App vs. Western: Will it continue?

BeauFoster · Unread post by **BeauFoster** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:24 am

Maddog1956 wrote:
BeauFoster wrote:
I'd say when neither team makes post-season play (past conference tourney), then head to head is the only real judge between the two.
When neither makes post season play, I'd call that pretty equal programs.

Again ties, splits, yearly reverses are all pretty equal to me. With "Cups" we sponsor more sports, but we still did outstanding overall. I'm not taking anything from our students who compete I think they made us proud this year.

It just that to hear people talk we beat them at everything, every year which isn't the case. Overall we usually top them most sports, but then again we have more students.

I'm still looking for that one sport other than football that we beat them every game, every year. Otherwise I'd say we're fairly equal.

Your argument was that they eat our lunch, not that we're equal. Don't back down now!

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:25 am

AppStateCentral wrote:
OH! I forgot rankings is all that matters -- not head to head matchups! In that case, we ate Citadels lunch in football this year even though they manhandled us on the gridiron!

Realistically that's mainly what people look at to gage a sport program. Is it the best way, no really in my opinion but that is the real heavyweight.

So are you saying that the Citadel had a much better football program than APP did this year? I would say that our football team was much better than the Citadel's this year, but we didn't put it together in that game for whatever reason. I would say that we did pretty much eat the lunch in football this year...at least where it mattered.

AppStateNews · Unread post by **AppStateNews** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:31 am

Maddog1956 wrote:Realistically that's mainly what people look at to gage a sport program. Is it the best way, no really in my opinion but that is the real heavyweight.

So are you saying that the Citadel had a much better football program than APP did this year? I would say that our football team was much better than the Citadel's this year, but we didn't put it together in that game for whatever reason. I would say that we did pretty much eat the lunch in football this year...at least where it mattered.

No, realistically, that is the best way to judge if there are no head to head matchups. If there are head to head matchups, that is the best way to determine how teams compare. This year, and in recent years, we split the head to head meetings with Western -- thus, comparable teams.

Glad you finally agree they don't eat our lunch any more and realize we are comparable at baseball, basketball, and track. Just have to get you to realize we dominate everything else now.. You're almost there!

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:36 am

BeauFoster wrote:
Your argument was that they eat our lunch, not that we're equal. Don't back down now!

I said a few post back that might be a little strong, but my first statement was "other sports they they are currently eating our lunch in", like maybe the baseball rankings (I know they don't count), and while we do pretty good head to head, I think their basketball team pretty much did last year (at least in the playoffs).

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:42 am

AppStateCentral wrote:
Maddog1956 wrote:Realistically that's mainly what people look at to gage a sport program. Is it the best way, no really in my opinion but that is the real heavyweight.

So are you saying that the Citadel had a much better football program than APP did this year? I would say that our football team was much better than the Citadel's this year, but we didn't put it together in that game for whatever reason. I would say that we did pretty much eat the lunch in football this year...at least where it mattered.
No, realistically, that is the best way to judge if there are no head to head matchups. If there are head to head matchups, that is the best way to determine how teams compare. This year, and in recent years, we split the head to head meetings with Western -- thus, comparable teams.

Glad you finally agree they don't eat our lunch any more and realize we are comparable at baseball, basketball, and track. Just have to get you to realize we dominate everything else now.. You're almost there!

So you didn't answer my question on the Citadel's but I guess by your answer above I can extrapolate that you think they had a much, much better football team than we did this year? Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, I think the postseason ranking (ranking based on conference wins) is a much deciding fact.

AppStateNews · Unread post by **AppStateNews** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:46 am

Maddog1956 wrote:I said a few post back that might be a little strong, but my first statement was "other sports they they are currently eating our lunch in", like maybe the baseball rankings (I know they don't count), and while we do pretty good head to head, I think their basketball team pretty much did last year (at least in the playoffs).

Try again.. We didn't even play them in the "playoffs" for basketball. We were the 5th seed, they were the 6th. We made it to the semis, they lost in the quarters..

Head to head through the season, we were 1-1 against them.. not sure how that is eating our lunch...

AppStateNews · Unread post by **AppStateNews** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:54 am

Maddog1956 wrote:So you didn't answer my question on the Citadel's but I guess by your answer above I can extrapolate that you think they had a much, much better football team than we did this year? Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, I think the postseason ranking (ranking based on conference wins) is a much deciding fact.

No, they didn't have a better football program last season, but they certainly had the better team the day they played us. Talking about a program is a whole different thing than talking about a game or a season. Additionally, we have dominated The Citadel in football for years, so one win, does not make them a better football program -- just a better team that day.

The fact that after they beat Georgia Southern and us, they fell to some weaker opponents, makes their season worse than ours, but the head to head matchup, they kicked our butts! Thus, they were better that day and can tout that if they want.

This is all stemming from you back tracking on your statements. You specifically said that since Western had a higher rank than us in baseball, they were clearly better than us. I pointed out (along with several others) that we were 2-2 in the head to head, knocked them out of post season play, and continued to play longer than them. In the case of The Citadel and us in football, they were better than us for one day. I was just using The Citadel game as an example that your comment on rankings is absurd. You are just hanging on to it because its the last string you have to hold on to since you have already started to go back on your statements.

Maddog1956 · Unread post by **Maddog1956** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:57 am

AppStateCentral wrote:
Maddog1956 wrote:I said a few post back that might be a little strong, but my first statement was "other sports they they are currently eating our lunch in", like maybe the baseball rankings (I know they don't count), and while we do pretty good head to head, I think their basketball team pretty much did last year (at least in the playoffs).
Try again.. We didn't even play them in the "playoffs" for basketball. We were the 5th seed, they were the 6th. We made it to the semis, they lost in the quarters..

Head to head through the season, we were 1-1 against them.. not sure how that is eating our lunch...

Are you talking of when they lost in the Championship Game: Davidson 93, Western Carolina 91 in double OT? That was last year right (2012)? I think we lost our second game to like UNCG, I didn't even know they had basketball.

AppStateNews · Unread post by **AppStateNews** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:07 am

Maddog1956 wrote:Are you talking of when they lost in the Championship Game: Davidson 93, Western Carolina 91 in double OT? That was last year right (2012)? I think we lost our second game to like UNCG, I didn't even know they had basketball.

I apologize, i figured you were talking about this last season..

But, still, they didn't eat our lunch in the "playoffs" (its a tournament, by the way) if they didn't even play us..

If you didn't know UNCG had a program, that is your own stupidity. That comment alone just proves your are fishing for things after being proved wrong. They were the number 1 seed out of the North and had a good run going into the "playoffs" and had a first round bye before they played us in the second round.

But, I am not going to continue arguing with you over it. I, as well as majority of the board, know Western never "eats our lunch" at anything and App has, by far, the better overall athletics program. We constantly beat them at everything save a few sports (T&F, Baseball, Basketball). If you want to continue reaching for things and coming up empty, go ahead. It is obvious your opinion won't change even though facts were thrown on the table.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:15 am

Maddog1956 wrote:
JTApps1 wrote:It looks like Madcat needs to get his facts straight before running his mouth from now on.
Don't get mad, but I wondered how long you could last without name calling!

It's OK Madcat I ain't mad at you. It's funny to see you back tracking now that we have all proven WCU is not equal to ASU much less eating our lunch.

8993 · Unread post by **8993** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:27 am

Remember what Appalachian says/said: "WE STAND ATOP THE MOUNTAIN WITH NO EQUAL."

asumike83 · Unread post by **asumike83** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:49 am

Historically, the breakdown of all our men's sports has been about like this:

10 sponsored
5 better than Western
2 behind Western
3 Western does not sponsor

It's not particularly close even when you count every sport as an equal and the difference is just as large on the women's side. When you take into account the all-time series in the two revenue sports, the gap grows even more.

Football: 57-18 App
Basketball: 112-66 App

The two athletic programs are not equal, no matter how you measure it. Not historically, not this year, not men's, not women's.

SpeedkingATL · Unread post by **SpeedkingATL** » Thu May 30, 2013 2:12 pm

They wear PURPLE....how good could they be?? :

asu1978 · Unread post by **asu1978** » Thu May 30, 2013 2:30 pm

We OWN the Commissioner's Cup,year after year.Time to MOVE ON

AtlAppMan · Unread post by **AtlAppMan** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:13 pm

This one is going to go the route that ASU & ECU went in late '70s. It will just disappear with the occasional @ Boone venue maybe once every 5-10 yrs.

The reality is once upon a time our programs were much closer to each other but the gap has grown significantly over the last 30 yrs and will likely never be close again. The bigger question is due to the wide gap in programs, why do we even care anymore?

Now if you ask me about a comparison between App and Ga Southern that is a meaningful conversation. I don't like them but respect them and they are at least moving in a similar direction to us.

App vs. Western: Will it continue?

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