UCF

[GoBoone]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

The absolute best response to the sky is falling on the defense junk. Hate to let this thread sway from UCF talk but the defensive ranking numbers can be overblown. We were highly ranked last year sure but look at some of our opponents compared to the big boys. Is there a weighted defensive ranking out there that takes into consideration the strength of opponents? We racked up some hefty defensive numbers against several of the Sunbelt cupcakes. I am sure that this year there are plenty of G5 schools ranked ahead of the likes of Alabama for defense. Does that mean anything?

That's kind of my point. I'm not saying we don't need to improve on defense, but it is misleading to evaluate things in a vacuum. That applies to this year's D and that applies to the performance of Roof's Ds in the past. Defensive Rankings are an indicator but they are only meaningful in the context of the overall team stats. We have been scoring very quickly this year which keeps our D on the field more. That's skews the stats. We had this issue during our championship runs also when we had explosive teams. Everyone loves an explosive offense and aggressive play calling but as we play some of these teams like Lousiana, we might see Coach Drink looking more like Satterfield and taking a ball control approach in order to keep that UL offense (and our defense) off the field. People complained about Satterfield being too conservative at times and not letting Zac air it out, but it helped to create that high defensive ranking that we are now so proud of.

This!!

[AppGrad78]

Defensive starters
2018 New Orleans Bowl
Thomas, Josh
Cook, Noel
Davis-Gaither, Akeem
Stout, MyQuon
Flory, Anthony
Fehr, Jordan
Franklin, Desmond
Diarrassouba, Elijah
Willis, Chris
Duck, Clifton
Hayes, Tae

2019 vs. Coastal Carolina
Taylor, Demetrius
Blackstock, George
Diarrassouba, Elijah
Cook, Noel
Fehr, Jordan
Cobb, Trey
Davis-Gaither, Akeem
Jean-Charles, Shemar
Huff, Ryan
Thomas, Josh
Jones, Steven

first-year starters in red

[BeauFoster]

we currently rank 101st in time of possession at 27:54 per game. Last year at this time we averaged 30:18. More time for the defense to be on the field. Might be a significant stat I don't know.

We're throwing the ball more this year (I think, though I haven't statistically analyzed it), meaning we either stop the clock on incompletions or are scoring more quickly that a 10 run drive. As much fun as it is to watch us sling the ball 40 yards down the field and score in 3 plays, we may need to try to burn clock some to rest the defense and allow them to make adjustments on the sidelines.

It's probably pretty hard for players to provide feedback in 2 minutes before they have to go back out on the field.

[EastHallApp]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

Thanks for the research. A few issues:

The rankings you're citing refer to cumulative yards allowed for the season. That number is skewed in our favor because we've already had a bye week (so we've played one fewer game than many teams). Our actual rank in total defense yards PER GAME is 95th. (We're 81st in scoring defense.)

The teams above ranked on that basis, with a few editorial comments from me:

UCF - 37
Alabama - 38 (13th in scoring D)
Auburn - 33 (22nd in scoring D, and they've played Oregon, A&M and Miss. St.)
Louisiana - 48
Texas - 105 (62nd in scoring, lost to LSU, played Ok. St.)
UNC - 63 (sub-.500 record)
South Carolina - 67 (sub-.500 record)
GS - 89 (sub-.500 record)
Troy - 71 (.500 record, defense has been atrocious)
A-State - 124 (do they ever have a good defense?)

My broader point being, most of those teams have issues of their own, and just because their defenses are bad doesn't mean we should be fine with ours being bad.

[EastHallApp]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

The absolute best response to the sky is falling on the defense junk. Hate to let this thread sway from UCF talk but the defensive ranking numbers can be overblown. We were highly ranked last year sure but look at some of our opponents compared to the big boys. Is there a weighted defensive ranking out there that takes into consideration the strength of opponents? We racked up some hefty defensive numbers against several of the Sunbelt cupcakes. I am sure that this year there are plenty of G5 schools ranked ahead of the likes of Alabama for defense. Does that mean anything?

I too would like to see a kenpom-style efficiency rating system for football that accounts for strength of competition. I'm sure there must be one or more out there somewhere.

To your point about last year, though - that's an easier comparison to make. Last year neither UNCC nor Coastal scored an offensive TD on us. This year they both lit us up. Yes they may have both improved, but that much? Add in that UNC is not as good as Penn State and I'd say our competition level isn't significantly higher, if at all.

Another relevant stat: We're allowing 5.9 yards per play this year, compared to 4.4 last year.

[Yosef84]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

Thanks for the research. A few issues:

The rankings you're citing refer to cumulative yards allowed for the season. That number is skewed in our favor because we've already had a bye week (so we've played one fewer game than many teams). Our actual rank in total defense yards PER GAME is 95th. (We're 81st in scoring defense.)

The teams above ranked on that basis, with a few editorial comments from me:

UCF - 37
Alabama - 38 (13th in scoring D)
Auburn - 33 (22nd in scoring D, and they've played Oregon, A&M and Miss. St.)
Louisiana - 48
Texas - 105 (62nd in scoring, lost to LSU, played Ok. St.)
UNC - 63 (sub-.500 record)
South Carolina - 67 (sub-.500 record)
GS - 89 (sub-.500 record)
Troy - 71 (.500 record, defense has been atrocious)
A-State - 124 (do they ever have a good defense?)

My broader point being, most of those teams have issues of their own, and just because their defenses are bad doesn't mean we should be fine with ours being bad.

I think I made it pretty clear that we have some issues to work on. You actually made my point that these statistics have to be put into context before they are meaningful. That was precisely my point. We are 4-0 in a year where we have a coaching transition going on. We're inconsistent on D but we've seen reasons to be hopeful. The sky is NOT falling.

Personally, I don't believe we finish the season ranked in the 90's in D. I think it will be considerably better than that and I think we have an excellent year. With regard to those who insist on hanging on to their pre-disposition to the Roof hire, I also think I'll enjoy the season more than they will. Just a guess though.

[AppStFan1]

The argument that "we've replaced this number of defensive players before without dropping off before" is completely absurd. Sorry guys. We aren't Clemson, Alabama or Georgia. Replacing 4 or 5 starters (depending on how you choose to count them) is no small task. The fact it's been done in the past has nothing to do with anything. Those were different players, different coaches, and different opponents. But hey....I know..."you don't want to hear about how we lost Stout, Duck, etc. etc. etc."

OK, let's compare this defense to previous defenses. Last year's 4th ranked defense against Georgia Southern...let's talk about that. Brown was the DC. We lost Zac (not defense) but that changed things because the offense stalled out and left the D on the field. That's a factor you can't ignore. Then Fehr got ejected...ONE player. The combination....The GS offense that can't throw the ball if their life depends on it, runs up and down the field on us and we get embarrassed on national television by our primary rival one week after being ranked. Motivation wasn't an issue. Plenty of athletes! Holy Cow! I guess we should have fired Brown because he obviously couldn't make adjustments in that game. Obviously I'm not serious with that statement....but my point is that the facts are similar except there wasn't a pre-disposition against Brown.

Let's talk about the previous year. We had some injury issues which ultimately focused on the loss of Stringer. Suddenly our vaunted D can't stop UMass or ULM. TWO LOSSES IN A ROW! Those were LOSSES to INFERIOR teams! We had both Woody and Brown coaching on that staff. How could that be possible?

We were playing yesterday without our starting NG. I do think the rain delay hurt us on D. Coastal moved down the field on their first possession but we shut them down on the second. We had momentum and the break gave them a chance to re-group. Pierre Banks was talking about how it would hurt the D more than the O and he was obviously correct. It did look like we made adjustments and stopped them much better in the 2nd half.

Am I tickled to death with the D this year? No I'm not. I just don't pretend that there is one simple answer. Some of you obviously know more about football Xs and Os than I do but some of you are obviously trying to justify conclusions that were drawn long ago. I will enjoy this season as it unfolds and trust coach Drink. Personally, I don't believe Roof is a singular problem as he is being painted and I certainly don't believe he is going to defy the head coach. Coach Drink is a nice, amiable guy but I don't get the impression he is a patsy and this is HIS team.

Against GS, losing Fehr and Thomas was a big blow. The concern over us giving up so many points is a big deal now because we already know without Thomas we could see a game like that for sure.

The reason many of us are concerned with Roof is that he has never put up a great defense when he had control besides that one year at Auburn where they had everyone go to the NFL.

Losing Duck is not as big as many of our fans think. Duck was good but Hayes was the better corner last year. Ask any coach and they will tell you that. Stout was our biggest loss combined with the experience that both Duck and Hayes brought. There is no question that has hurt some. I don't think anyone would fail to acknowledge that.

When most were against the Roof hire in the preseason because of his past results you can't give him excuses all day long when this was the exact type of results we feared. I trust Drink 100% but I believe he is letting Roof do his thing and Drink is focusing on the offense.

Regardless of which player is the biggest loss or what calls Roof is making the bottom line is that we have to make adjustments, young guys better step up, and Thomas better stay healthy for us to go 1-0 every week.

I really do understand the concerns about the defense. I even share many of the concerns / frustrations. I'm just really worn out with the dogmatic drum beating on the cause. We are four games into this season. This junk started after game TWO. That's simply not a reasonable sample to base a conclusion on. The calls to fire Roof were premature and unreasonable then, and they still are. He is NOT going to be fired during the season, and there will be no public flogging to appease those who weren't pleased with the hiring. I would just like to give the entire coaching staff, including Roof, a chance to get things going. Frankly the offense took a couple of games to really start clicking. We all want to believe it was being reigned in intentionally but sometimes it just takes a few games for things to gel.

The team has a highly emotional game at UNC. They were playing a statistically strong team Saturday and a team that in fact HAS improved but, let's be honest....not a team that strikes fear into the Apps yet. Factor in the weather delays and I think it's possible the D was simply flat. D is the more emotional part of the game. Even the fans were impacted by the weather (fewer showed up and even fewer returned after the delay). It was a weird game in general and we won. I think a more collaborative process has already been implemented and I will choose to believe they will figure this out and get these guys focused for a strong Louisiana team that played us tough twice last year.

By the way, the NC team was not Roof's best D. His Auburn D's were ranked 76 and 53 in 2009 and 2010 respectively. His UCF D was ranked 9th in 2011. That's the highest rated D EVER at UCF by the way. UCF's Defensive ranking the past 3 years has been 41, 53, 36. Roof was also the DC at Penn State in 2012 and had a defensive ranked 16th.

My point is that he has, in fact, coach very successful defensive units at a very high level of competition.

I never called for him to go that quick. I did say if we struggle and don't improve that we should look at it after the season.

Go look at the talent on those defenses he had. Every player on Auburn got drafted and that Penn State defense was loaded as well.

People see coaches who have been at big time stops and then defend them when at a small school. There is a reason those coaches rose up to that level and that is that they were good coaches. However, there is also a reason they end up at App after being a DC at schools like those. That reason is probably some baggage and who knows maybe ego caused them to fall. Ego will destroy a man. It is not like we are paying him more than NC State was able to.

Haven't you or anyone else wondered why Roof left that payday at NC State and has not been picked up as DC of another P5 team? I mean UCF should be banging down the door to get him then. I hope he picks it up but I fear his best days are behind him. That's why I liked Brown so much more because I think his best days are now and in the next 10 years.

I do hope we start to see the turnaround. Other than ULL there is not a SBC team left on our schedule that we should not be able to keep under 24 points with our team speed.

[AppStFan1]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

Thanks for the research. A few issues:

The rankings you're citing refer to cumulative yards allowed for the season. That number is skewed in our favor because we've already had a bye week (so we've played one fewer game than many teams). Our actual rank in total defense yards PER GAME is 95th. (We're 81st in scoring defense.)

The teams above ranked on that basis, with a few editorial comments from me:

UCF - 37
Alabama - 38 (13th in scoring D)
Auburn - 33 (22nd in scoring D, and they've played Oregon, A&M and Miss. St.)
Louisiana - 48
Texas - 105 (62nd in scoring, lost to LSU, played Ok. St.)
UNC - 63 (sub-.500 record)
South Carolina - 67 (sub-.500 record)
GS - 89 (sub-.500 record)
Troy - 71 (.500 record, defense has been atrocious)
A-State - 124 (do they ever have a good defense?)

My broader point being, most of those teams have issues of their own, and just because their defenses are bad doesn't mean we should be fine with ours being bad.

I think I made it pretty clear that we have some issues to work on. You actually made my point that these statistics have to be put into context before they are meaningful. That was precisely my point. We are 4-0 in a year where we have a coaching transition going on. We're inconsistent on D but we've seen reasons to be hopeful. The sky is NOT falling.

Personally, I don't believe we finish the season ranked in the 90's in D. I think it will be considerably better than that and I think we have an excellent year. With regard to those who insist on hanging on to their pre-disposition to the Roof hire, I also think I'll enjoy the season more than they will. Just a guess though.

What if Drink was not the genius and we were only averaging 30 a game? If not for special teams and the offense playing out of their mind we may have two losses but as long as we win I'll enjoy it. I would just like to see our defense catch up soon.

The offense and special teams are playing like a top 25 team should. The defense is not yet. Can you imagine how scary we will be if the defense catches up a little?

[EastHallApp]

Here's a little perspective:
App state's Defensive ranking (total Defense per ESPN) is #68
A few other names you'll recognize:
UCF - #59
Alabama - #60
Auburn - #55
Louisiana - #72
Texas - #73
UNC - #90
South Carolina - #92
Georgia Southern - #64
Troy - #53
Arkansas State - #127

Thanks for the research. A few issues:

The rankings you're citing refer to cumulative yards allowed for the season. That number is skewed in our favor because we've already had a bye week (so we've played one fewer game than many teams). Our actual rank in total defense yards PER GAME is 95th. (We're 81st in scoring defense.)

The teams above ranked on that basis, with a few editorial comments from me:

UCF - 37
Alabama - 38 (13th in scoring D)
Auburn - 33 (22nd in scoring D, and they've played Oregon, A&M and Miss. St.)
Louisiana - 48
Texas - 105 (62nd in scoring, lost to LSU, played Ok. St.)
UNC - 63 (sub-.500 record)
South Carolina - 67 (sub-.500 record)
GS - 89 (sub-.500 record)
Troy - 71 (.500 record, defense has been atrocious)
A-State - 124 (do they ever have a good defense?)

My broader point being, most of those teams have issues of their own, and just because their defenses are bad doesn't mean we should be fine with ours being bad.

I think I made it pretty clear that we have some issues to work on. You actually made my point that these statistics have to be put into context before they are meaningful. That was precisely my point. We are 4-0 in a year where we have a coaching transition going on. We're inconsistent on D but we've seen reasons to be hopeful. The sky is NOT falling.

Personally, I don't believe we finish the season ranked in the 90's in D. I think it will be considerably better than that and I think we have an excellent year. With regard to those who insist on hanging on to their pre-disposition to the Roof hire, I also think I'll enjoy the season more than they will. Just a guess though.

Well then you're welcome for the additional context.

I think you and I are pretty close in our view of where the team is right now.

[Yosef84]

AppStFan1,
I intentionally didn't respond to anybody's post because I was referring to a collection of individuals who have been calling for Roof's firing. You chose to respond to my post, so I wasn't implying you personally had said anything. Let's not take this personally.

Your arguments are pretty circular though. Roof was only successful previously because of the talent on those squads. That could be said about absolutely any highly ranked squad ever. Regardless, you then turn around and reference Drink as a "genius" for his success with our completely loaded offense (10 returning starters). I'm absolutely a Drink supporter, but if he gets credit for his offensive performance this year, doesn't Roof get credit for his Defensive performances in the past when he inherited talent?

It's not hard to see why Roof left NCSU. He wasn't the DC there. He took the position as a Defensive Assistant at NCSU after being let go by Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech (a year before he himself was let go). Let's not imply we're stupid just because we conclude differently than you do. Coaching is a fickle job. When you aren't the head coach, you're often not the master of your own destiny. I know he got hired at Penn State just in time for a bunch of junk to hit the fan there and nobody would blame him for wanting out. He was at Georgia Tech for 5 years (Average ranking of his Defenses was 46 which significantly exceeds the average of other DCs there...Woody was 78 the following year).

You imply ego is his problem. I honestly don't know. I don't know the man personally. Do you? Honest question.

[Stonewall]

Paul Johnson retired. He wasn't "let go" , in the negative sense. Anyway , it's Drink's team , he hired the staff and is responsible for their performance.

[Yosef84]

Paul Johnson retired. He wasn't "let go" , in the negative sense. Anyway , it's Drink's team , he hired the staff and is responsible for their performance.

The first part of your statement is correct in the technical sense. I stand corrected. We all know how that works. I completely agree with your second statement.

[Stonewall]

Paul Johnson retired. He wasn't "let go" , in the negative sense. Anyway , it's Drink's team , he hired the staff and is responsible for their performance.

The first part of your statement is correct in the technical sense. I stand corrected. We all know how that works. I completely agree with your second statement.

Fair enough. I frankly do not know if he [PJ] was under pressure.

[Mjohn1988]

Since this turned into a App defense thread I’ll ask a question to you guys. So Drink is a great offensive guy. Many have suggested that he doesn’t know enough or care enough about defense to fix our problems on that side of the ball. Two questions, how can a coach be a great offensive coordinator and not know how defense works and how can a head coach not care enough to fix what’s wrong with any part of the team. To be clear I’m not accusing Drink of not caring about the D, but some have suggested just that. What I really don’t get is how a coach could completely understand how to beat a defense and not know how to make a defense better.

[AppSt94]

It’s a fair question and the answer is that he does understand defense. He has to in order to develop an efficient offense. I wouldn’t put much stock in some of these comments that are clearly made with the heart and not the head. I don’t know that the defense needs fixing. What I mean by that, is that just like the offense, I doubt that we have seen all of the defensive packages yet. I also don’t know that the coaches have felt like they have needed to make the adjustments in game. I don’t know that I would agree with that stance, but it isn’t my call and I can understand the rationale if it is the case. With the proficiency of our offense, a lead that takes two possessions for the opponont to overcome becomes less of a concern as time is ticking down. So why show a future opponent how you will counter an attack? There are a lot of moving parts that have to work together and we had some key losses from last years team that we appreciate what they did, but we don’t necessarily see what they allowed us to do.

[Yosef84]

I agree with AppSt94 that Drink clearly understands plenty about the defensive side of the ball. He couldn't teach QBs how to read a D or generally develop an effective offense without understanding defense. I'm not sure I've specifically seen anyone say that he doesn't care about defense but that would be a completely ludicrous statement about any coach. No competent coach would ever ignore any phase of the game. I did see a post where someone said that Drink "prefers to strip the ball rather than make the stop" and I don't believe that statement either. Always have to take message boards with a grain of salt.

[Mjohn1988]

I like to see our D going after the ball. That’s something we never did in the past

[Yosef84]

I like to see our D going after the ball. That’s something we never did in the past

Going for the strip is great, especially in specific situations where we absolutely need the ball back, but making the stop is priority #1

[Mjohn1988]

I like to see our D going after the ball. That’s something we never did in the past

Going for the strip is great, especially in specific situations where we absolutely need the ball back, but making the stop is priority #1

Can’t agree more, the stop is first but in the past I don’t remember seeing our guys go after the ball. DT was going after the ball when he got fumbles from UNCC and UNC. Sometimes guys just make a good hit and the ball comes out but in both of those game changing plays the ball was purposely taken.

[EastHallApp]

I like to see our D going after the ball. That’s something we never did in the past

Are you just referring to forcing fumbles? Because we were in the top 15 nationally in INTs each of the last four seasons.