Worst I’ve ever seen

[AppSt94]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

I'll ask on here again. How bad would things have to get before you would agree there needs to be a change. How many years without a conference championship would be acceptable?

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

[AppSt94]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

No doubt the league has gotten significantly better since 2019 but have we? Have we stayed on the same step & they have caught up or have we fell back to meet them in the middle? I believe the vast majority of objective fans would say our steps back have outgrown any steps forward under Clark.

Have we fallen off or we just haven’t accomplished what folks want to define as the standard? I’m not trying to be a smart ass but we have made the CCG 2 of the last 3 years. Yes I understand that we quasi backed into last year because of JMU but had we lost that game, we wouldn’t have even been there to begin with. I mean damn, most fan bases would kill for the consistency that we have had. Especially from a first time head coach.

As I have said, if anyone’s line in the sand is the hoisting of a trophy at the end of the year, then there isn’t anything else that can be seen except failure.

[appgrad95&97]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

I'll ask on here again. How bad would things have to get before you would agree there needs to be a change. How many years without a conference championship would be acceptable?

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

[AppinVA]

Looking for some positivity, I looked to see where ESPN had us headed to for bowl season. Didn't get it. We were nowhere to be seen by either prognosticator.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Memphis hasn’t been in the AAC championship since 2019 and since then they had seasons of 6-6 and 7-6 yet they get mentioned in the list of potential playoff teams- and already lost a conference game.

[bcoach]

Good perspective, Hap. People need to take a breath and see how the rest of the season goes. Many who want Clark fired now were saying the same thing at this point last year. We ended up beating a top 25 team, made the CCG and won a bowl game. Who knows what this year will look like come December. I'm starting to think some of those people wished he had failed last year.

There absolutly are those who wanted him to fail. Heck, look at the next post.

Why would anybody on here want the app state alum head coach fail while coaching app state? Please explain.

I have no explanation. It absolutely mystifies me.

Probably because it’s an asinine thing to think. Hope this helps

Sorry. Too close to home?

[AppSt94]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

I'll ask on here again. How bad would things have to get before you would agree there needs to be a change. How many years without a conference championship would be acceptable?

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

[appgrad95&97]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

I'll ask on here again. How bad would things have to get before you would agree there needs to be a change. How many years without a conference championship would be acceptable?

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

[AppSt94]

I'll ask on here again. How bad would things have to get before you would agree there needs to be a change. How many years without a conference championship would be acceptable?

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

[mountaineerman]

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

Why not?

[ASUFan4863]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

No doubt the league has gotten significantly better since 2019 but have we? Have we stayed on the same step & they have caught up or have we fell back to meet them in the middle? I believe the vast majority of objective fans would say our steps back have outgrown any steps forward under Clark.

Have we fallen off or we just haven’t accomplished what folks want to define as the standard? I’m not trying to be a smart ass but we have made the CCG 2 of the last 3 years. Yes I understand that we quasi backed into last year because of JMU but had we lost that game, we wouldn’t have even been there to begin with. I mean damn, most fan bases would kill for the consistency that we have had. Especially from a first time head coach.

As I have said, if anyone’s line in the sand is the hoisting of a trophy at the end of the year, then there isn’t anything else that can be seen except failure.

“What folks have defined as the standard”? You mean what Clark has said is the standard? Championships…. Is that still the standard?

[ASUFan4863]

I’m having trouble keeping up with the circles

[appgrad95&97]

Define bad? A losing record, internal strife, losing the team? All of those are more justifiable for moving on then the lack of conference titles. If conference title is the hill that you choose to die on for salvation and satisfaction then I doubt that you will ever be happy because as soon as he wins one, you’ll want the next one.

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

Well, if I thought we could do better... I don't have confidence that Doug would do better. But I'm not going to lie, I want better than this. I want to be a top G5 team AGAIN. That may never happen, but it is, absolutely, what I want.

[AppSt94]

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

Well, if I thought we could do better... I don't have confidence that Doug would do better. But I'm not going to lie, I want better than this. I want to be a top G5 team AGAIN. That may never happen, but it is, absolutely, what I want.

I definitely think that it could happen. I think that it can happen with Clark. Thing is, unless there are some guardrails pit in place around the portal and NIL, I just don’t think that you are going to see teams staying on top consistently. There is just too much volatility in today’s college landscape to expect it.

[AppSt94]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

No doubt the league has gotten significantly better since 2019 but have we? Have we stayed on the same step & they have caught up or have we fell back to meet them in the middle? I believe the vast majority of objective fans would say our steps back have outgrown any steps forward under Clark.

Have we fallen off or we just haven’t accomplished what folks want to define as the standard? I’m not trying to be a smart ass but we have made the CCG 2 of the last 3 years. Yes I understand that we quasi backed into last year because of JMU but had we lost that game, we wouldn’t have even been there to begin with. I mean damn, most fan bases would kill for the consistency that we have had. Especially from a first time head coach.

As I have said, if anyone’s line in the sand is the hoisting of a trophy at the end of the year, then there isn’t anything else that can be seen except failure.

“What folks have defined as the standard”? You mean what Clark has said is the standard? Championships…. Is that still the standard?

Has he used the words standards and championships in the same sentence? Everyone’s goal in college athletics is to win a championship. That’s not unique to App.

[AppSt94]

We have fallen off. We were very arguably in the top third of the FBS. We're not not. There may be very good reasons for it. But we are not the team we were '16-'19.

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

Why not?

He hasn’t done anything to warrant being relieved of his duties. Failure to living up to the fan’s expectations isn’t justification.

[Saint3333]

Draw a line graph of App’s final RPI or Sagarin rating from 2015-2023. There was a peak and we’ve trended downward since a high of 2019.

2023 was higher than 2022 and I hope 2024 is better than 2023, we’ll see.

[Saint3333]

As I’ve seen that for many of you that are CCG or bust, I decided to look into the numbers between the quality of competition that those championships were won versus now.

2014-2018 2019 2020-2023
W/L. 48-16 13-1 34-18
Win %. 75%. 93% 65%
Conf Foes W/L 261-343 53-60 279-268
W/L % 43%. 47% 51%
# of .500+ teams 3 4 7

The 2018 was the 1st year of divisions and a true CCG. An 11-2 App beat a 7-7 Louisiana
2019 a 13-1 App beat an 11-3 Louisiana.

The point to all of this is that the league has gotten significantly better over the last few years. It doesn’t take away from those CC won prior to 2020 but it does put in perspective how much easier that path was compared to now.

No doubt the league has gotten significantly better since 2019 but have we? Have we stayed on the same step & they have caught up or have we fell back to meet them in the middle? I believe the vast majority of objective fans would say our steps back have outgrown any steps forward under Clark.

Have we fallen off or we just haven’t accomplished what folks want to define as the standard? I’m not trying to be a smart ass but we have made the CCG 2 of the last 3 years. Yes I understand that we quasi backed into last year because of JMU but had we lost that game, we wouldn’t have even been there to begin with. I mean damn, most fan bases would kill for the consistency that we have had. Especially from a first time head coach.

As I have said, if anyone’s line in the sand is the hoisting of a trophy at the end of the year, then there isn’t anything else that can be seen except failure.

“What folks have defined as the standard”? You mean what Clark has said is the standard? Championships…. Is that still the standard?

Has he used the words standards and championships in the same sentence? Everyone’s goal in college athletics is to win a championship. That’s not unique to App.

He actually went a step further.

Quote from Forbes:

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

[mountaineerman]

Those teams, especially 18 and 19 had some insane talent that got invites to the next level. Meech, ADG, SJC, Jackson, Hampton, Jolly, Evans, Virgil, Hennigan, Sutton, Pearson, Hodges, Fehr, Josh Thomas, Nick Ross, Steven Jones, Neuzil. Not all of them translated to sticking in the NFL but that roster was loaded. How many G5s had that much talent on one roster? To replicate that in today’s game is near impossible.

To use that era as a benchmark is unfair because that was clearly a peak and unsustainable.

Fair enough, but then don't say we haven't fallen off.

Ok. But it still doesn’t warrant a change of leadership.

Why not?

He hasn’t done anything to warrant being relieved of his duties. Failure to living up to the fan’s expectations isn’t justification.

94 did you attend the game Thursday in person? That’s an honest question.

[ASUFan4863]

It’s interesting how everyone within the football program says the standard is to win championships, we recruit players on the premise of them winning championships, but now it is unrealistic expectations from fans to need a championship once in 5 years?

We can still win a championship this season but ignoring the reality that we were throttled 42-14 in our first conference game - a ring game as Clark calls it (you know to reach his own championship standard) - is a bit delusional.