Here are the EMAILS Letters

[appgrad]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

[bcoach]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

Oh now I get it. All this time I thought you were being serious. Good one. You got me.

[MountainMan]

Not that it really matters, but I sorta agree with bcoach on this one.

After an offer to Jerry, and he having turned it down, and essentially a counter-offer back to CC, presented to the Chancellor, and seemingly agreed to by everyone, WHY NOT put those details down in writing and get JM to sign that specific agreement as a part of his one-year contract? No, you don't HAVE to do that, but just like any back and forth discussion that reaches an agreement it's always a good idea to write the specific agreement down and distribute it to everyone involved. Geez, that's what I did with the guy that plows snow in my drive way. I'd sure as heck do it with an employee that I just reached a special agreement with regarding their employment status for one year from now.

[BeauFoster]

Not that it really matters, but I sorta agree with bcoach on this one.

After an offer to Jerry, and he having turned it down, and essentially a counter-offer back to CC, presented to the Chancellor, and seemingly agreed to by everyone, WHY NOT put those details down in writing and get JM to sign that specific agreement as a part of his one-year contract? No, you don't HAVE to do that, but just like any back and forth discussion that reaches an agreement it's always a good idea to write the specific agreement down and distribute it to everyone involved. Geez, that's what I did with the guy that plows snow in my drive way. I'd sure as heck do it with an employee that I just reached a special agreement with regarding their employment status for one year from now.

Those details may be in writing-but if the university attorney was included, the information becomes privileged and is likely not subject to FOIA. I'm guessing that's why we only see a couple of emails. It makes good sense to include council on matters of employment and contracts.

[MountainMan]

I certainly agree with that. But that rationale is not the argument that was being made by other posters.

[appbio91]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

There are two ways to terminate one's employment treat them like a human being and treat them like an employee. Cobb treated Moore like a friend. It works better the way you descibed an HR professional would handle it. Moore should have been told we are terminating your contract and this is what we are going to do for you to help you with the transition. My company has experimented with terminating people and giving them six months to transition. In those cases people would work their asses off in hopes that the company would change their minds. They became very bitter when it was clear they were still terminated. A clean in writing cut with a transition plan works best for all involved. I guarantee you Moore would be raking in his six figs and would be very happy by now if the HR professional track would have followed.

[bcoach]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

There are two ways to terminate one's employment treat them like a human being and treat them like an employee. Cobb treated Moore like a friend. It works better the way you descibed an HR professional would handle it. Moore should have been told we are terminating your contract and this is what we are going to do for you to help you with the transition. My company has experimented with terminating people and giving them six months to transition. In those cases people would work their asses off in hopes that the company would change their minds. They became very bitter when it was clear they were still terminated. A clean in writing cut with a transition plan works best for all involved. I guarantee you Moore would be raking in his six figs and would be very happy by now if the HR professional track would have followed.

There is no doubt that if you are going to let them go you do it now. That is always what I have done and what I would suggest to any employer. But he didn't. My argument starts when it was decided to give him one more year. I am not making the case for if that should have been done. I an saying what should have been done after the decision to extend. Your thoughts?

[appbio91]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

There are two ways to terminate one's employment treat them like a human being and treat them like an employee. Cobb treated Moore like a friend. It works better the way you descibed an HR professional would handle it. Moore should have been told we are terminating your contract and this is what we are going to do for you to help you with the transition. My company has experimented with terminating people and giving them six months to transition. In those cases people would work their asses off in hopes that the company would change their minds. They became very bitter when it was clear they were still terminated. A clean in writing cut with a transition plan works best for all involved. I guarantee you Moore would be raking in his six figs and would be very happy by now if the HR professional track would have followed.

There is no doubt that if you are going to let them go you do it now. That is always what I have done and what I would suggest to any employer. But he didn't. My argument starts when it was decided to give him one more year. I am not making the case for if that should have been done. I an saying what should have been done after the decision to extend. Your thoughts?

I think after the decision to keep Moore was made Cobb did what he thought was appropriate. Jerry was his friend and colleague. He assumed he was letting Jerry go out on his terms. He treated him with respect. But he left himself open to the bitterness I descibed above. I hate it for both guys and us. I agree he probably felt nothing needed to be put in writing because of the relationship he had with Jerry. If these talks had been nasty last year I think something would have been put in writing. We are playing monday morning QB second guessing Cobb on this point.

[AppinATL]

Really guys??? At what point are y'all going to reach the point of being sick about this now-useless discussion? Can we move on?

[asutrnr81]

Not that it really matters, but I sorta agree with bcoach on this one.

After an offer to Jerry, and he having turned it down, and essentially a counter-offer back to CC, presented to the Chancellor, and seemingly agreed to by everyone, WHY NOT put those details down in writing and get JM to sign that specific agreement as a part of his one-year contract? No, you don't HAVE to do that, but just like any back and forth discussion that reaches an agreement it's always a good idea to write the specific agreement down and distribute it to everyone involved. Geez, that's what I did with the guy that plows snow in my drive way. I'd sure as heck do it with an employee that I just reached a special agreement with regarding their employment status for one year from now.

i like your thinking and not making an argument....only saying that if I am CC and I am sitting in my office after jousting through the issues on the email, I come to this conclusion. Anything else I put in writing might be used by "anyone" to prove something in court that a verbal contract was entered into...so why not just let the current contract end and NOTHING else would need to be done.

Putting it into writing might be construed by a court that you actually did fire JM and thus expose you to an unemployment ins. claim. (And before anyone screams....if you have dealt with the EEOC lately you have not lived). They think lots of stuff is the liability of the employer that many times is not!

Part of this issue is that once you overlap administrations and someone has been around as long as JM you start getting issues like this because it it hard to keep straight....Happened at PSU, FSU....and other larger institutions.

I think most of this is a lesson learned and in the end we will have less of a problem like this in the future!

Go APPS

[appbio91]

Really guys??? At what point are y'all going to reach the point of being sick about this now-useless discussion? Can we move on?

Somebody might say something that is actually interesting and new eventually so let's keep it going at least until new coach announcement.

[AppinATL]

Really guys??? At what point are y'all going to reach the point of being sick about this now-useless discussion? Can we move on?

Somebody might say something that is actually interesting and new eventually so let's keep it going at least until new coach announcement.

How's this for an idea? Since nobody has said anything interesting or new in quite awhile now, why don't we just not say anything at all until something really new comes up? That way we won't have to keep coming back everyt ime we get an email notification in hopes of there being something new, only to have those hopes dashed by the same old boring $h*t.

[bcoach]

Really guys??? At what point are y'all going to reach the point of being sick about this now-useless discussion? Can we move on?

Somebody might say something that is actually interesting and new eventually so let's keep it going at least until new coach announcement.

How's this for an idea? Since nobody has said anything interesting or new in quite awhile now, why don't we just not say anything at all until something really new comes up? That way we won't have to keep coming back everyt ime we get an email notification in hopes of there being something new, only to have those hopes dashed by the same old boring $h*t.

Unsubscribe topic It's at the bottom of the page.

[appbio91]

Really guys??? At what point are y'all going to reach the point of being sick about this now-useless discussion? Can we move on?

Somebody might say something that is actually interesting and new eventually so let's keep it going at least until new coach announcement.

How's this for an idea? Since nobody has said anything interesting or new in quite awhile now, why don't we just not say anything at all until something really new comes up? That way we won't have to keep coming back everyt ime we get an email notification in hopes of there being something new, only to have those hopes dashed by the same old boring $h*t.

Seriously that is a pain. I went into my profile and turned notifications off. I liked it better when you were only notified when someone responded directly to your post. You can unsubscribe by clicking link in notification email.

[AppStateNews]

Seriously that is a pain. I went into my profile and turned notifications off. I liked it better when you were only notified when someone responded directly to your post. You can unsubscribe by clicking link in notification email.

That is how we have it over on the forums at AppStateCentral.com. You can actually choose when you get email notifications each time you post. You can choose to get them based on the whole thread or your one comment. Problem is, from a programming standpoint, this is DIFFICULT to achieve in a system like phpbb (the script this board uses). Not impossible, but hard to do.

Now, if only we can get more activity on the other forum..

[appgrad]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

There are two ways to terminate one's employment treat them like a human being and treat them like an employee. Cobb treated Moore like a friend. It works better the way you descibed an HR professional would handle it. Moore should have been told we are terminating your contract and this is what we are going to do for you to help you with the transition. My company has experimented with terminating people and giving them six months to transition. In those cases people would work their asses off in hopes that the company would change their minds. They became very bitter when it was clear they were still terminated. A clean in writing cut with a transition plan works best for all involved. I guarantee you Moore would be raking in his six figs and would be very happy by now if the HR professional track would have followed.

There is no doubt that if you are going to let them go you do it now. That is always what I have done and what I would suggest to any employer. But he didn't. My argument starts when it was decided to give him one more year. I am not making the case for if that should have been done. I an saying what should have been done after the decision to extend. Your thoughts?

Good - something I can respond to you that you wrote that doesn't make me want to be a sarcastic ass!!

I will say this - I think the last thing Cobb wanted to do is to seem like he was forcing Jerry out. A transition to another role, with what seemed like retirement, was ideal. When Jerry said he wanted to coach another year, he kind of forced his hand because the only way Cobb could get him off the sidelines for 2012 then would be to buy out his contract. I don't think he wanted to do that - especially since the rest of the staff was a skeleton crew by that point.

[bcoach]

An HR person would tell me you notify them in writing of your decision, hold an exit interview, then call security to escort them out the door...and do it on a Friday afternoon.

There is no PR issue except the one in your mind. I know it might come as a surprise...since many things seem to take you by surprise...but there are other people on here who work "in the real world". Most of them seem to grasp the fact that things were properly handled here.

Based on your thoughts here, I can only assume you leave it to your employees whether or not you're allowed to fire them. That could explain your complete lack of comprehension of this situation.

There are two ways to terminate one's employment treat them like a human being and treat them like an employee. Cobb treated Moore like a friend. It works better the way you descibed an HR professional would handle it. Moore should have been told we are terminating your contract and this is what we are going to do for you to help you with the transition. My company has experimented with terminating people and giving them six months to transition. In those cases people would work their asses off in hopes that the company would change their minds. They became very bitter when it was clear they were still terminated. A clean in writing cut with a transition plan works best for all involved. I guarantee you Moore would be raking in his six figs and would be very happy by now if the HR professional track would have followed.

There is no doubt that if you are going to let them go you do it now. That is always what I have done and what I would suggest to any employer. But he didn't. My argument starts when it was decided to give him one more year. I am not making the case for if that should have been done. I an saying what should have been done after the decision to extend. Your thoughts?

Good - something I can respond to you that you wrote that doesn't make me want to be a sarcastic ass!!

I will say this - I think the last thing Cobb wanted to do is to seem like he was forcing Jerry out. A transition to another role, with what seemed like retirement, was ideal. When Jerry said he wanted to coach another year, he kind of forced his hand because the only way Cobb could get him off the sidelines for 2012 then would be to buy out his contract. I don't think he wanted to do that - especially since the rest of the staff was a skeleton crew by that point.

I feel the love! I totaly agree with what you just said.

[appgrad]

This is getting too weird...maybe we should shut this thread down!?

[bcoach]

You got my vote!

[firemoose]

And for post #100 I will second that vote.