Doeren Scared of App State?

[BambooRdApp]

Not sure it is scared..more so, it is commissioner does not want an ACC Power school playing a Group school on the road...not sure if it is revenue related, giving Group legitimacy in whatever way, or some other reason.
Although I am sure NC State will take game seriously, the coach at NC State does not think his team will get beat whether home or on the road...just my opinion.

the commissioner does not lead the conference. The member schools CEOs do. The commissioner does nothing that the schools don't approve of. And judging by the fact that SIX (6) ACC schools are playing away at G level schools in 2025 with zero consequences tells me that the schools don't actually care about playing away at G schools, its just one particular acc school that doesn't want to play at one particular g school.

Comments from N&O a couple of years ago.

After the ACC played 10 games at Group of 5 opponents last year — and lost three of them — commissioner Jim Phillips asked schools to avoid those games in the future, at considerable expense.


Sure, the schools manage their own schedules, however commissioner is going to try to influence it. It takes time to realign schedules.
Whether future away games happen, time will tell.

[AtlAppMan]

Part of this is the ACC is trying to make themselves feel like they are a bigger player in the P4 world. If we are a top 25 team it doesn't matter but the ACC wants to act like they are bigger fish than reality justifies. Yes, they have more resources but we have the same number of scholarships that they do. Do the Pittsburgh Pirates have as much resources as the NY Yankees, NO. But they play in the same league and are expected to be as competitive. The owner of the Yankees doesn't say we should never lose to them, although he may think that, it is not reality. Same for APP vs most ACC schools.

This is all a collective marketing ploy to try to make the ACC look head and shoulders above the top G teams. That is why Mack Brown kept saying, "we should never lose to a G5".

[Saint3333]

I don't think SEC schools should travel to ACC schools.

[ASUFan4863]

Of course he doesn't want to play but let us just break down a few of his points just because it is the off season it is always a sore subject for our fans. Let me bypass the obvious excuse because "the commissioner said so" and just focus on his points.

The reasoning behind not wanting to play a Group of Five school on the road comes from when North Carolina went to App State and won 63-61 in 2022, Doeren said. Despite leaving with the win and surviving a fourth quarter that featured 62 total points, the Tar Heels went from receiving nine coaches poll votes to just three. That didn’t sit right with the ACC and Doeren can see the thinking behind it.

“Where’s the value in the game as a program?” Doeren said. “I understand it helps them, but you’re not in the business to help the other school. You’re in the business to help your school. Any road win against another opponent shouldn’t hurt you in the rankings, and it did hurt them.

IMO the problem was not that they lost but HOW they lost. It exposed that they were not as good as they were thought by pollsters. Anytime a team puts up 61 pts on you that is not UGA or top team, it leaves a bad taste. I would assume if that happened against a fellow ACC or SEC team they would have yielded the same ranking outcome. Am I wrong?

That comment by Dave is hilarious
You are correct. If you give up 61 points and collapse in the 4th quarter, people are going to think less of your team win or lose. The pollsters were right.

Dave and Shawn were buddies. I’m sure the coaching change has no impact on this newfound desire to cancel a newly signed contract.

[Mjohn1988]

What sux to me is that he sees “no value” in playing an in state team that can compete. When do the people of NC start to matter in this equation? Every time we play an in state FBS team the people of NC prove, with their presence, that the game has value to them. The actual people who foot the bill to keep these universities open want these games and that should matter.

[AtlAppMan]

What sux to me is that he sees “no value” in playing an in state team that can compete. When do the people of NC start to matter in this equation? Every time we play an in state FBS team the people of NC prove, with their presence, that the game has value to them. The actual people who foot the bill to keep these universities open want these games and that should matter.

He’s like a politician, he sees “no value” but his constituents “the fans” pack the house to see these types of games. I agree fans see value.

[Saint3333]

He sees value in “regional” non-conference games vs UVA…

[AppWyo]

NC State sees no value in playing Appalachian which shows the delusional level that NC State has as a national football power. A loss to Appalachian would be bad for their program nationally, but I do not see NC State ever having a shot at a national championship in football. I believe Appalachian has a better shot at winning a national championship in football currently than NC State does regardless of who they play or do not play. Heck, I believe that any team in the Sun Belt East has a better shot at making the playoffs in football before NC State does. Just because they are not scared to play anyone and four of them have the championships to prove it as well as nationally ranked wins. The other three are relevant as well nationally. I guess when East Carolina plays them this year, we will see who is relevant...

[AppWyo]

He sees value in “regional” non-conference games vs UVA…

I think that is all some conferences want to do is play each other so no one can see who they really are until after they make the playoffs. The autonomous four do not want anyone to see behind the curtain.

[JTApps1]

NC State sees no value in playing Appalachian which shows the delusional level that NC State has as a national football power. A loss to Appalachian would be bad for their program nationally, but I do not see NC State ever having a shot at a national championship in football. I believe Appalachian has a better shot at winning a national championship in football currently than NC State does regardless of who they play or do not play. Heck, I believe that any team in the Sun Belt East has a better shot at making the playoffs in football before NC State does. Just because they are not scared to play anyone and four of them have the championships to prove it as well as nationally ranked wins. The other three are relevant as well nationally. I guess when East Carolina plays them this year, we will see who is relevant...

I don't see how a single loss to App or a similar school would have any sort of impact outside of that season. Plenty of G5 teams have beaten P4/5 from every conference over the years. Do you think anyone at Texas A&M is thinking about their loss to us in 2022?

[BambooRdApp]

NC State sees no value in playing Appalachian which shows the delusional level that NC State has as a national football power. A loss to Appalachian would be bad for their program nationally, but I do not see NC State ever having a shot at a national championship in football. I believe Appalachian has a better shot at winning a national championship in football currently than NC State does regardless of who they play or do not play. Heck, I believe that any team in the Sun Belt East has a better shot at making the playoffs in football before NC State does. Just because they are not scared to play anyone and four of them have the championships to prove it as well as nationally ranked wins. The other three are relevant as well nationally. I guess when East Carolina plays them this year, we will see who is relevant...

I don't see how a single loss to App or a similar school would have any sort of impact outside of that season. Plenty of G5 teams have beaten P4/5 from every conference over the years. Do you think anyone at Texas A&M is thinking about their loss to us in 2022?

Lloyd Care and Jimbo Fisher may disagree.

I actually agree with you...

[Bigdaddyg1]

What exactly is the best schedule for a team like State? Should they play FCS? Play traditionally different power schools? Play G5’s from the MAC? Seems like there is some excuse or rationale for not playing every team.

[AppSt94]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

[AppinVA]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

Maybe to an extent, but there is a stated difference between FBS and FCS — the scholarship difference, which results in an official distinction in classification. Other than conference affiliation, there is no official metric separating the P4 from the others in FBS. Both NC State and App are eligible for the same playoff. Both are FBS. You might argue it’s in name only, and in many ways you’re right, but there is no official classification difference between NC State and Appalachian.

[appst89]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

Until the P4 breaks away, that is not an apples to apples comparison. NC State and App play the same level of football. App and Western do not. That is a huge difference. When the P4 breaks away, then the logic will be the same. Right now, it isn't.

[AppSt94]

While the argument that there are differences in scholarships and classification is true, that’s not what I am referring to when I was referencing the logic. Doreen never spoke about a talent difference in his remarks. He spoke to playing a “lesser” opponent, and yes, that is what a G5 is considered, on the road does not have value to his program. He also spoke to the recruiting value. Which again is true. App playing at a Western or Furman holds the same logic for App.

[appst89]

While the argument that there are differences in scholarships and classification is true, that’s not what I am referring to when I was referencing the logic. Doreen never spoke about a talent difference in his remarks. He spoke to playing a “lesser” opponent, and yes, that is what a G5 is considered, on the road does not have value to his program. He also spoke to the recruiting value. Which again is true. App playing at a Western or Furman holds the same logic for App.

Agree to disagree.

[BallantyneApp]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

[BallantyneApp]

NC State sees no value in playing Appalachian which shows the delusional level that NC State has as a national football power. A loss to Appalachian would be bad for their program nationally, but I do not see NC State ever having a shot at a national championship in football. I believe Appalachian has a better shot at winning a national championship in football currently than NC State does regardless of who they play or do not play. Heck, I believe that any team in the Sun Belt East has a better shot at making the playoffs in football before NC State does. Just because they are not scared to play anyone and four of them have the championships to prove it as well as nationally ranked wins. The other three are relevant as well nationally. I guess when East Carolina plays them this year, we will see who is relevant...

I don't see how a single loss to App or a similar school would have any sort of impact outside of that season. Plenty of G5 teams have beaten P4/5 from every conference over the years. Do you think anyone at Texas A&M is thinking about their loss to us in 2022?

Lloyd Care and Jimbo Fisher may disagree.

I actually agree with you...

Jimbo got paid like $70MM not to coach.
Clark and the team should be on his Christmas card list and in his prayers every night before he goes to sleep.

[AppSt94]

His logic on why they should not play App in Boone is the same logic some on here applied to why App shouldn’t play at Western.

No it’s not.

Show me one example of an FBS program playing away at an fcs program in the modern era. Just one.

This is like the Yankees saying they will not play away at the Tampa bay rays and you saying it’s the same as Tampa refusing to play at the Charlotte Knights.

I don’t need too because it has likely not happened. Again, read the article. His logic was based on a lack of value to his program. You are adding parameters that weren’t mentioned in the article to make your point.

Edit: A quick Google search shows that it has happened quite a bit. “Yes, FBS teams have played at FCS teams' home fields. This has happened over 250 times since 1978, including instances of FBS teams traveling to FCS teams that were then part of the FBS. For example, Idaho (a former FBS team) lost at Montana (an FCS team) in 2003.”