#TeamClark

[fjblair]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

I'm wondering if that is because of some of the folks coming out and saying insiders feel like we are keeping Clark no matter what.

When donors that cherish their “insider” status with a coach get to make decisions that hasn’t worked out so well for us (I.e. basketball).

This profession is a reputation business, is our on and off the field reputation better or worse. Off the field it’s likely the best it’s ever been, on the field it’s the worst it’s been in 20 years.

I was telling a friend the other day that this is the first time we have had a losing record that wasn't 0-1 in what has to be at least twenty years. I may be off a little, but it doesn't really matter. We are a bad football team and I hope this is the bottom.

[Saint3333]

We finished 4-8 in 2013 in our first transition year.

[canes_mj]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

[DenverOfTheEast]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

[appgrad95&97]

Honest question: since halftime of the JMU gsme last year, has anyone seen any indication that we're turning this around. I'll acknowledge the UNC game is a good answer.

[Saint3333]

c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

Should they control the coaching decision?

[AppStFan1]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

[AppStFan1]

Honest question: since halftime of the JMU gsme last year, has anyone seen any indication that we're turning this around. I'll acknowledge the UNC game is a good answer.

So far, no. If we make a statement against USM and win 2-3 in November with a loss being very close then you could argue it. I don't expect us to and believe we will be making a change but if we somehow turn it around in November then Shawn could save his job. We better start to show improvement the next two games or else anything beyond that will be too late.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Honest question: since halftime of the JMU gsme last year, has anyone seen any indication that we're turning this around. I'll acknowledge the UNC game is a good answer.

Do we have 2 more wins if Noel plays vs Coastal and ODU???

We seem to forget that he's our best offensive player coming into the season.

We have a QB - Joey has been really good last 2 ball games except for a fumble costing us a first down.

I think the corner is turned --- this program has hit rock bottom and the incline is coming back, upsets around the corner as #TeamClark will get back to being the big underdog that fits him and his quiet cause.

[PhillyApp1]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

it'll be up to Everts and Gillen
Very important courage test
Pray for sound decisions in the coming 6 weeks

[appgrad95&97]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

Do you really think there are twelve people who have a real say? My guess is that there are two. And maybe three or four who have important input.

[DenverOfTheEast]

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

it'll be up to Everts and Gillen
Very important courage test
Pray for sound decisions in the coming 6 weeks

Last thing I am praying for is App State football decisions, now you on the other hand Mr Philly better pray for the Phillies to win tonight.

[DenverOfTheEast]

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

Do you really think there are twelve people who have a real say? My guess is that there are two. And maybe three or four who have important input.

Gillin will gauge the influence of 6-12 Circle of Fakes to see if he has support, (Ricks, Sofield, Chesson, Harrill family, Avery Hall, Reaves, Derek Gottard, Philip Byers, Scott Lampe, (name I forget on NEZ beside locker room door) that's 9 off top of my head. Probably Joe Gibbs as well as a football person....

This is his line to these people,

"If I have to make a decision do you have my back?"

This was floated last winter over a current HC that he ultimately decided not to move on.

[AppInDC]

We finished 4-8 in 2013 in our first transition year.

And we started off 1-5 in 2014 but closed out strong and finished 7-5.

[ASUTodd]

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

Do you really think there are twelve people who have a real say? My guess is that there are two. And maybe three or four who have important input.

Gillin will gauge the influence of 6-12 Circle of Fakes to see if he has support, (Ricks, Sofield, Chesson, Harrill family, Avery Hall, Reaves, Derek Gottard, Philip Byers, Scott Lampe, (name I forget on NEZ beside locker room door) that's 9 off top of my head. Probably Joe Gibbs as well as a football person....

This is his line to these people,

"If I have to make a decision do you have my back?"

This was floated last winter over a current HC that he ultimately decided not to move on.

What is your agenda? I'm seriously asking. In one post you back Clark like he is your firstborn....the next post you go after him... the next post you go after Gillin...now we get all these other names. What's the end game?

[appgrad95&97]

Honest question: since halftime of the JMU gsme last year, has anyone seen any indication that we're turning this around. I'll acknowledge the UNC game is a good answer.

Do we have 2 more wins if Noel plays vs Coastal and ODU???

We seem to forget that he's our best offensive player coming into the season.

We have a QB - Joey has been really good last 2 ball games except for a fumble costing us a first down.

I think the corner is turned --- this program has hit rock bottom and the incline is coming back, upsets around the corner as #TeamClark will get back to being the big underdog that fits him and his quiet cause.

We are a FIFTY-TWO YARD field goal from a four game loosing streak. We turned a corner LAST YEAR, at half time v. JMU.

[8993]

If the AD/Doug have already made up their mind to keep Shawn with no qualms about it, that's truly disappointing and tells me that we are either hemorrhaging money or Doug really thinks Shawn is the future, even when he has done absolutely nothing to prove that to be true.

This could get really ugly real quick.

[asu1988]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

You bring up some interesting points about our culture. I agree with all those things. I stand by the 16 years I've followed this program. When JM came along, we won championships here and there. In 2005, our players, coaches, and administration decided that mediocrity was not the standard, and they were going to pour themselves into building the university off the back of the football team. Three National Championships and a victory over Michigan later, it was clear that Coach Moore solidified that legacy in how he conducted himself as a head coach. Coach Moore was willing to listen to SS on sticking with the spread offense, which brought us a lot of success. He also hired phenomenal assistants. We had talent then, and we still have it now. In addition, he molded boys into men. That's the family culture that many people came to admire and appreciate.
When SS came along, we had that wash year in 2013. 2014 is where you started to see the change. SS hired good assistants and developed good talent. Since 2015, we are mentioned with the highest winning percentage along with teams like Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Ohio State. We dominated people and won Sun Belt Championships. We took Tennessee and Penn State to overtime.
I'll give Drinkwitz credit where credit is due. He assembled a great staff (Riley, Roof, etc.) He took the talent SS left and let the Lamborghini smooth sail. One fluke loss away from being in a NY6 Bowl.
Now we come to Coach Clark. I gave him every benefit of a doubt as a fellow Mountaineer. The first two years looked promising, but the JMU game last year was the turning point (in a bad way) of our program. We have no outright conference championship under his tenure, 4-7 against main rivals, and our first bowl loss. This season has been a nightmare. Our teams look sloppy and undisciplined. Our playcalling is vanilla and at times very predictable. Defense is young, but very suspect. We don't try to develop the talent that we do have, and the toughness is not there. This makes me wonder with new assistants, is Clark actually letting them do their jobs? Is he a micromanager? We try to get the band back together, but things don't seem to be panning out for SC. I hear he's a nice guy, but his time kinda makes me think of Charlie Weis' tenure at Notre Dame. In those first two years, Weis was successful with guys that Tyrone Willingham recruited. While Weis recruited well, the results were not there in the remainder of his time at ND. Great OC, not a Head Coach. Clark is a great OL coach, he ain't cutting it as the HC. He also turned me off when he got on a press conference saying how he was tired of getting criticized by former players. Many of those former players have championship rings (National or Bowl) to back up that criticism. So, I expect to win conference, or be in contention Every. Single. Year. The standard is there, and SC has not upheld it. If things don't change, I think it's time to go a different route. There are many young up-and-coming coaches that would give anything to coach at App State. We're going to have to become that stepping stone, just like other schools like Cincinnati have been in the past. Another year of this, and you can start to see some empty seats at The Rock.

[AppStFan1]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

NIL/portal will not destroy our program, if used correctly. It's a misperception that these are bad guys with moral/character flaws and that's why they're in the portal....some, sure.... but MOST of these guys are in there because they are looking for a place that is a better fit...they thought they made the right choice, got there and it didn't work out like they thought, and they're looking for somewhere else that maybe fits better. Maybe the coach left...maybe it's not football related at all, maybe they're homesick, maybe there's a family situation..... Do other, non-athlete, regular students change schools? Does it ruin the schools they go to? Do adults ever change jobs? Realize after taking a job it's not gonna work out? ALL those coaches promises they made while recruiting them didn't turn out to be true?....and why can we mold an 18 yr old into a good man, who shares our values and embraces our culture, but not a 19-21 y/o? Why is it too late at that point?

Very true "Used Correctly"

a) What the Portal and NIL did was help the other teams close the gap that App had leading into 2021 SBC play.
b) App State has to be able to take "D's" on a "portal" kids transcript and get them into a major more easily than has been happening in the past.
c) App can't allow a dozen Boosters to dictate and control the team with their NIL donation.

I agree except the problem is what do you do if you need money and those boosters tell you they won't donate if you keep a certain coach or don't consider their candidate? A lot of politics have to be played and that is the way it is at every major FBS program.

So 12 boosters have 12 different candidates, not all will be happy..... one athletic department shouldn't be held hostage to one booster. ask input, but leaders make decisions and move forward.

Many wealthy guys wanted Bobby Lutz and Gillin didn't appease them.

That’s what makes it so complicated. I think as along as you interview them or listen to the booster. They all know that someone will be disappointed in the choice but as long as you win boosters will be happy.