Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:44 am

asu66 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 am
McLeansvilleAppFan wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:28 pm
asu66 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Dye was a professional colleague and close friend of former App head coach Jim Brakefield. Dye tried every tool in his little black bag to get App to muscle up facilities and athletic fundraising and go with the Pirates into D-I when the SoCon was being relegated to D-IAA by the NCAA. To be fair, App didn't have the resources to pull it off in those days, but the administration was nervous. V-C Bob Snead (Boone native) was often quoted as saying "Appalachian doesn't do anything like East Carolina." That quotation evolved into "We don't do it that way at Appalachian" which evolved into "App can't or "We can't" by the time Roachel Laney took over as AD and Marshall wanted us to move up to D I-A with them! There was an organized campaign to keep App small and remote. A plan for doubling the seating capacity of Conrad Stadium to
approx. 30,000 was vetoed with the heavy lobbying effort of Snead. Still worried about the future and the work of a small but highly influential group of former Mountaineer athletes who wanted to see Appalachian reach its potential in both academics and athletics, Laney's stadium renovation reduced the seating capacity from about 19,000 to about 17,000. Schedules were meh and empty seats frequently outnumbered sold seats.

Thank Heaven for the Appalachian Athletics Foundation and Chancellor Ken Peacock!!!!!!!!!!!
I always enjoy your history posts.

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It was a sincere thanks. I meant to put a smiley face at the end to let you know I was joking about making stuff up.

There is always the official history that get published by organizations and then there is the backstory that is often not mentioned as it is a bit dirtier and complicated and does not always put an organization in the best light or at least in the light the current folks want to project. That untold history is the interesting stuff and often the real truth.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:49 am

asu66 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:15 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am
I could add things that you would not believe , no way … but yet...


...influence peddling...
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:56 am

AppStFan1 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I think of all east coast teams we will make the most sense because we are the only team that is not Army who enters the top 25 outside of the P5 o AAC. We have the best brand name of those outside of AAC to bring in. Just about everyone in college football has at least heard of us now. I don't know when we will end up there but I believe when the Big 12 poaches the AAC we will go there.
Everyone’s expectations need to be managed and self awareness needs to grow. We’re 6 years into FBS football, we’ve been on a great run but in real terms we literally just got here. Breaking the top 25 twice and one final ranking isn’t as big a deal (or I should say isn’t the thing that’s going to get us in) as most fans like to think.

That said, if Shawn Clark can keep the train rolling it would be in ECU‘s best interest to support our candidacy. We’d likely form a two school voting block on almost all issues. We’d probably end up in lock step with them the same way we are with Georgia Southern now. We’re two rural schools in the same state that have history with each other who would have two of the smallest budgets in the league. ECU kinda needs us.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:09 am

APPdiesel wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:56 am
AppStFan1 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:41 pm
I think of all east coast teams we will make the most sense because we are the only team that is not Army who enters the top 25 outside of the P5 or AAC. We have the best brand name of those outside of AAC to bring in. Just about everyone in college football has at least heard of us now. I don't know when we will end up there but I believe when the Big 12 poaches the AAC we will go there.
Everyone’s expectations need to be managed and self awareness needs to grow. We’re 6 years into FBS football, we’ve been on a great run but in real terms we literally just got here. Breaking the top 25 twice and one final ranking isn’t as big a deal (or I should say isn’t the thing that’s going to get us in) as most fans like to think.

That said, if Shawn Clark can keep the train rolling it would be in ECU‘s best interest to support our candidacy. We’d likely form a two school voting block on almost all issues. We’d probably end up in lock step with them the same way we are with Georgia Southern now. We’re two rural schools in the same state that have history with each other who would have two of the smallest budgets in the league. ECU kinda needs us.
Just to make sure you get what I meant is that we have been the only one to enter so far. Obviously, we can't sit on the last few years and must keep the train going. We definitely have to keep the train going. We just need to keep winning and the AAC will eventually come calling. I don't know when but if we win enough we will eventually end up there, as long as we keep Gillin around. That is 100% his goal.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:17 pm

Winning on a consistent basis is not going to get us an invite to the AAC. Our budget is paltry compared to that of the successful athletic programs in the AAC. We need more money through ticket sales, donations and other revenue streams outside of student fees. We are isolated, geographically speaking, to gain a lot of traction with corporate sponsors. Now I could be completely wrong in this, and they decide to come at us for the 12th spot, but given our current fiscal situation, we could possibly see that run of success on the field come to a crashing halt.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Yosef10 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:47 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:17 pm
Winning on a consistent basis is not going to get us an invite to the AAC. Our budget is paltry compared to that of the successful athletic programs in the AAC. We need more money through ticket sales, donations and other revenue streams outside of student fees. We are isolated, geographically speaking, to gain a lot of traction with corporate sponsors. Now I could be completely wrong in this, and they decide to come at us for the 12th spot, but given our current fiscal situation, we could possibly see that run of success on the field come to a crashing halt.
I know it’s not really possible but i would be interested to see how much donations, ticket sales, etc would change with an improved home slate of conference games. I’ll speak for myself but I’d be much more inclined to give and buy season tickets if the home slate was even just ECU, Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa. I just think with more known opponents there is greater potential for our financials, but I’m sure every fan base in the country says that.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:33 pm

Yosef10 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:47 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:17 pm
Winning on a consistent basis is not going to get us an invite to the AAC. Our budget is paltry compared to that of the successful athletic programs in the AAC. We need more money through ticket sales, donations and other revenue streams outside of student fees. We are isolated, geographically speaking, to gain a lot of traction with corporate sponsors. Now I could be completely wrong in this, and they decide to come at us for the 12th spot, but given our current fiscal situation, we could possibly see that run of success on the field come to a crashing halt.
I know it’s not really possible but i would be interested to see how much donations, ticket sales, etc would change with an improved home slate of conference games. I’ll speak for myself but I’d be much more inclined to give and buy season tickets if the home slate was even just ECU, Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa. I just think with more known opponents there is greater potential for our financials, but I’m sure every fan base in the country says that.
An increase of $5 mil in revenue from ticket sales would require an estimated increase of 26k additional season tickets ( based off the prices for said tickets on the website) or, an additional 16k single ticket sales per game. ($50 per ticket for 6 games).

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:00 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:17 pm
Winning on a consistent basis is not going to get us an invite to the AAC. Our budget is paltry compared to that of the successful athletic programs in the AAC. We need more money through ticket sales, donations and other revenue streams outside of student fees. We are isolated, geographically speaking, to gain a lot of traction with corporate sponsors. Now I could be completely wrong in this, and they decide to come at us for the 12th spot, but given our current fiscal situation, we could possibly see that run of success on the field come to a crashing halt.
Winning by itself is not why the AAC would take us but it does help on the financial end, which does help us. We need more money for sure but that same thing was said about going FBS and we have been fine so far. SBC would not have taken us if we were a 2-3 win team every year. When you win like we have, and if you do it over the long haul, people are more likely to go to games and give money.

I'm with you that we need to catch up to the AAC teams in several ways but I believe we can. As long as our coaches do a great job of evaluating and developing talent the success won't come to a halt.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:18 pm

We need about $15-$18 million in additional funds before we can be relevant in the AAC. We can’t achieve that by winning alone.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStateNews » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:20 am

I worked with a company that had ties to Pat Dye and Auburn. I met the Dye family more than once. The first time I met him he asked me my background. When I said I was an App grad his face immediately lit up and said "if you moved up when everyone else did, your program would be the best in the state!" I immediately replied with "well, it still is!" This was right after the championship years. His response was "You're not quite there, but you will be soon. You can't beat that culture!"

Well... sure enough, here we are. And you still can't beat this culture!
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Bootsy » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:42 am

Really appreciate the history lesson, 66.

App's football program has had a long and winding road to where we are now, hope Dr. Jones still plans to go through with writing the book. I would definitely pick up a copy.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by APPdiesel » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:11 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:09 am
Just to make sure you get what I meant is that we have been the only one to enter so far. Obviously, we can't sit on the last few years and must keep the train going. We definitely have to keep the train going. We just need to keep winning and the AAC will eventually come calling. I don't know when but if we win enough we will eventually end up there, as long as we keep Gillin around. That is 100% his goal.
Oh I’m with you. I’m just reminding people to stay grounded. I’ve seen a lot of big talk and chest thumping about how we’re a shoe in. Our accomplishments have been incredible but still pale in comparison to the best at the G5 level. We’re winning, and it’s incredible, but we’re not “there” in terms of the AAC *yet*. We don’t know what the AAC powers value in a potential candidate. Winning is good but I’d hate to hear the butt hurt if (for example) Georgia State got the nod. I remember how butt hurt people were when Charlotte got into CUSA and we didn’t.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:23 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:11 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:09 am
Just to make sure you get what I meant is that we have been the only one to enter so far. Obviously, we can't sit on the last few years and must keep the train going. We definitely have to keep the train going. We just need to keep winning and the AAC will eventually come calling. I don't know when but if we win enough we will eventually end up there, as long as we keep Gillin around. That is 100% his goal.
Oh I’m with you. I’m just reminding people to stay grounded. I’ve seen a lot of big talk and chest thumping about how we’re a shoe in. Our accomplishments have been incredible but still pale in comparison to the best at the G5 level. We’re winning, and it’s incredible, but we’re not “there” in terms of the AAC *yet*. We don’t know what the AAC powers value in a potential candidate. Winning is good but I’d hate to hear the butt hurt if (for example) Georgia State got the nod. I remember how butt hurt people were when Charlotte got into CUSA and we didn’t.
GaSt does have research levels we just don’t have and the Atl market. And they have MBB. If they get football firing on all cylinders I think they would make a good candidate.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by Gr82BAMountaineer » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:49 am

Thank God for former AD Jim Garner. Jim was the one that put us back on the map and he hired Jerry Moore.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:13 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:11 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:09 am
Just to make sure you get what I meant is that we have been the only one to enter so far. Obviously, we can't sit on the last few years and must keep the train going. We definitely have to keep the train going. We just need to keep winning and the AAC will eventually come calling. I don't know when but if we win enough we will eventually end up there, as long as we keep Gillin around. That is 100% his goal.
Oh I’m with you. I’m just reminding people to stay grounded. I’ve seen a lot of big talk and chest thumping about how we’re a shoe in. Our accomplishments have been incredible but still pale in comparison to the best at the G5 level. We’re winning, and it’s incredible, but we’re not “there” in terms of the AAC *yet*. We don’t know what the AAC powers value in a potential candidate. Winning is good but I’d hate to hear the butt hurt if (for example) Georgia State got the nod. I remember how butt hurt people were when Charlotte got into CUSA and we didn’t.
I was not among the butthurt and I understood what they were thinking. They wanted a TV market like Charlotte. If we fall behind and drop down to a 4-8 win program every year then I believe they would not invite us. However, if we can maintain a top 25 program, or close to it, then I believe we will eventually get in. For anyone to think we have done enough so far would be naive.

It would be good to hear from AAC if TV market, winning, location, etc are the most important qualities to consider for their next members when they have to replace some programs. I would be surprised if they picked us to replace UCONN only but if they have 3 or 4 openings then I fully expect we would be one of them, if we keep winning.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:33 pm

For them to have 3 or 4 openings would probably mean that the members that would make them attractive, to both us and networks, would be gone.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by APPdiesel » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:35 pm

If the AAC's top programs (Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, etc) get plucked is the conference really all that attractive anymore? Literally, the only thing desirable about that league anymore would be ECU.

If the AAC's top programs get plucked will they retain even half of their TV contract?

A considerable amount of the shine would fall off the apple if that happened. We could quickly see ourselves in an ODU situation. ODU joined C-USA and immediately found themselves without ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa...all schools who were in CUSA when they signed up. UCF, Houston, Memphis, and SMU had left just 1 year earlier. Now their fans are miserable being there and their sports are floundering.

Point: be careful what you wish for.
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by AppSt94 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:38 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:35 pm
If the AAC's top programs (Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, etc) get plucked is the conference really all that attractive anymore? Literally, the only thing desirable about that league anymore would be ECU.

If the AAC's top programs get plucked will they retain even half of their TV contract?

A considerable amount of the shine would fall off the apple if that happened. We could quickly see ourselves in an ODU situation. ODU joined C-USA and immediately found themselves without ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa...all schools who were in CUSA when they signed up. UCF, Houston, Memphis, and SMU had left just 1 year earlier. Now their fans are miserable being there and their sports are floundering.

Point: be careful what you wish for.
This guy gets it.

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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by NewApp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:45 pm

Gr82BAMountaineer wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:49 am
Thank God for former AD Jim Garner. Jim was the one that put us back on the map and he hired Jerry Moore.

Amen!
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Re: Pat Dye: He Once Called Us a Sleeping Giant

Unread post by APPdiesel » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:48 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:38 pm
This guy gets it.
If that happened (and Sun Belt membership stayed stable and strong) it would be time to make a real pitch at ECU and any one of the Florida or Texas schools left behind or Tulane. Damn the markets, go after the best possible football.
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