DIVISION 4?

[asufan87]

Have been listening to a bunch of interviews and chatter on Sirius XM the past 3 days while on the road and I don't think these changes will be as drastic or as far reaching as some are making it out to be. The bottom line is governance and the top tier programs having a greater say over the issues impacting them as opposed to painting everything with a broad brush and giving programs that share little in common a say in their matters. Division 4 would likely be more of a behind the scenes administrative arrangement grouping similarly situated schools together for the purposes of administering and voting on legislation specific to that group of schools. It likely won't be a casting off or separation of schools or conferences where the haves and have nots don't continue to play each other. It's almost like an affluent neighborhood starting a homeowners association and wanting to implement its own covenants and restrictions. Only members of that homeowners association can vote on those matters. Outsiders have no say over the rules in that neighborhood. It doesn't mean outsiders can't visit the neighborhood (i.e., P5 and G5 schools continuing to play each other) or drive through the neighborhood to get to the country club (i.e., G5 schools having access to the 4 team playoff) or potentially owning property in that neighborhood (I.e, a G5 school being invited into a P5 conference). They just don't want those living in Section 8 housing down the street voting on matters specific to their neighborhood.

Another thing to remember; a 4 team playoff agreement has been struck and it involves both P5 and G5 schools and it has a term of 12 years. P5 schools can't simply tear it up and say it never existed. Thus it won't be easy to simply cast G5 schools aside into some form resembling FCS.

Most P5 schools support a stipend to cover full cost of attendance. The majority of remaining D-I schools don't support this. The bottom line is the P5s will get to vote on their own matters without outside interference and implement some form of stipend. P5 and G5 programs will continue to be FBS and continue to play each other. The P5 student athletes will have a bit sweeter financial aid package.

[appst89]

Heard much of the same as asufan87 on those XM talk shows. I guess this is the best possible scenario for the G5 conferences, but it will still hurt. If the P5 conferences implement a stipend, the recruiting gap will get significantly wider.

[hapapp]

Heard much of the same as asufan87 on those XM talk shows. I guess this is the best possible scenario for the G5 conferences, but it will still hurt. If the P5 conferences implement a stipend, the recruiting gap will get significantly wider.

It is my understanding that the all the existing Sun Belt schools supported the stipend when it was proposed. Even Ga Southern apparently provided no opposition. We are on record as having opposed it.

[appst89]

Heard much of the same as asufan87 on those XM talk shows. I guess this is the best possible scenario for the G5 conferences, but it will still hurt. If the P5 conferences implement a stipend, the recruiting gap will get significantly wider.

It is my understanding that the all the existing Sun Belt schools supported the stipend when it was proposed. Even Ga Southern apparently provided no opposition. We are on record as having opposed it.

The ramifications of the stipend are enough to make one's head spin. Legally, I don't see any way it could be implemented for just football or for just the major sports. I've heard anywhere from as little as $2,000 to as much as $10,000 per year as the amount of the stipend. We will have approximately 250 scholarship athletes after we make the move to FBS. So, we are looking at somewhere between $500,000 and $2.5 million annually in additional revenue needed to cover the stipend. That is not an insurmountable obstacle, but when we are already iffy about future revenue streams, it seems a very large burden to try to bear. There are schools in the Sun Belt with much smaller budgets than ours. I don't see where that money is coming from for them either. Heck, there are some P5 schools that I wonder about based on the budget information available.

[Maddog1956]

The bottom line is governance and the top tier programs having a greater say over the issues impacting them as opposed to painting everything with a broad brush and giving programs that share little in common a say in their matters.

In other words there are a group of schools that don't want to be bugged by pesky little rules about going to class, student athlete, drugs or crime. They believe that the rules keeping it college/student based and are designed to level competition are just holding them down.

It's really not just unique to the P5 however, most sports teams that have the resources feel a little "chained" by rules designed to level the playing field. And if your job is winning every time you play I can see why.

In a way it's like cycling. everyone is doing PED so do away with the rule against it.

[bcoach]

Why don't these guys just form a new division within the NCAA? I don't see the need to do a full break.

They don't want to be regulated by the NCAA and they don't want to share revenue.

From all I've read it is more about not allowing FCS and non scholarship D-1 football programs having a say in issues should only pertain to them. Conversely, FBS schools shouldn't have any input in what FCS schools want to do. Anyone who argues the Power 5 Conferences and FCS should be governed under the same rules is not being realistic. Two totally different worlds.

We don't disagree except that it is also about money.

[bcoach]

Scott may be rich in many people's eyes.

If I could do what I love everyday and get paid a base of $150k I'd feel "rich".

No disagreement there. I was just speaking of hard cold cash.

[97APP]

Why don't these guys just form a new division within the NCAA? I don't see the need to do a full break.

They don't want to be regulated by the NCAA and they don't want to share revenue.

From all I've read it is more about not allowing FCS and non scholarship D-1 football programs having a say in issues should only pertain to them. Conversely, FBS schools shouldn't have any input in what FCS schools want to do. Anyone who argues the Power 5 Conferences and FCS should be governed under the same rules is not being realistic. Two totally different worlds.

We don't disagree except that it is also about money.

Money and Power. IMO, power is more important to the P5. They may show a deficit but that's only besause they're choosing to live the lifestyles of the rich and famous. None of those schools would run in the red if they desired to be profitable.

Many of the P5 would rather make $10m and you make $5m than make $15m and you make $10m. It's about power and keeping the seperation from the schools they deem below them.

[bcoach]

Why don't these guys just form a new division within the NCAA? I don't see the need to do a full break.

They don't want to be regulated by the NCAA and they don't want to share revenue.

From all I've read it is more about not allowing FCS and non scholarship D-1 football programs having a say in issues should only pertain to them. Conversely, FBS schools shouldn't have any input in what FCS schools want to do. Anyone who argues the Power 5 Conferences and FCS should be governed under the same rules is not being realistic. Two totally different worlds.

We don't disagree except that it is also about money.

Money and Power. IMO, power is more important to the P5. They may show a deficit but that's only besause they're choosing to live the lifestyles of the rich and famous. None of those schools would run in the red if they desired to be profitable.

Many of the P5 would rather make $10m and you make $5m than make $15m and you make $10m. It's about power and keeping the seperation from the schools they deem below them.

I would argue that the money is more important but I have been wrong before. The separation is about money in my opinion. See they very much enjoy spending other peoples money and don't want to risk losing the perks that come along with other peoples money. I'll give you an example of what I am talking about. If any loss had to be made up from going to a bowl came out of the pocket of the AD or Chancellor what do you think would happen? I'll tell you. Either the bowl monetary setup would change drastically or they would not be going to bowls. That is only one example. They need all the money they can get to keep up their lifestyle. That pool of money ( ours ) is only so big. When the pie can't get any bigger you need to get a bigger piece. That is what they are after so it is not that they don't want you to get the $10m it is that they want to get $20m. They want it all. They hold the cards. In the end the NCAA will do what the P5 wants or the NCAA has a REAL problem.
They don't need us anywhere near as much as we need them. Look at our game with Michigan. Who do you think needs that game? What reason do we have for playing it other than money?