win) teams, not 10- and 11-win teams

[firemoose]

East: It was a joke...note the laughing smilie. All is well....All is well.

[proasu89]

Again - not what I am asking - Prior to any picks by any SB bowls THE SUNBELT CONFERENCE gives APP a waiver - is that possible?

Don't think the Sun Belt would garner many future bowl contracts if they applied this business model.

[WVAPPeer]

Again - not what I am asking - Prior to any picks by any SB bowls THE SUNBELT CONFERENCE gives APP a waiver - is that possible?

Don't think the Sun Belt would garner many future bowl contracts if they applied this business model.

The SB is already at the bottom with bowl tie-ins ---

[AppSt94]

So let's say we have six bowl eligible teams. Assuming we are 11-1, can the Sun Belt release us to go to better bowl? It would behoove the conference to get as much exposure as possible.

The conference is under contract with those five bowls. The bowls get to select the team of their choosing. How would it work for the conference to unilaterally "release" us from that contract?

Yes you are correct in that we have 5 bowls that we are contracted with. Hence my question about having 6 teams qualify for a bowl. If there are 5 viable options for these bowls and we, are sitting at 11-1, do you not think it possible that the 4 letter network, which controls most of the bowls, could step in and quietly persuade the bowls to let App play in a game against a P5 that could generate some ratings?

[EastHallApp]

So let's say we have six bowl eligible teams. Assuming we are 11-1, can the Sun Belt release us to go to better bowl? It would behoove the conference to get as much exposure as possible.

The conference is under contract with those five bowls. The bowls get to select the team of their choosing. How's would it work for the conference to unilaterally "release" us from that contract?

Yes you are correct in that we have 5 bowls that we are contracted with. Hence my question about having 6 teams qualify for a bowl. If there are 5 viable options for these bowls and we, are sitting at 11-1, do you not think it possible that the 4 letter network, which controls most of the bowls, could step in and quietly persuade the bowls to let App play in a game against a P5 that could generate some ratings?

Theoretically, maybe. But I don't know of a case where they've done something like that for G5 leagues, and I'm not sure we command the sort of ratings to warrant such a move. Finally, ESPN does not own or broadcast the Cure Bowl.

[AppSt94]

So let's say we have six bowl eligible teams. Assuming we are 11-1, can the Sun Belt release us to go to better bowl? It would behoove the conference to get as much exposure as possible.

The conference is under contract with those five bowls. The bowls get to select the team of their choosing. How's would it work for the conference to unilaterally "release" us from that contract?

Yes you are correct in that we have 5 bowls that we are contracted with. Hence my question about having 6 teams qualify for a bowl. If there are 5 viable options for these bowls and we, are sitting at 11-1, do you not think it possible that the 4 letter network, which controls most of the bowls, could step in and quietly persuade the bowls to let App play in a game against a P5 that could generate some ratings?

Theoretically, maybe. But I don't know of a case where they've done something like that for G5 leagues, and I'm not sure we command the sort of ratings to warrant such a move. Finally, ESPN does not own or broadcast the Cure Bowl.

I don't know that it would ever happen to anyone but a G5 conference. Again, it is a moot point if we don't have five other teams, along with us, that qualify for a bowl game. If I am not mistaken, the bowls that we are tied to don't have to pick by any particular order of finish. So New Orleans would probably take Arkansas St. over us. The Camilla would probably prefer someone other than us because we were there last year. The Camilla would probably like to have a pick of, (assuming they qualify) Troy, USA, or Ga Southern, maybe even Ga. State. The DG Bowl would want either USA or Troy. The Cure could take either of the Georgia Schools. I am at a loss of who our 5th tie in. We have a good chance to have more teams than bowls spots this year.