Dale Jones out - Footballscoop

[AppSt94]

"What if I said Clark told me after spring ball he would be surprised to be over .500 this year? I was told we were likely playing 8 guys on the starting 22 that weren't ready to start but we didn't have any other options."
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If the head coach doesn't have any faith in his team/program, as you stated, no wonder things ended the way it did. On another note, from what I'm hearing I have confidence things will be better next season.

Believe it or not, coaches are usually honest with friends, other coaches, and people they trust - I don't know the relationship between Coach Clark and AppState News but comments like this one are Not uncommon between certain parties - I can tell you that more than once I made a similar statement to people close to me - "Man we will be lucky to win 5 games this year" -Does that show you have no faith in your team or your coaching ability??? - Hell No, It's called being honest

I am less concerned about a coach making that assessment and comment (to limited audiences of course) but rather why we are in that situation in the first place. If all you folks in the know tell me we were so bad when he took over that we had to totally rebuild and go backward to go forward I am a more than skeptical but if the real situation was true then I would say it is the right thing to do. We coach started I didn’t hear these experts say we are going to be in a 3-4 year rebuild phase so buckle up and get ready for some hard times for App State football. Nobody said that. But rather now that we are 6-6 all these football guys say, we had no talent due to Drink, had to deal with COVID, this, that, etc. excuse me but the explanations seem a little convenient.

For me I do continue to remind myself that we played the long game, hired a rookie and with that will be some growing pains. That was the commitment we were making so we have to give reasonable time, more so than if we were hiring the hot gun or veteran at that time. So right now we are in that “give it some time mode and hope we make all the right adjustments period”.

Serious question(s): What conclusions did you make as to the reason for the record this season? What caused those issues?

Great question! I’ve wondered since the middle of the season. (what happened?) I’ve hesitated to ask for fear of being called some name like “stupid or delusional”. So I’m thrilled that you asked. Wonder what everyone on here thinks are the reasons for the record. (not excuses).

So the question that I plan to ask either Shawn or Lance is that something in the line play seemed to break at the half of the JMU game. What broke?

[AppSt94]

"What if I said Clark told me after spring ball he would be surprised to be over .500 this year? I was told we were likely playing 8 guys on the starting 22 that weren't ready to start but we didn't have any other options."
==========================================
If the head coach doesn't have any faith in his team/program, as you stated, no wonder things ended the way it did. On another note, from what I'm hearing I have confidence things will be better next season.

Believe it or not, coaches are usually honest with friends, other coaches, and people they trust - I don't know the relationship between Coach Clark and AppState News but comments like this one are Not uncommon between certain parties - I can tell you that more than once I made a similar statement to people close to me - "Man we will be lucky to win 5 games this year" -Does that show you have no faith in your team or your coaching ability??? - Hell No, It's called being honest

Heading into the JMU game we were 2-1 with the only loss coming in a close game with UNC (and, a win against Texas A&M). While leading at halftime against JMU, I saw a team that was better than .500 especially with 2 FCS teams thrown into the mix. Then for some unknown reason everything turned upside down. Maybe if someone believes they'll only be .500 at best that's precisely what's going to happen. (just speculation, seems that way at least) We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I personally believer we were better than a .500 team. We proved it early on.

We make the odd angle FG and beat Southern, we are 7-5 and bowling. We don’t have the punt blocked for a TD against Marshall or fumble a snap going in for a score against Coastal, those games look different and we could be 8-4 or even 9-3 and no one is complaining as loud as they are now. Of course these are two plays and you can come back with the Hail Mary miss and we are 1-4. The point is that the margin of error between winning and losing is razor thin. I understand why one would glean that we were better than a .500 team. I just don’t know how what you see on Saturday can be the determining factor of expectations when no one sees what happens Sunday to Friday.

Why did we go conservative at halftime during the JMU game going forward? We became predictable as "Brownie" said. Some of that rizor thin margin of victory could have been avoided with a little more creativity. There were a lot of self inflicted wounds this season.

And a lot of those self inflicted wounds can be attributed to young guys, not quite ready for the stage being asked to do more than they were capable.

[AtlAppMan]

Believe it or not, coaches are usually honest with friends, other coaches, and people they trust - I don't know the relationship between Coach Clark and AppState News but comments like this one are Not uncommon between certain parties - I can tell you that more than once I made a similar statement to people close to me - "Man we will be lucky to win 5 games this year" -Does that show you have no faith in your team or your coaching ability??? - Hell No, It's called being honest

Heading into the JMU game we were 2-1 with the only loss coming in a close game with UNC (and, a win against Texas A&M). While leading at halftime against JMU, I saw a team that was better than .500 especially with 2 FCS teams thrown into the mix. Then for some unknown reason everything turned upside down. Maybe if someone believes they'll only be .500 at best that's precisely what's going to happen. (just speculation, seems that way at least) We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I personally believer we were better than a .500 team. We proved it early on.

We make the odd angle FG and beat Southern, we are 7-5 and bowling. We don’t have the punt blocked for a TD against Marshall or fumble a snap going in for a score against Coastal, those games look different and we could be 8-4 or even 9-3 and no one is complaining as loud as they are now. Of course these are two plays and you can come back with the Hail Mary miss and we are 1-4. The point is that the margin of error between winning and losing is razor thin. I understand why one would glean that we were better than a .500 team. I just don’t know how what you see on Saturday can be the determining factor of expectations when no one sees what happens Sunday to Friday.

Why did we go conservative at halftime during the JMU game going forward? We became predictable as "Brownie" said. Some of that rizor thin margin of victory could have been avoided with a little more creativity. There were a lot of self inflicted wounds this season.

And a lot of those self inflicted wounds can be attributed to young guys, not quite ready for the stage being asked to do more than they were capable.

I keep saying if one key root cause is talent then that falls back on coaches (i.e. recruiting) and if that is as “News” claims is lack of funding our assistant coaching salary pool then maybe that is a key problem. It may result in a lack of athlete talent and/or lack of coaching ability both resulting in continued decline in the overall program. I could see that as a possibility.

However some on this board keep saying our Oline is all star caliber and that doesn’t make sense. We either have a talent issue (players and coaches) or we don’t. What is it?

[AppSt94]

Heading into the JMU game we were 2-1 with the only loss coming in a close game with UNC (and, a win against Texas A&M). While leading at halftime against JMU, I saw a team that was better than .500 especially with 2 FCS teams thrown into the mix. Then for some unknown reason everything turned upside down. Maybe if someone believes they'll only be .500 at best that's precisely what's going to happen. (just speculation, seems that way at least) We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I personally believer we were better than a .500 team. We proved it early on.

We make the odd angle FG and beat Southern, we are 7-5 and bowling. We don’t have the punt blocked for a TD against Marshall or fumble a snap going in for a score against Coastal, those games look different and we could be 8-4 or even 9-3 and no one is complaining as loud as they are now. Of course these are two plays and you can come back with the Hail Mary miss and we are 1-4. The point is that the margin of error between winning and losing is razor thin. I understand why one would glean that we were better than a .500 team. I just don’t know how what you see on Saturday can be the determining factor of expectations when no one sees what happens Sunday to Friday.

Why did we go conservative at halftime during the JMU game going forward? We became predictable as "Brownie" said. Some of that rizor thin margin of victory could have been avoided with a little more creativity. There were a lot of self inflicted wounds this season.

And a lot of those self inflicted wounds can be attributed to young guys, not quite ready for the stage being asked to do more than they were capable.

I keep saying if one key root cause is talent then that falls back on coaches (i.e. recruiting) and if that is as “News” claims is lack of funding our assistant coaching salary pool then maybe that is a key problem. It may result in a lack of athlete talent and/or lack of coaching ability both resulting in continued decline in the overall program. I could see that as a possibility.

However some on this board keep saying our Oline is all star caliber and that doesn’t make sense. We either have a talent issue (players and coaches) or we don’t. What is it?

The thing is that a lot of what we do on the OL and the defense as a whole requires the utmost consistency in effort and execution to work. I agree with you that on paper, i.e. message board fodder, that having four starters back that we should have looked better than it did. Hence my question to Clark of, “What broke?”

However, there were injuries that no one spoke publicly about as well as some drop off in play from some proven starters that led to some issues. Having inconsistent play from the RBs didn’t help either.

As for the defense, it is possible that fans looked at guys like Bird and Doublin because they are 5th and 6th year guys and Parker, a P5 transfer were more than capable of filling in for Harrington and Cobb when they got injured and Parker replacing Jackson with minimal drop off. When in reality, they weren’t. In Parker’s case, he just has a different skill set than Jackson. The same goes for Ronald Clarke at FS replacing Huff. He probably shouldn’t have been out there but we had no other options. The fact of the matter is that we had 2’s that weren’t 1’s. And that is an area where you are counting on guys from the recruiting classes of Satt and Drink to step up and they didn’t. Despite all of that, we were really out of only 1 game. That’s not a moral victory, but it does provide hope and optimism for the future.

[AppfaninCAALand]

I need someone to tell me what a message board is for. It’s clear I’ve been wrong for over 30 years. Should we post cat videos, recipes, farm reports, what?

Christmas recipes would be nice. I could also go for movie reviews, auto repair advise, tips for beating the new God of War game, and debates about whether the true date for the fall of the Roman Empire was 476 or 1453.

This is a funny chain of posts....but also humiliating. I cant believe what Shawn Clark did to this program. Not being in a bowl game right now is unimaginable. Its so bad it doesnt seem real. Everything our program built up for decades....gone. like thr fall of thr Roman Empire in 476

It may be popular conventional wisdom to think the App football program is collapsing, but the reality is conventional wisdom is wrong, and with a little retooling, the program could be back on its feet quickly, having regained most of grouund we have lost, and be built to last for another 1000 years.

[NewApp]

I need someone to tell me what a message board is for. It’s clear I’ve been wrong for over 30 years. Should we post cat videos, recipes, farm reports, what?

Christmas recipes would be nice. I could also go for movie reviews, auto repair advise, tips for beating the new God of War game, and debates about whether the true date for the fall of the Roman Empire was 476 or 1453.

This is a funny chain of posts....but also humiliating. I cant believe what Shawn Clark did to this program. Not being in a bowl game right now is unimaginable. Its so bad it doesnt seem real. Everything our program built up for decades....gone. like thr fall of thr Roman Empire in 476

It may be popular conventional wisdom to think the App football program is collapsing, but the reality is conventional wisdom is wrong, and with a little retooling, the program could be back on its feet quickly, having regained most of grouund we have lost, and be built to last for another 1000 years.

Amen bro'
One of the very few proportionately positive comments for the past couple or more weeks. Our program will more likely succeed if everybody to a man stays positive. For certain, the minds in the program (all the way to the top) already know the various things that have been critiqued by members of this board. Talent or lack of it, different opinions in play calling, hiring, staffing (both hiring and firing). As to play calling there are as many differing opinions on here as there are similarities. What it boils down to is if a play is successful, it was the right call. If it didn't it was a bad call. If we let up in the second half, the staff catches hell. If we don't let up and player gets hurt, the staff catches hell. If we don't let up and reserves don't get playing time, the staff catches hell. When the score is in our favor, the players won it. If the score is not in our favor, the coaches blew it.

Having said all this stuff, debate is good on here , constant negativity can and likely will be detrimental. Coaches, players, and administration as well as alumni/fans read and take seriously what is posted, especially the CW or lack there of. Lets hope the potential recruits are NOT reading this thread or they'll think that fans and staff are at odds and even the recruits will suffer.

Not being facetious, nor sarcastic rather just an OPINION!. And not necessarily an educated one.

[NewApp]

I need someone to tell me what a message board is for. It’s clear I’ve been wrong for over 30 years. Should we post cat videos, recipes, farm reports, what?

Christmas recipes would be nice. I could also go for movie reviews, auto repair advise, tips for beating the new God of War game, and debates about whether the true date for the fall of the Roman Empire was 476 or 1453.

This is a funny chain of posts....but also humiliating. I cant believe what Shawn Clark did to this program. Not being in a bowl game right now is unimaginable. Its so bad it doesnt seem real. Everything our program built up for decades....gone. like thr fall of thr Roman Empire in 476

It may be popular conventional wisdom to think the App football program is collapsing, but the reality is conventional wisdom is wrong, and with a little retooling, the program could be back on its feet quickly, having regained most of grouund we have lost, and be built to last for another 1000 years.

Amen bro'
One of the very few proportionately positive comments for the past couple or more weeks. Our program will more likely succeed if everybody to a man stays positive. For certain, the minds in the program (all the way to the top) already know the various things that have been critiqued by members of this board. Talent or lack of it, different opinions in play calling, hiring, staffing (both hiring and firing). As to play calling there are as many differing opinions on here as there are similarities. What it boils down to is if a play is successful, it was the right call. If it didn't it was a bad call. If we let up in the second half, the staff catches hell. If we don't let up and player gets hurt, the staff catches hell. If we don't let up and reserves don't get playing time, the staff catches hell. When the score is in our favor, the players won it. If the score is not in our favor, the coaches blew it.

Having said all this stuff, debate is good on here , constant negativity can and likely will be detrimental. Coaches, players, and administration as well as alumni/fans read and take seriously what is posted, especially the CW or lack there of. Lets hope the potential recruits are NOT reading this thread or they'll think that fans and staff are at odds and even the recruits will suffer.

Not being facetious, nor sarcastic rather just an OPINION!. And not necessarily an educated one.

[appst89]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

[appstate24]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Dang! Figured it was a long shot, but was really hoping to get Mark back on the mountain.

GO APPS!!

[AppYosef!]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Well dang it! Good for Ivey though. Their message boards were on fire with folks demanding they find a place for him to stay.

[appstate24]

Any rumblings of replacements for O-Line, D-Line, and DC?

Any sort of timeline? With Christmas in a couple of days, I am assuming nothing else this week. Hopefully next week?

GO APPS!!

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

No knowledge, just speculation…not seeing where Gas is being brought in at Cincinnati and bowl game was a week ago. If that’s who we want, I’m guessing that’s a good thing unless Louisville plans to retain as DC, but they’ve already hired Ron English as Co-DC. Seems if they were going to retain Gas, that decision would have been made. They probably are looking for a seasoned DC.

[MtnMan14]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Well dang it! Good for Ivey though. Their message boards were on fire with folks demanding they find a place for him to stay.

Do we think it’d be possible to get Ivey as DC and/or would we want him as DC? I don’t believe it’s uncommon for a P5 position coach to leave to become a G5 DC. He could always use his position at Louisville to leverage a contract as DC here. Just a thought, but I’m also not entirely certain how it all works from the legal side.

[AppSt94]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Well dang it! Good for Ivey though. Their message boards were on fire with folks demanding they find a place for him to stay.

Do we think it’d be possible to get Ivey as DC and/or would we want him as DC? I don’t believe it’s uncommon for a P5 position coach to leave to become a G5 DC. He could always use his position at Louisville to leverage a contract as DC here. Just a thought, but I’m also not entirely certain how it all works from the legal side.

I’m not sure that there is any issues legally. Remember that we hired Ken Dorsey as our RB coach and he was here for a minute before leaving for the OC role with the Buffalo Bills. Anybody know how that’s working out for him?

[bcoach]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Well dang it! Good for Ivey though. Their message boards were on fire with folks demanding they find a place for him to stay.

Do we think it’d be possible to get Ivey as DC and/or would we want him as DC? I don’t believe it’s uncommon for a P5 position coach to leave to become a G5 DC. He could always use his position at Louisville to leverage a contract as DC here. Just a thought, but I’m also not entirely certain how it all works from the legal side.

I’m not sure that there is any issues legally. Remember that we hired Ken Dorsey as our RB coach and he was here for a minute before leaving for the OC role with the Buffalo Bills. Anybody know how that’s working out for him?

Kind of like the dink hire. Who ever thought either one would be here for more than a few months.

[goapps93]

Just saw a tweet that said Brohm is keeping Ivey on the Louisville staff as a defensive assistant.

Well dang it! Good for Ivey though. Their message boards were on fire with folks demanding they find a place for him to stay.

Do we think it’d be possible to get Ivey as DC and/or would we want him as DC? I don’t believe it’s uncommon for a P5 position coach to leave to become a G5 DC. He could always use his position at Louisville to leverage a contract as DC here. Just a thought, but I’m also not entirely certain how it all works from the legal side.

I’m not sure that there is any issues legally. Remember that we hired Ken Dorsey as our RB coach and he was here for a minute before leaving for the OC role with the Buffalo Bills. Anybody know how that’s working out for him?

I’d say Dorsey is having a pretty good run with Buffalo.

[AppSt94]

Back to the hires. We should start to see some movement soon. Interviews likely occur at the AFCA convention in Charlotte. Who wants to hang around the hotel in Charlotte and spy on Shawn? We are looking for a DC and one other spot. We have some flexibility with DiBastiani in that he can coach either LB spot or DL.

From a chess match perspective, we need to find someone that can cover holes in the recruiting areas of Atl and whatever else Dale was responsible for. Previous DC experience preferred but not required. And if they are going to cover Georgia, I guess political affiliation will need to be a factor to satisfy the Twitter Mob.

[Appstate88]

We have three openings. OL, DL, LB coach positions. Either the DL or LB coach will be DC I assume.

For all three positions required:

1- Be younger than head coach (<45)
2- Very smart Football mind - technically competent - schemes well - mitigates team weaknesses and exploits opponents
3- Keen eye in evaluating talent and character
4- Played HS and/or College Football in the Southeast
5- Displays a lot of energy to coach, recruit and motivate those around him.
6- Good with Social Media, interacts well with younger generation and can quickly build trust with future players and HS Coaches.
7- Knows how to develop position players - has a process - detail oriented - execution focused
8- Wants to be here but does not want to retire here - Likes Mountains - Team Player - Family Man
9- Has relationships with JUCO programs
10- App State ties (former player or coach) desired but not required like 1-9.

[AppStateTailgate]

Back to the hires. We should start to see some movement soon. Interviews likely occur at the AFCA convention in Charlotte. Who wants to hang around the hotel in Charlotte and spy on Shawn? We are looking for a DC and one other spot. We have some flexibility with DiBastiani in that he can coach either LB spot or DL.

From a chess match perspective, we need to find someone that can cover holes in the recruiting areas of Atl and whatever else Dale was responsible for. Previous DC experience preferred but not required. And if they are going to cover Georgia, I guess political affiliation will need to be a factor to satisfy the Twitter Mob.

To be fair, Dale Jones was on an official recruiting trip, pictured in App State clothing, standing next to a Republican candidate so hated even freaking Georgia wouldn’t elect him, tweeting out to vote for him. The next DC can be a Republican in his private life he just can’t do THAT.

[bcoach]

Not seeing anyone from Virginia. Botetourt county is an OL factory.