Attendance

[bcoach]

BD, as you can see from the list, almost all the top dogs are located in major metro areas (Orlando, Houston, Tampa, Memphis, Cincinatti...). The rural exceptions, ECU (91k), USM (46k) and Marshall (48k) are all located in larger towns than App (17k). I agree that App won't see ECU numbers anytime soon. We should shoot for USM and Boise type numbers (30-35k).

09, I understand the fans displeasure of seeing empty seats and no energy in the 2nd half. However, if 25k people (10k students) are paying to fill that 35k seat stadium, what they do with their seat is their business. Obviously, we all want every fan to stay and cheer until the end. Ultimately, if the AD is getting the money for those additional seats, the revenue will benefit the entire athletic department via coaching salaries, funding all athletic scholarships, facility improvements, etc...

Actually the students are paying more than we are so all 35 would be paid for. If fact the student seats are the ONLY seats that are a guaranteed paid seat every year.

[moonshine]

Coach, not sure what you mean by all 35k being paid for. I was basing my example off of the student attendance which probably ranges between 8-10k regularly. I realize that approximately 18k pay student fees but those 18k don't show up every game. Let us also remember, the athletic fee of $738 per year paid by full time students (less for part timers) goes to more than just football.

As it stands right now, App probably has approximately 15-18k regular paying fans per game. An additional 7-10k fans paying $25 per ticket would bring in an additional $1mil+ in revenue each season. I'm not in the camp that wants to expand just for the sake of expanding. I'm firmly in the camp of improvements across the board as long as it does not increase the burden placed on students. I'd really like to see App be able to lower their fees regardless of what other universities/programs charge.

I'd like to see DG put together a master plan that could possibly give KBS 28k permanent seats with the ability to possibly go to 35k in the future. I'd also like to see most, if not all of it, paid for by private funds. Although, I could go along with financing if TPTB feel we can responsibly finance such a project without increasing what students currently pay. There is no better time than now to get a low interest loan.

Does anyone know how much debt is still owed on the last expansion? Looks like full time students pay $248 per year towards debt retirement. Bcoach, assuming it's possible, would you be ok with the idea of possibly refinancing the current debt while taking on new debt towards expansion/improvements if the debt retirement fee were to actually decrease to say $200-$220 per year?

[bcoach]

Coach, not sure what you mean by all 35k being paid for. I was basing my example off of the student attendance which probably ranges between 8-10k regularly. I realize that approximately 18k pay student fees but those 18k don't show up every game. Let us also remember, the athletic fee of $738 per year paid by full time students (less for part timers) goes to more than just football.

As it stands right now, App probably has approximately 15-18k regular paying fans per game. An additional 7-10k fans paying $25 per ticket would bring in an additional $1mil+ in revenue each season. I'm not in the camp that wants to expand just for the sake of expanding. I'm firmly in the camp of improvements across the board as long as it does not increase the burden placed on students. I'd really like to see App be able to lower their fees regardless of what other universities/programs charge.

I'd like to see DG put together a master plan that could possibly give KBS 28k permanent seats with the ability to possibly go to 35k in the future. I'd also like to see most, if not all of it, paid for by private funds. Although, I could go along with financing if TPTB feel we can responsibly finance such a project without increasing what students currently pay. There is no better time than now to get a low interest loan.

Does anyone know how much debt is still owed on the last expansion? Looks like full time students pay $248 per year towards debt retirement. Bcoach, assuming it's possible, would you be ok with the idea of possibly refinancing the current debt while taking on new debt towards expansion/improvements if the debt retirement fee were to actually decrease to say $200-$220 per year?

As a rule I hate long term debt for things that don't appreciate but your idea is interesting. What I am really against is students and their parents paying for our recreation. If your idea would lessen that burden I am all for it. I also agree with your opinion on expansion. Improvements are great and needed but any large expansion is not a great idea in my opinion. I think we are on the same page.
I may have misunderstood you comment on the student seats. I was reading it that you were looking at those seats not producing income.

[moonshine]

Not at all. I realize those seats are paid for in advance. I was more pointing towards the seats that fans like us (not students) pay for. As far as my idea, while the yearly debt retirement fee might go down based on what students currently pay, it would extend that debt payment out more years.

I think we both have a similar outlook on how athletic advancement should be approached by the admin.

Just a quick example on my refi idea and I have no clue of the actual numbers but this will shed some light on the approach I'm proposing. Let's say the original debt was $45mil over 20 years at 5% and we're 9 years in. This would leave a balance of just over $30mil. If they can refi the $30mil and wrap it into a $51mil loan over 20 years at 3.5%, this essentially gives the AD $20+mil to work with without increasing the monthly payment. In this example, it would actually lower the monthly payment from $296,980 on the original $45mil loan to $295,779 a month on the $51mil loan. I realize this is a simplified example and a lot more goes into something of this nature. Just trying to provide some context to my idea.

[APPdiesel]

I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen the students between the 35's get displaced in the name of "premium seating". I LOVE that we still have students goal line to goal line. But in this day in age of "find ways to create more premium seats" I'm just surprised.

[AppinVA]

I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen the students between the 35's get displaced in the name of "premium seating". I LOVE that we still have students goal line to goal line. But in this day in age of "find ways to create more premium seats" I'm just surprised.

That's sacred to me. It's like our school's version of the Cameron Crazies. Our students deserve those seats.

[moonshine]

I agree, no touching the student section. I think that's one thing unique to App over many other programs. To be honest, I can't think of another program that has a student section that stretches the length of the field directly behind the home team's bench.

Premium seats be damned! I hope we, as fans/alums, never allow the AD to change the student section. Allow every future Mountaineer to experience game day the way we did while we were enrolled.

[Yosef84]

What good is 35k if it is 3/4 empty (Slight exaggeration) by the middle of the 3rd quarter? Obviously the revenue it brings, but I think most on here have an issue anytime there is aluminum showing. There tends to be a lot of aluminum midway through the third.

You answered your own question though. We pay the expenses based on ticket sales, so whether people stay the entire game is really not the driver for seating. I completely get the frustration. I know that the Idaho game was ridiculous. This is NOT a new issue though, and let's just remember that attendance and early exits are two separate issues.

[bcoach]

What good is 35k if it is 3/4 empty (Slight exaggeration) by the middle of the 3rd quarter? Obviously the revenue it brings, but I think most on here have an issue anytime there is aluminum showing. There tends to be a lot of aluminum midway through the third.

You answered your own question though. We pay the expenses based on ticket sales, so whether people stay the entire game is really not the driver for seating. I completely get the frustration. I know that the Idaho game was ridiculous. This is NOT a new issue though, and let's just remember that attendance and early exits are two separate issues.

This is a very good point. There are those of us who are pretty devoted fans and there are the more casual attendees. Do we hate the place starting to exit at half time and even some before that? Sure we do but we also need their money so it is just something we have to swallow to help pay the bills. Our hard core fan base is just not as large as we would like to think. It is my impression that sometimes we think that due to how well we travel we are larger than we really are. Our fan base will grow over time but in the mean time if they buy a ticket we need them and should welcome them. I will continue to look over and watch them leave and shake my head but also be glad they bought a ticket or paid their fees. With that said I think 35K is too much.

[bigdaddyg]

The more opinions that I read and the more I take in it has become obvious that there seems to be a magical KBS number- 35,000. I have used this number myself many times. It goes without saying the more butts we seat the more money we get. After reading the average attendance numbers for other programs I have now personally revised the number in my mind-30,000. If we can reach that average I don't think that would be too bad. A really good P5 home game like Wake will surely garner 35k which helps to absorb the 20k that comes with Thursday night games. I just can't see 35k at every game even if they are all Saturday at 3:30 in 70 degree, clear blue skies.