Defense

[App91]

3. PF on 1st & 10. Made it 1st & 25. Drive stalled and forced a punt.

Clark mentioned last night that after SB/ACC ref review they called and said it was the wrong call.


Edit to fix it to the 3rd one not 2nd.

Interesting UNC podcast was none too happy with the refs in the 4th qtr. said the defensive holding and DPI penalties were questionable. said Mack sent some tape to the league office. Most importantly they noted this white hat had been suspended before. and then mentioned David Cutcliff. I did not have time or energy to look it up, but could it have been the Miami/Duke on-side kick crew?

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

3. PF on 1st & 10. Made it 1st & 25. Drive stalled and forced a punt.

Clark mentioned last night that after SB/ACC ref review they called and said it was the wrong call.


Edit to fix it to the 3rd one not 2nd.

Interesting UNC podcast was none too happy with the refs in the 4th qtr. said the defensive holding and DPI penalties were questionable. said Mack sent some tape to the league office. Most importantly they noted this white hat had been suspended before. and then mentioned David Cutcliff. I did not have time or energy to look it up, but could it have been the Miami/Duke on-side kick crew?

Looking at film from both our game and the Duke/Miami game it looks like the same guy. That's about as much effort I put into seeing if it's the same guy.

[bigdaddyg]

I'm not quite getting the "conservative " play calling stuff some folks seem to believe they saw in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Our 3rd TD was a drive that ended in the second. The next drive went 7 plays for 41 yards and ended with a missed FG but still included passes. The next drive included a killer 15 yard penalty that was probably questionable.
We had a 3rd and 21 and of course didn't convert. The first drive of the 3rd included a couple of first downs and passes but ended with the sack. Still don't see conservative there. The next one ended with the PIC which was brutal but still not conservative. So I need help understanding (other than not scoring) how much did our approach really change in the 2nd and 3rd?

“Going conservative” is what people on this board say when the other team’s defense adjusts and starts slowing App down.

AND, you dont adjust to the adjustments.

My point exactly. What did we not do to adjust other than not score? Moved the ball but missed a FG. Bad penalty put us in a bad position. We still threw the ball.

[AppOrange]

Other than Robert Morris, Citadel and maybe Texas State isn't every other game probably going to be tough? If those are the 3 "easiest" so to speak who is considered the next easiest on the schedule? Apparently not ODU

Based on our offensive output, which I know that can’t be relied upon week in and week out, who on the schedule can score enough to keep up? Coastal?

Who has the defense to slow us down? Troy? Ga State?

I try not to get too up or down. As a Panther fan you learn to temper your expectations but unless we lose an offensive lineman or two and maybe a linebacker (and obviously Chase) I can't see us getting slowed down after Saturday. We are way too deep at the skilled positions and won't face bigger or faster defenses. If our defense figures it out and we keep teams at 20 PPG or so they won't keep up.

A lot can be said about the difference in our offenive gameplan Saturday and the last coule of years. It is probably the diffence in the outcome of some of the losses we took in that time. We have and have had the players to get the job done. Their is an art to playing ahead of the opposing D. I really liked our improvement in that area, Keep it up and we'll achieve our seaon's goals.

The UNC game reminded me of an old Mountain West game, exciting with no defense.

It reminded me of typical Sunbelt football. I feel the biggest reason we have dominated since coming in is the fact we play D at a higher level then the rest of the league, I hope we get it back.

[Saint3333]

The cadence of the plays was much slower in the second half of Q2. You could tell we were trying to run clock and prevent them getting the ball back, a strategy that sometimes works, it didn't this time around. That said I love the play calling as a whole for the first game. He spread the touches around and gave DC's on our schedule a ton to prepare for, scary how many different WR/TE/RB weapons we have.

UNCCH did the same thing late in the third/early 4th and assisted in getting us back in the game.

[App91]

I'm not quite getting the "conservative " play calling stuff some folks seem to believe they saw in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Our 3rd TD was a drive that ended in the second. The next drive went 7 plays for 41 yards and ended with a missed FG but still included passes. The next drive included a killer 15 yard penalty that was probably questionable.
We had a 3rd and 21 and of course didn't convert. The first drive of the 3rd included a couple of first downs and passes but ended with the sack. Still don't see conservative there. The next one ended with the PIC which was brutal but still not conservative. So I need help understanding (other than not scoring) how much did our approach really change in the 2nd and 3rd?

“Going conservative” is what people on this board say when the other team’s defense adjusts and starts slowing App down.

AND, you dont adjust to the adjustments.

My point exactly. What did we not do to adjust other than not score? Moved the ball but missed a FG. Bad penalty put us in a bad position. We still threw the ball.

Just my opinion, but i thought we got a little slow and methodical during the 2nd and third qtrs. again have not reviewed but felt at the time as if we had entered ground and pound mode and had gotten out of trying to move their eyes.

[BUTCH1991]

3. PF on 1st & 10. Made it 1st & 25. Drive stalled and forced a punt.

Clark mentioned last night that after SB/ACC ref review they called and said it was the wrong call.


Edit to fix it to the 3rd one not 2nd.

Interesting UNC podcast was none too happy with the refs in the 4th qtr. said the defensive holding and DPI penalties were questionable. said Mack sent some tape to the league office. Most importantly they noted this white hat had been suspended before. and then mentioned David Cutcliff. I did not have time or energy to look it up, but could it have been the Miami/Duke on-side kick crew?

The holding and PI calls were accurate. The only questionable one to me was the late hit on Chase, but we really needed that flag, so I'm grateful.

[AppSt94]

3. PF on 1st & 10. Made it 1st & 25. Drive stalled and forced a punt.

Clark mentioned last night that after SB/ACC ref review they called and said it was the wrong call.


Edit to fix it to the 3rd one not 2nd.

Interesting UNC podcast was none too happy with the refs in the 4th qtr. said the defensive holding and DPI penalties were questionable. said Mack sent some tape to the league office. Most importantly they noted this white hat had been suspended before. and then mentioned David Cutcliff. I did not have time or energy to look it up, but could it have been the Miami/Duke on-side kick crew?

The holding and PI calls were accurate. The only questionable one to me was the late hit on Chase, but we really needed that flag, so I'm grateful.

If the QB starts the slide, he is considered down. Can’t hit him.

[app97]

UNC basically had 13 possessions, scored on 10, punted twice and fumbled once.

They scored on 7 of their first 8 possessions thru 12:10 mark of 4th quarter.

They scored 63 points on us. If you say opponent will score 63 on you, I expect a loss before the game starts.

Clark clearly was pissed and said coaches and players were not getting it done on D.

We can't win at a high-level playing D like that no matter how potent our Offense is.

After calming down for a few days, I remind myself that it may take few games to get the Defensive side of the ball doing a better job. I remember 2019 and was not happy after Charlotte. I believed Roof would get them there and he eventually did. Problem this year is we had two of our toughest games up front so we have no room for margin. If we expect to compete at the highest levels and be a top 25 team we cannot keep starting the season with our Defense playing so poorly.

I want to be like a Cincinnati last year and run the table. Someone said on another thread that the environment we are playing in (i.e. SBC) is rising thus what level of play we delivered 5 yrs ago is no longer good enough JUST to win the SBC. If we want to get to a 12 team CFP then we have to win these types of games, even at the beginning of the season. I KNOW Clark and his staff and all the players also want that. We all do but the defense has to be better out of the gate. Just stop them 2-3 more times and we easily win the game. We didn't have to throw a shutout, just a middling defense for game 1.

I do expect us to improve, I just don't know how quickly and how good we will get.

It's interesting to me that pretty much every year (including this year) coach mentions that the defense outplays the offense in the pre-season, although our D wasn't playing UNC and Texas A&M offenses in practice. I'm not worried yet, considering that we've historically been strong on D as far back as I can remember and we have all defensive coaches back this year from last year. We have some youth in the secondary and unknowns on the D line, but I feel like Dale and company will get these guys in the right spots sooner than later.

[AppSt94]

I don’t see the problem as a talent or effort issue. This appears to be a communication issue. Those get worked out through reps and film study. We will be fine.

[goapps93]

I don’t see the problem as a talent or effort issue. This appears to be a communication issue. Those get worked out through reps and film study. We will be fine.

And as Shawn has said, "execution." I agree that we will be fine.

[AppOrange]

I am most worried about our safeties, they seemed to be either out of position or did not make the tackle in way too many instances Saturday. These guys get better, we will be fine. If not, we are going to see a lot of middle of the field action this year.

[AtlAppMan]

I was thinking during game, what happened to us in 2nd qtr? However I did go back and watch some of the 2nd qtr on replay and I did NOT see any material change in our offensive game plan. The 4th possession we went down and kicked a field goal (missed from 51 yrds) but had chance for score. On the next possession is when we got the 15 yrd penalty as mention above. We did call two running plays on 1st and 2nd down with 1st and 25. At time I thought both were not the right call. Because both ended up getting us nothing it is easy to second guess but if they worked to get us 10 yrds each because defense expected passes then Barbay looks like a hero. The point is when you are sitting 1st and 25, the stats are not in your favor at all. In retrospect we got screwed on the call but sometimes those things happen so you have to overcome them.

Point is, I think the penalty got us into trouble and the resulting play calling didn't work in the moment and then they scored before half. That hurt bad. It was a momentum changing moment in the game.

I didn't see a trend of bad play calling in the 2nd quarter. I will watch 3rd qtr later.

[TractorApp]

I was thinking during game, what happened to us in 2nd qtr? However I did go back and watch some of the 2nd qtr on replay and I did NOT see any material change in our offensive game plan. The 4th possession we went down and kicked a field goal (missed from 51 yrds) but had chance for score. On the next possession is when we got the 15 yrd penalty as mention above. We did call two running plays on 1st and 2nd down with 1st and 25. At time I thought both were not the right call. Because both ended up getting us nothing it is easy to second guess but if they worked to get us 10 yrds each because defense expected passes then Barbay looks like a hero. The point is when you are sitting 1st and 25, the stats are not in your favor at all. In retrospect we got screwed on the call but sometimes those things happen so you have to overcome them.

Point is, I think the penalty got us into trouble and the resulting play calling didn't work in the moment and then they scored before half. That hurt bad. It was a momentum changing moment in the game.

I didn't see a trend of bad play calling in the 2nd quarter. I will watch 3rd qtr later.

I went back to that late second quarter play where we got the 15 yard blocking below the waist penalty. That was a back breaker. We would have had 2nd and 2 instead of 1st and 25. Who knows, we were starting to roll up to that point. What stinks is that it was away from the play. The penalty was definitely there and should always be called because of player safety concerns. I trust our coaches have corrected that.

[TractorApp]

FYI, here is the rule. Problem was our TE lined up in the backfield, not on the LOS.

1. Linemen with initial position completely inside the tackle box may legally block below the waist inside the tackle box on their initial line charge. A block initiated 1-yard beyond the neutral zone is considered within the tackle box.May 27, 2022
https://www.onefootdown.com › bes...
Best

[AtlAppMan]

I was thinking during game, what happened to us in 2nd qtr? However I did go back and watch some of the 2nd qtr on replay and I did NOT see any material change in our offensive game plan. The 4th possession we went down and kicked a field goal (missed from 51 yrds) but had chance for score. On the next possession is when we got the 15 yrd penalty as mention above. We did call two running plays on 1st and 2nd down with 1st and 25. At time I thought both were not the right call. Because both ended up getting us nothing it is easy to second guess but if they worked to get us 10 yrds each because defense expected passes then Barbay looks like a hero. The point is when you are sitting 1st and 25, the stats are not in your favor at all. In retrospect we got screwed on the call but sometimes those things happen so you have to overcome them.

Point is, I think the penalty got us into trouble and the resulting play calling didn't work in the moment and then they scored before half. That hurt bad. It was a momentum changing moment in the game.

I didn't see a trend of bad play calling in the 2nd quarter. I will watch 3rd qtr later.

I went back to that late second quarter play where we got the 15 yard blocking below the waist penalty. That was a back breaker. We would have had 2nd and 2 instead of 1st and 25. Who knows, we were starting to roll up to that point. What stinks is that it was away from the play. The penalty was definitely there and should always be called because of player safety concerns. I trust our coaches have corrected that.

Per Clark, That penalty was submitted to the ACC officials and they reviewed it and said it was a bad call and should not have been called. The refs were wrong. Unfortunately it is too late to change the outcome. That is the human element of the game that we have no control over so we have to just overcome those types of situations.

[AppStFan1]

I was thinking during game, what happened to us in 2nd qtr? However I did go back and watch some of the 2nd qtr on replay and I did NOT see any material change in our offensive game plan. The 4th possession we went down and kicked a field goal (missed from 51 yrds) but had chance for score. On the next possession is when we got the 15 yrd penalty as mention above. We did call two running plays on 1st and 2nd down with 1st and 25. At time I thought both were not the right call. Because both ended up getting us nothing it is easy to second guess but if they worked to get us 10 yrds each because defense expected passes then Barbay looks like a hero. The point is when you are sitting 1st and 25, the stats are not in your favor at all. In retrospect we got screwed on the call but sometimes those things happen so you have to overcome them.

Point is, I think the penalty got us into trouble and the resulting play calling didn't work in the moment and then they scored before half. That hurt bad. It was a momentum changing moment in the game.

I didn't see a trend of bad play calling in the 2nd quarter. I will watch 3rd qtr later.

I went back to that late second quarter play where we got the 15 yard blocking below the waist penalty. That was a back breaker. We would have had 2nd and 2 instead of 1st and 25. Who knows, we were starting to roll up to that point. What stinks is that it was away from the play. The penalty was definitely there and should always be called because of player safety concerns. I trust our coaches have corrected that.

Per Clark, That penalty was submitted to the ACC officials and they reviewed it and said it was a bad call and should not have been called. The refs were wrong. Unfortunately it is too late to change the outcome. That is the human element of the game that we have no control over so we have to just overcome those types of situations.

Definitely a huge penalty and unfortunately that happens for both teams. UNC had several penalties that kept our drives alive in the 4th quarter so both teams had penalties that hurt the other. That human element of the game and you know the refs won't ever be perfect.

[bigdaddyg]

I have always tried to not bitch about calls and to use a "bad call" as an excuse. No referees or sets of officials do anything to help a team win. Those who say or think that are crazy. I try to believe that calls tend to equal out. Fans bitch and moan about the bad call that didn't go their way but don't recall the ones that did go their way. Human error is just part of the deal. I'm sure we might have gotten away with a hold or some other penalty that didn't get called. Gotta overcome it.

[AppFan11]

Yes we sent video to SBC officials too…. there are always more calls that can be called that aren’t…. for both sides. Apps has been a top 30 defense since 2015… I’d expect by the end of the year we will be close to that… I’d also expect to see some improvement this Saturday.

[Black Saturday]

I have always tried to not bitch about calls and to use a "bad call" as an excuse. No referees or sets of officials do anything to help a team win. Those who say or think that are crazy. I try to believe that calls tend to equal out. Fans bitch and moan about the bad call that didn't go their way but don't recall the ones that did go their way. Human error is just part of the deal. I'm sure we might have gotten away with a hold or some other penalty that didn't get called. Gotta overcome it.

Back in the 1990's and 2000's there was an ACC football Ref from my hometown, big joke was he was the biggest UNC fan in town too. Everyone wondered how he could be impartial.