Dave Clawson Smack Talking

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NavyApp
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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by NavyApp » Mon May 25, 2020 5:52 pm

Rekdiver wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:07 pm
Listen....Charlotte still talks smack....
Clausen plays us. He gets props from me.
You give him "props" but misspell his name....


FREQS AND GEEKS!

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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by JTApps1 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:29 am

Imagine the wins TL would have had if Chandler Staton was his teammate.


When will "It's better than what we had" no longer be good enough for App State?

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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am

Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue May 26, 2020 8:22 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am
Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?
Rubino was a scholarship recruit. Not sure if we're including punters, but I believe Xavier Subotsch may have been as well. But they have been the exceptions, at least in recent years.

I think the answer is that the coaches feel they can bring in good enough kickers as PWOs (or just regular walk-ons) and then put them on scholarship once they've won the starting job. The flip side being that we don't get stuck with a backup kicker tying up a scholarship for multiple years if it doesn't work out.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by The Rock » Tue May 26, 2020 8:57 am

That is the frustrating thing about it. Rubino was the first recruited kicker I can remember. I feel bad for him, but the UT and Wake losses are on him.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by kornegaylw » Tue May 26, 2020 9:45 am

AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:30 pm
kornegaylw wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm
Apple@chin1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:01 pm


Put Zac Thomas behind center in ‘17 and the game isn’t even close. No disrespect to Taylor Lamb, but, he’s no Zac.
Lamb didnt have the arm strength or running speed that ZT does but in no way was he a step down from ZT. I never feared him throwing the ball. Of the 3 best QBs we've had (Armanti, Lamb & ZT) I think it really depends on the scheme you want to run which QB you pick. You cant go wrong with any of them though.
Let me ask you a question. When you are picking the best QB that gives you the most options? You want the guy with the most ability who can run the fastest, accurate, strongest arm, etc. Right? You said ZT is better than Lamb in those regards so ZT is the better player.

You are having trouble admitting it because Lamb won so many games but he is not as good of a player as ZT is and AE was. If we were in FCS right now then I would have no issue with putting all 3 names in a hat and going with it but with where we are now ZT and AE are the better players. Lamb was a great Sun Belt QB but I would take Thomas and Edwards both to the ACC and roll. Both showed they can beat those caliber of teams. That is something Lamb was never able to do. Lamb can beat Texas State by 30 but never saw him beat the Big Ten, SEC, and ACC. AE and ZT both did it.

Ask any coach on talent and they want the player with the most upside. Lamb did not have much upside. He was a very smart, savvy, and productive college player who did well against the G5 and FCS but he was not a P5 caliber player who was going to get you the wins to be a top 25 team like AE and ZT can.
I probably am a bit blinded by Lambs success and I do agree that AE & ZT are better athletes. I'd argue though that on the FCS level with AE & now in the SB with ZT both had/have a higher caliber of talent compared to our opponents than TL did. (not saying the teams TL were on weren't talented)...deep down and without emotion I do agree he is the 3rd best QB.

I'd also like to point out that if it weren't for Rubino missed field goals at Tennessee and Wake TL would have victories over both of them.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by Rekdiver » Tue May 26, 2020 9:54 am

NavyApp wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:52 pm
Rekdiver wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:07 pm
Listen....Charlotte still talks smack....
Clausen plays us. He gets props from me.
You give him "props" but misspell his name....
Oh well....



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 am

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:22 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am
Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?
Rubino was a scholarship recruit. Not sure if we're including punters, but I believe Xavier Subotsch may have been as well. But they have been the exceptions, at least in recent years.

I think the answer is that the coaches feel they can bring in good enough kickers as PWOs (or just regular walk-ons) and then put them on scholarship once they've won the starting job. The flip side being that we don't get stuck with a backup kicker tying up a scholarship for multiple years if it doesn't work out.
I get that, but kickers change and win or lose games all the time. I can’t believe going after place kickers and even punters with scholarships isn’t worth the risk. But there’s plenty I don’t know.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:39 am

kornegaylw wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:45 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:30 pm
kornegaylw wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm
Apple@chin1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:01 pm


Put Zac Thomas behind center in ‘17 and the game isn’t even close. No disrespect to Taylor Lamb, but, he’s no Zac.
Lamb didnt have the arm strength or running speed that ZT does but in no way was he a step down from ZT. I never feared him throwing the ball. Of the 3 best QBs we've had (Armanti, Lamb & ZT) I think it really depends on the scheme you want to run which QB you pick. You cant go wrong with any of them though.
Let me ask you a question. When you are picking the best QB that gives you the most options? You want the guy with the most ability who can run the fastest, accurate, strongest arm, etc. Right? You said ZT is better than Lamb in those regards so ZT is the better player.

You are having trouble admitting it because Lamb won so many games but he is not as good of a player as ZT is and AE was. If we were in FCS right now then I would have no issue with putting all 3 names in a hat and going with it but with where we are now ZT and AE are the better players. Lamb was a great Sun Belt QB but I would take Thomas and Edwards both to the ACC and roll. Both showed they can beat those caliber of teams. That is something Lamb was never able to do. Lamb can beat Texas State by 30 but never saw him beat the Big Ten, SEC, and ACC. AE and ZT both did it.

Ask any coach on talent and they want the player with the most upside. Lamb did not have much upside. He was a very smart, savvy, and productive college player who did well against the G5 and FCS but he was not a P5 caliber player who was going to get you the wins to be a top 25 team like AE and ZT can.
I probably am a bit blinded by Lambs success and I do agree that AE & ZT are better athletes. I'd argue though that on the FCS level with AE & now in the SB with ZT both had/have a higher caliber of talent compared to our opponents than TL did. (not saying the teams TL were on weren't talented)...deep down and without emotion I do agree he is the 3rd best QB.

I'd also like to point out that if it weren't for Rubino missed field goals at Tennessee and Wake TL would have victories over both of them.
Lamb had a little bit better talent from top to bottom than AE. AE was so good he made our OL look great when we really only had 1 stud and a 2nd player who was pretty good. We ran a system and had a QB that allowed many to look even better than they were. A lot of the players we had during Lamb's last year returned for Thomas and they did very well. In terms of talent the QB position caught up to what we had on the rest of the field.

You can point out the missed field goals and that is valid but I could also say that if Taylor had a stronger arm that Sutton would not have picked him off at Tennessee and maybe we keep driving. Our playcalling was more limited under Taylor because of the lack of tools and we had no margin for error to beat those teams. Had Zac or AE been the QB I think we would have won both games even with the missed field goals. It probably does not even come down to that.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:41 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 am
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:22 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am
Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?
Rubino was a scholarship recruit. Not sure if we're including punters, but I believe Xavier Subotsch may have been as well. But they have been the exceptions, at least in recent years.

I think the answer is that the coaches feel they can bring in good enough kickers as PWOs (or just regular walk-ons) and then put them on scholarship once they've won the starting job. The flip side being that we don't get stuck with a backup kicker tying up a scholarship for multiple years if it doesn't work out.
I get that, but kickers change and win or lose games all the time. I can’t believe going after place kickers and even punters with scholarships isn’t worth the risk. But there’s plenty I don’t know.
The premise is right and if they weren't so inconsistent in terms of mental stability then I think more schools would. We have signed some to partial or full rides who did not pan out while walk-ons got chances in the NFL. You really never know with kickers. I like giving a scholarship to one here and there but coaches have had so much success with walk-ons and just giving them a scholarship after they prove themselves that many figure go after another linemen or QB and just reward the kicker who earns it.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by Yosef84 » Tue May 26, 2020 11:05 am

I understand that, at the end of the game Rubino got a field goal attempt blocked and therefore we lost by one point. That said, if I had to point to ONE play (it's NEVER just one play) that cost App that game, it was the off sides penalty on the punt that gave Wake the ball back. If that didn't happen, App kills the clock....possibly even scores again and Wake never takes the lead in the first place. What makes it even more painful is that it was called on a player who lined up off sides but wasn't even going to rush the kicker. He was dropping into coverage!



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 am

Yosef84 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:05 am
I understand that, at the end of the game Rubino got a field goal attempt blocked and therefore we lost by one point. That said, if I had to point to ONE play (it's NEVER just one play) that cost App that game, it was the off sides penalty on the punt that gave Wake the ball back. If that didn't happen, App kills the clock....possibly even scores again and Wake never takes the lead in the first place. What makes it even more painful is that it was called on a player who lined up off sides but wasn't even going to rush the kicker. He was dropping into coverage!
You can't always blame just one play for sure. Depending on how good your QB is you have a bigger margin for error. Against P5 schools we were a little behind in QB talent so we did not have that margin for error. We made a lot of errors against SC and UNC and still won. Even had double digits leads at points of the game. There is no question to me that ZT and AE give us a better chance of winning. I would only take Lamb over Joe Burchette because he was a harder worker and did not underachieve at App. Burchette had way more arm talent than Lamb but never progressed like he should have. If he had wanted the NFL badly he could have been a draft pick and played 5-10 years but just was too lazy. I am glad we had Lamb but also glad we got a guy the caliber of ZT and hope we have someone as good or better to replace him. That is the caliber, or better, that we need to pull of P5 wins and have any margin for error.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by AppinVA » Tue May 26, 2020 12:47 pm

Lamb was exactly what we needed at the time. He was a winner. A winner who put us on a track so we may go to the next level under Thomas — and though some may laugh at this phrase — and “do it better than it has ever been done before”. He had full support of the locker room, and was an extension of Satt on the field. Without Lamb, I don’t think we are where we are today.


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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by EastHallApp » Tue May 26, 2020 1:19 pm

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 am
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:22 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am
Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?
Rubino was a scholarship recruit. Not sure if we're including punters, but I believe Xavier Subotsch may have been as well. But they have been the exceptions, at least in recent years.

I think the answer is that the coaches feel they can bring in good enough kickers as PWOs (or just regular walk-ons) and then put them on scholarship once they've won the starting job. The flip side being that we don't get stuck with a backup kicker tying up a scholarship for multiple years if it doesn't work out.
I get that, but kickers change and win or lose games all the time. I can’t believe going after place kickers and even punters with scholarships isn’t worth the risk. But there’s plenty I don’t know.
I agree with you in general. I just don't see it as much of a worry for us because by and large we've had good success with our current model of putting them on scholarship once they've won the job. (The biggest kicking issues in recent years being with the one recruit who came in on scholarship.) If we were constantly struggling with subpar kickers and punters, that would be different.

I do wonder how Bama always has pros 3-deep at every spot yet seemingly never has a competent kicker.



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Re: Dave Clawson Smack Talking

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 2:19 pm

EastHallApp wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:19 pm
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 am
EastHallApp wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:22 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:14 am
Ok, since this has moved to talking about kickers maybe some of you guys can help me out, or tell me I’m wrong on a question. Kickers are extremely important but I don’t think I’ve ever seen us offer a scholarship to an incoming freshman kicker. Am I correct and if so why not?
Rubino was a scholarship recruit. Not sure if we're including punters, but I believe Xavier Subotsch may have been as well. But they have been the exceptions, at least in recent years.

I think the answer is that the coaches feel they can bring in good enough kickers as PWOs (or just regular walk-ons) and then put them on scholarship once they've won the starting job. The flip side being that we don't get stuck with a backup kicker tying up a scholarship for multiple years if it doesn't work out.
I get that, but kickers change and win or lose games all the time. I can’t believe going after place kickers and even punters with scholarships isn’t worth the risk. But there’s plenty I don’t know.
I agree with you in general. I just don't see it as much of a worry for us because by and large we've had good success with our current model of putting them on scholarship once they've won the job. (The biggest kicking issues in recent years being with the one recruit who came in on scholarship.) If we were constantly struggling with subpar kickers and punters, that would be different.

I do wonder how Bama always has pros 3-deep at every spot yet seemingly never has a competent kicker.
Goes back to my argument before that if you are good enough everywhere you should never use a missed FG or 30 yard punt as an excuse. We have to have great special teams to put us over the top with good P5s because they usually don't focus on that. If we had a Trevor Lawrence at QB and the Alabama OL with the rest of our current team we would never need a K or P except for PATs. LOL



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