Jordan Fehr

[EastHallApp]

Just to be really, really, really, clear, my original question had nothing to do with this conversation. I simply and sincerely just have not been able to understand how a guy who has performed like Jordan and has the reported mesurables he has, hasn’t gotten any NFL buzz.

He has some buzz, that's why he was invited to the NFLPA game. A lot of time, these G5 guys won't get a lot of articles written up about them, but that doesn't mean the NFL scouts aren't noticing. It just seems worse since ADG was getting a lot of attention this year, but rightfully so. His play from the OLB position was superb and showed up even beyond his stats. Fehr has had a lot of great moments in his career too, so he will get his shot to make a team. Gaither's size and back to back superb seasons is what put him on the national map this year.

Dude your post have been all over the place on this one. Your first post says Fehr’s “tangibles don’t translate to the NFL game.” Now your saying Gathers size is a plus for him. Everything I’ve heard about Gather says that the one question with him is his size.

Sorry, was typing while walking around Carowinds...was supposed to say Speed, not size. I’ll fix it

It’s all good, I’m just trying to find stuff to talk about until September. I need to ban myself from the Cabin for at least a couple of months. Walking around Carowinds on the message board, thanks for letting me know somebody has it worse than I do.

Exciting news: App has a basketball team now!

[Mjohn1988]

He has some buzz, that's why he was invited to the NFLPA game. A lot of time, these G5 guys won't get a lot of articles written up about them, but that doesn't mean the NFL scouts aren't noticing. It just seems worse since ADG was getting a lot of attention this year, but rightfully so. His play from the OLB position was superb and showed up even beyond his stats. Fehr has had a lot of great moments in his career too, so he will get his shot to make a team. Gaither's size and back to back superb seasons is what put him on the national map this year.

Dude your post have been all over the place on this one. Your first post says Fehr’s “tangibles don’t translate to the NFL game.” Now your saying Gathers size is a plus for him. Everything I’ve heard about Gather says that the one question with him is his size.

Sorry, was typing while walking around Carowinds...was supposed to say Speed, not size. I’ll fix it

It’s all good, I’m just trying to find stuff to talk about until September. I need to ban myself from the Cabin for at least a couple of months. Walking around Carowinds on the message board, thanks for letting me know somebody has it worse than I do.

Exciting news: App has a basketball team now!

I know, I really should get involved in more than football.

[ericsaid]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

[AppStFan1]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

Fehr won't get drafted unless he runs a 4.5 or better. A 4.65-4.75 will mean PFA for sure. I think he makes a practice squad at least though.

[bettysburner]

I could tell you....but it's not politically correct

I'm appalled that you would think he's not getting hype simply because he is blonde. Disgusting.

[Yosef84]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

[Yosef84]

Fehr’s stats are similar to ADG’s, he’s bigger, and his reported run/jump/lift numbers are fantastic. Obviously there are several posts here suggesting (some intentionally, some otherwise) that he’s undervalued because he’s white, but that’s silly and not even a stereotype that applies to linebackers.

To me the big question is whether his workout numbers are inflated, and if so to what extent. Obviously there’s no question about his productivity.

You are right. I'd be surprised if he runs a sub 4.5. He has some good lateral quickness, which would matter to me more, but I just don't see a sub 4.5. I am a fairly big guy and I used to run track and could pull a sub 4.3 at my best. I was no where near as heavy in the legs and feet as Fehr, which would make it tough for him to put up that kind of speed. It's the same problem I see with Henni, who has great hands, but heavy feet. Race has nothing to do with it. But I am rooting hard for both of them, they are outstanding kids.

So can any of you guys tell me why you question the numbers?

Timed speed and game speed are different. Many players don't run as fast in pads as they do in shorts. It is just a fact. Some do but not all. Fehr runs well but Gaither is considered a 4.5 guy and he is definitely faster than Fehr. So if Fehr runs a 4.50 40 then Gaither should run a 4.40. Fehr just does not look like a 4.4 guy in games. He has good speed but 4.4 is elite. Dexter Coakley ran a 4.4 and there is no way that Fehr can run with him.

That's true, but the times being thrown around for comparison purposes are always "timed speeds." I will be interested in seeing how he does on Pro Day. I just have a feeling he will do well....and ADG also. I think they will both represent App well. ADG seems to be a true gamer. Fehr strikes me as being incredibly reliable / consistent. Different styles but both have a place and can do well at the next level.

[AppStFan1]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

I'm not sure what he means but as many tackles as he makes he misses some. I have seen him get lost in traffic as well. Fehr is not slow by any means on the field but I don't think his play speed matches his time speed. It is like Boggs played like a 4.9 guy but ran high 4.7s. Some guys time faster than they play. Play speed is what really matters.

[AppStFan1]

Fehr’s stats are similar to ADG’s, he’s bigger, and his reported run/jump/lift numbers are fantastic. Obviously there are several posts here suggesting (some intentionally, some otherwise) that he’s undervalued because he’s white, but that’s silly and not even a stereotype that applies to linebackers.

To me the big question is whether his workout numbers are inflated, and if so to what extent. Obviously there’s no question about his productivity.

You are right. I'd be surprised if he runs a sub 4.5. He has some good lateral quickness, which would matter to me more, but I just don't see a sub 4.5. I am a fairly big guy and I used to run track and could pull a sub 4.3 at my best. I was no where near as heavy in the legs and feet as Fehr, which would make it tough for him to put up that kind of speed. It's the same problem I see with Henni, who has great hands, but heavy feet. Race has nothing to do with it. But I am rooting hard for both of them, they are outstanding kids.

So can any of you guys tell me why you question the numbers?

Timed speed and game speed are different. Many players don't run as fast in pads as they do in shorts. It is just a fact. Some do but not all. Fehr runs well but Gaither is considered a 4.5 guy and he is definitely faster than Fehr. So if Fehr runs a 4.50 40 then Gaither should run a 4.40. Fehr just does not look like a 4.4 guy in games. He has good speed but 4.4 is elite. Dexter Coakley ran a 4.4 and there is no way that Fehr can run with him.

That's true, but the times being thrown around for comparison purposes are always "timed speeds." I will be interested in seeing how he does on Pro Day. I just have a feeling he will do well....and ADG also. I think they will both represent App well. ADG seems to be a true gamer. Fehr strikes me as being incredibly reliable / consistent. Different styles but both have a place and can do well at the next level.

Both are suppose to have good pro days. Gaither plays much faster on the field and is a smoother athlete. I feel like Fehr plays 4.65-4.70 fast but we will see what he times.

The issues for Fehr on the field are that he is not great in pass coverage. He gets lost in traffic sometimes. He is tight in his drop backs and not very smooth. Better in the box and has the range to make stops sideline to sideline. On the second series against UAB there was a play where he dropped into coverage and did not look athletic in space and misses the tackle initially but does not give up and helps take the guy down. He is tough and makes plays though and I do think he makes a roster.

[AppDub]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

Fehr won't get drafted unless he runs a 4.5 or better. A 4.65-4.75 will mean PFA for sure. I think he makes a practice squad at least though.

Very similar player to A.J. Klein and he seems to have made out alright in the NFL.

Klein is 6 feet 1 inch. Ran a 4.66 out of college. Scouting reports said he lacked straight line and recovery speed. Sound familiar?

[appstatealum]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

NFL Speed. Most of us casual fans simply don't understand the speed at which the NFL is played. Linebackers have to be freaks more than any other position to handle the versatility of responsibilities. Like what has been mentioned, if he can run a 4.40 or something in that range, he will absolutely make a team and possibly get drafted. As hype as everyone is on Gaither, I'm concerned about his hips and how much weight he can put on. Both of them are extremely intelligent players, Gaither has the edge on explosiveness and Fehr has the edge on size/strength. The NFL is looking for speed and explosiveness and then frames they can build NFL muscle on. They rarely take chances on size/strength only unless you are a lineman or something.

[AppStFan1]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

Fehr won't get drafted unless he runs a 4.5 or better. A 4.65-4.75 will mean PFA for sure. I think he makes a practice squad at least though.

Very similar player to A.J. Klein and he seems to have made out alright in the NFL.

Klein is 6 feet 1 inch. Ran a 4.66 out of college. Scouting reports said he lacked straight line and recovery speed. Sound familiar?

That's why I think Fehr can make a team because there are some like him out there in the NFL.

[AppStFan1]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

NFL Speed. Most of us casual fans simply don't understand the speed at which the NFL is played. Linebackers have to be freaks more than any other position to handle the versatility of responsibilities. Like what has been mentioned, if he can run a 4.40 or something in that range, he will absolutely make a team and possibly get drafted. As hype as everyone is on Gaither, I'm concerned about his hips and how much weight he can put on. Both of them are extremely intelligent players, Gaither has the edge on explosiveness and Fehr has the edge on size/strength. The NFL is looking for speed and explosiveness and then frames they can build NFL muscle on. They rarely take chances on size/strength only unless you are a lineman or something.

That is the big question for people with Gaither. Thin hips and lacks the frame to ideally add another 15-20 pounds. If he is say 6'1 or 6'2 205-210 range he may have to be a hybrid. Gaither can answer some of those questions at the Senior Bowl.

[appstatealum]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

Fehr won't get drafted unless he runs a 4.5 or better. A 4.65-4.75 will mean PFA for sure. I think he makes a practice squad at least though.

Very similar player to A.J. Klein and he seems to have made out alright in the NFL.

Klein is 6 feet 1 inch. Ran a 4.66 out of college. Scouting reports said he lacked straight line and recovery speed. Sound familiar?

There are always exceptions, but it's an uphill battle for players like that.

Professional sports is a small mountain top and it takes a lot to be the small percentage that reach the top. I played hockey growing up and at 6'3 215, I had the size and speed to dominate each level I played at. Once I started scrimmaging with some college guys and low level pros, I remember being surprised by how everyone was playing at my speed. I decided not to move up north to pursue a scholarship, but it made me realize the "funnel" of talent that these athletes go through to reach these professional levels. You see it in the recruiting films for these kids, we all see how they dominate their fellow high schools, but when they make it to the collegiate level, they are playing with/against guys that all were just as good. The jump from college to NFL is even bigger.

[AppDub]

Bottom line is this: if Fehr runs a 4.6 - 4.75 (at minimum), while measuring in at 6'1 1/2 to 6'3 while weighing 230 pounds, he will be either drafted or a priority undrafted free agent. His straight line speed and quickness really showed against UAB when it looked like the running back had space to get up field and Fehr, from 25 yards out, just closes like a lioness (male lions don't usually hunt) on a baby gazelle.

Fehr won't get drafted unless he runs a 4.5 or better. A 4.65-4.75 will mean PFA for sure. I think he makes a practice squad at least though.

Very similar player to A.J. Klein and he seems to have made out alright in the NFL.

Klein is 6 feet 1 inch. Ran a 4.66 out of college. Scouting reports said he lacked straight line and recovery speed. Sound familiar?

There are always exceptions, but it's an uphill battle for players like that.

Professional sports is a small mountain top and it takes a lot to be the small percentage that reach the top. I played hockey growing up and at 6'3 215, I had the size and speed to dominate each level I played at. Once I started scrimmaging with some college guys and low level pros, I remember being surprised by how everyone was playing at my speed. I decided not to move up north to pursue a scholarship, but it made me realize the "funnel" of talent that these athletes go through to reach these professional levels. You see it in the recruiting films for these kids, we all see how they dominate their fellow high schools, but when they make it to the collegiate level, they are playing with/against guys that all were just as good. The jump from college to NFL is even bigger.

All fair points and pretty obvious to most of us. Just saying it's not outside the realm of possibility that he makes it. Bothers me when fans make a call on a guys career before it even gets started. That's not directed at you personally, just a general observation. I dont know the kid personally, but would love to see him get an opportunity.

[bigdaddyg]

I believe that in the NFL (football in general) there are certain positions in which heart and hustle trump size and speed. Linebacker might epitomize these aspects the most. Generally you don’t see undersized linemen who play at the highest level. Occasionally a speed rusher who is considered undersized sometimes is successful. You typically don’t find slow corners and safeties make rosters but guys who are considered too small or slow play linebacker all the time. Both of our guys might need to be in the right place at the right time and just get lucky. I’m sure that there are plenty of guys who are pretty much the same size as both our guys with basically the same stats and abilities.

[appstatealum]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

NFL Speed. Most of us casual fans simply don't understand the speed at which the NFL is played. Linebackers have to be freaks more than any other position to handle the versatility of responsibilities. Like what has been mentioned, if he can run a 4.40 or something in that range, he will absolutely make a team and possibly get drafted. As hype as everyone is on Gaither, I'm concerned about his hips and how much weight he can put on. Both of them are extremely intelligent players, Gaither has the edge on explosiveness and Fehr has the edge on size/strength. The NFL is looking for speed and explosiveness and then frames they can build NFL muscle on. They rarely take chances on size/strength only unless you are a lineman or something.

That is the big question for people with Gaither. Thin hips and lacks the frame to ideally add another 15-20 pounds. If he is say 6'1 or 6'2 205-210 range he may have to be a hybrid. Gaither can answer some of those questions at the Senior Bowl.

I've met and spoke to Gaither a dozen times, he is every bit of 6'2 and definitely hovering around that 205-210 range. I think he can put on another 10lbs or so. DiMarco is going to be the one to look out for, he has the frame to put on some good weight and he has some elite speed. I'll be interested to see his progression this year with an elevated role now that Fehr and Akeem are gone. Fehr is a large kid, but he has heavy feet and I just don't see him being able to run under a 4.5. I hope he does other things to impress a team. Josh Thomas should get a few looks, he gets lost sometimes.but has done enough over the last two seasons to show a nice mix of speed and strength at the safety position.

For next year, Sutton will be in the same spot as Gaither. He will start getting attention from NFL scouts early and should have a chance at the senior bowl. He is just shy of 6'3, has good size with potential to build more muscle, and can run a sub 4.4. His game speed has been proven and what always stands out to me is his ability to alude tackles/YAC yards, body control/balance, and route running. I honestly feel like he could be one of the better App players to ever play at the next level if he stays healthy. Hennigan has elite hands, perhaps some of the best I've seen since Fowlkes, but Henni has thick ankles and he won't test well in measurables. I hope he gets a camp and someone falls in love with his IQ and hands. Virg has a decent frame and has elite speed, he should get a look based on Pro Day numbers. His hips are a little too stiff to be a slot guy, which is where he would need to be to thrive in the NFL.

[appstatealum]

I believe that in the NFL (football in general) there are certain positions in which heart and hustle trump size and speed. Linebacker might epitomize these aspects the most. Generally you don’t see undersized linemen who play at the highest level. Occasionally a speed rusher who is considered undersized sometimes is successful. You typically don’t find slow corners and safeties make rosters but guys who are considered too small or slow play linebacker all the time. Both of our guys might need to be in the right place at the right time and just get lucky. I’m sure that there are plenty of guys who are pretty much the same size as both our guys with basically the same stats and abilities.

Agree. Fehr's sideline to sideline quickness matched with his pro size could be an X Factor in getting him a long look from a few teams. But a lot of teams won't do their homework on a guy if the proday measurables aren't there, which is unfortunate.

[AppStFan1]

Fehr has the IQ and intangibles, but his tangibles don't translate to the NFL game. He is a great kid though.

I'm another who doesn't quite understand that. Can you help me understand how a guy who was listed as one of the 50 "Freak Athletes" in college football doesn't have tangibles that suit him for the NFL? He's not huge, but has ok size, and speed and strength certainly seem to meet NFL standards. What tangibles are lacking?

NFL Speed. Most of us casual fans simply don't understand the speed at which the NFL is played. Linebackers have to be freaks more than any other position to handle the versatility of responsibilities. Like what has been mentioned, if he can run a 4.40 or something in that range, he will absolutely make a team and possibly get drafted. As hype as everyone is on Gaither, I'm concerned about his hips and how much weight he can put on. Both of them are extremely intelligent players, Gaither has the edge on explosiveness and Fehr has the edge on size/strength. The NFL is looking for speed and explosiveness and then frames they can build NFL muscle on. They rarely take chances on size/strength only unless you are a lineman or something.

That is the big question for people with Gaither. Thin hips and lacks the frame to ideally add another 15-20 pounds. If he is say 6'1 or 6'2 205-210 range he may have to be a hybrid. Gaither can answer some of those questions at the Senior Bowl.

I've met and spoke to Gaither a dozen times, he is every bit of 6'2 and definitely hovering around that 205-210 range. I think he can put on another 10lbs or so. DiMarco is going to be the one to look out for, he has the frame to put on some good weight and he has some elite speed. I'll be interested to see his progression this year with an elevated role now that Fehr and Akeem are gone. Fehr is a large kid, but he has heavy feet and I just don't see him being able to run under a 4.5. I hope he does other things to impress a team. Josh Thomas should get a few looks, he gets lost sometimes.but has done enough over the last two seasons to show a nice mix of speed and strength at the safety position.

For next year, Sutton will be in the same spot as Gaither. He will start getting attention from NFL scouts early and should have a chance at the senior bowl. He is just shy of 6'3, has good size with potential to build more muscle, and can run a sub 4.4. His game speed has been proven and what always stands out to me is his ability to alude tackles/YAC yards, body control/balance, and route running. I honestly feel like he could be one of the better App players to ever play at the next level if he stays healthy. Hennigan has elite hands, perhaps some of the best I've seen since Fowlkes, but Henni has thick ankles and he won't test well in measurables. I hope he gets a camp and someone falls in love with his IQ and hands. Virg has a decent frame and has elite speed, he should get a look based on Pro Day numbers. His hips are a little too stiff to be a slot guy, which is where he would need to be to thrive in the NFL.

Yes Fehr is not quick twitch enough. I thought Gaither is 6'2 but I know the NFL estimated him at 6'1 1/4. He did not run at the junior pro day, which I wish he would have.

Jackson, Cobb, and Hampton are the 3 I have my eye on most but honestly all those guys are gonna be good. I do think Jackson and Hampton might be the two best for the NFL down the line though.

Josh Thomas will get looks. He should be a PFA as long as he tests well.

I'm with you on Sutton but people think he runs 4.50-4.55 range. His speed will be key but he too will be a draftable guy and Senior Bowl candidate.

I thought the same thing on Hennigan. Someone will sign him and he will have a good shot to make it because of his hands, toughness, and routes. He just isn't very fast in terms of deep speed and he isn't twitchy at all. He just makes catches and picks up yards though.

Virgil definitely has to get more oily in the hips. That speed alone though will get him looks with his size. I do wish he had the hands and route running of Hennigan. He would be special then. He has the one thing Hennigan does not have... blazing speed.

[appstatealum]

I've been hearing Corey has been working with track guys pre-injury and he can post a sub 4.4 number. He has proven to have a nice burst in the games and seperation speed on deep routes... He has a lot of things lining up to be special if he recovers nicely from his injury. Word is he had a lingering MCL issue dating back to KState and they went ahead and cleared that up while repairing his ACL. He may come back even better.