Does culture matter anymore?

[311neers]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

I most certainly care if an ACC team beats us by 40. That conference is horrible. There are only a few teams that I'd be okay with beating us by 40 in the whole country.

[ASUFan4863]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

Why is it okay if a P4 team beats us by 40 but if a Top 25, playoff program does it from the MWC everyone is upset? Haven’t we been saying for years that the top G5 programs are just as good as the P4?

Also - we are competing in the sun belt. Boise State is better than any team in the sun belt.

[fjblair]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

NIL and the portal killed college football. RIP. It was a good run.

[fjblair]

What exactly is/was our “culture”? I don’t ask this to be argumentative but I see words batted around like brand and I really don’t know exactly what is meant by that. You never hear a school mentioned as a culture of losing even if they generally don’t win much. I can’t see many more examples of the kid who grew up loving a certain school then actually signing and playing with that school. Has that love for a school and hate for a rival really mattered to a majority of college players for years? I heard some talk on this subject recently on the radio specifically about the ACC. Even the Duke/UNC basketball rivalry has so many one and done guys do they really care? Does that I give my all plaque carry any meaning anymore?

Whatever it is, it can only exist in an environment with continuity and stability. Neither of those is possible when every year is essentially a rebuild.

[AppStFan1]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

I most certainly care if an ACC team beats us by 40. That conference is horrible. There are only a few teams that I'd be okay with beating us by 40 in the whole country.

In my head I was thinking if they are ranked. I don't want to lose to anyone by 40 but I understand it. This new era is where App has to do a better job of scouting HS and the portal. I refuse to believe there are not impact recruits and transfers being overlooked that we could bring in every year.

I think people believe if you throw money at something it is fixed. If money is all that mattered then we never would have beat Michigan, A&M, UNC, or SC. We just have to be wise with our money and our staff and players have to make less mistakes. More money would help retain players like Armanti Edwards, Evans, Coakley, ADG, etc in the program for 4 years these days but we still need to keep looking for under the radar players.

[AppStFan1]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

Why is it okay if a P4 team beats us by 40 but if a Top 25, playoff program does it from the MWC everyone is upset? Haven’t we been saying for years that the top G5 programs are just as good as the P4?

Also - we are competing in the sun belt. Boise State is better than any team in the sun belt.

There are rarely a playoff caliber team in the MWC and honestly I am not upset by the Boise State loss. My only complaints are that Swann has not shown he can read defenses or has the arm to overcome lacking in that and we are making mistakes that hurt us. No matter what we were going to lose to Boise. We have the exact record I expected us to have at this point.

I never said we aren't competing in the Sun Belt. I just said we should and have no reason not to. 100% with you that Boise State is better than everyone in Sun Belt. What we did not know in the preseason is that South Florida is likely to be a good team this year so I think that skewed the expectation for some fans.

I expect to win a close game against Oregon State but lose to ODU, JMU, and 1-2 more outside of that. Loggains took over a mess. We also have some key players injured that we need to get back and cut down on turnovers.

[BambooRdApp]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

Why is it okay if a P4 team beats us by 40 but if a Top 25, playoff program does it from the MWC everyone is upset? Haven’t we been saying for years that the top G5 programs are just as good as the P4?

Also - we are competing in the sun belt. Boise State is better than any team in the sun belt.

There are rarely a playoff caliber team in the MWC and honestly I am not upset by the Boise State loss. My only complaints are that Swann has not shown he can read defenses or has the arm to overcome lacking in that and we are making mistakes that hurt us. No matter what we were going to lose to Boise. We have the exact record I expected us to have at this point.

I never said we aren't competing in the Sun Belt. I just said we should and have no reason not to. 100% with you that Boise State is better than everyone in Sun Belt. What we did not know in the preseason is that South Florida is likely to be a good team this year so I think that skewed the expectation for some fans.

I expect to win a close game against Oregon State but lose to ODU, JMU, and 1-2 more outside of that. Loggains took over a mess. We also have some key players injured that we need to get back and cut down on turnovers.

Oregon State may be the best 0-4 team in country (and may have a Heisman or two on the roster )...On a more serious note. I give them credit for playing a tough schedule. IMO, Fresno St may have been their weakest opponent. Fresno best Stink 42-14.
I think this game will be way more difficult than what people think. Their winless record may give impression that they are not that good.
Yes, I will pick App to win. I always do...

[Bigdaddyg1]

Perhaps our staff needs to rethink where we find quarterbacks. There is probably a really good reason why some 3rd stringer at Texas or Alabama is available and hitting the portal. It’s also probably not the greatest idea to be enamored with dudes who are leaving power schools. I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died? Nearly every incoming player to a D1 school was either a major star or starter on his high school team. There has always been a level of expectation by these players that they will immediately play at the next level. As has been said we made a living off of the low 3 star overlooked guy. I can’t imagine what the portal evaluation process involves but how much can a staff glean from a 20 year old who stood on the sidelines for two seasons? Are they using 3 year old high school film?

I agree that part of our culture involved getting that chip on the shoulder authentic young guy. We got those dudes who wanted to prove they were overlooked. That might be harder to find now but I can’t help but think it’s possible. We brought in a big back from mighty Tennessee and unless he’s hurt he has one carry for 3 yards.

[ASUFan4863]

Perhaps our staff needs to rethink where we find quarterbacks. There is probably a really good reason why some 3rd stringer at Texas or Alabama is available and hitting the portal. It’s also probably not the greatest idea to be enamored with dudes who are leaving power schools. I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died? Nearly every incoming player to a D1 school was either a major star or starter on his high school team. There has always been a level of expectation by these players that they will immediately play at the next level. As has been said we made a living off of the low 3 star overlooked guy. I can’t imagine what the portal evaluation process involves but how much can a staff glean from a 20 year old who stood on the sidelines for two seasons? Are they using 3 year old high school film?

I agree that part of our culture involved getting that chip on the shoulder authentic young guy. We got those dudes who wanted to prove they were overlooked. That might be harder to find now but I can’t help but think it’s possible. We brought in a big back from mighty Tennessee and unless he’s hurt he has one carry for 3 yards.

It’s easy to say that but hard to implement when you are given a month to fill 50 roster spots. There were some questioning if we would even field a roster in the winter to reach the projected 105 limit. At some point, you have to take what is available and bet on “potential”, which is what I think we are seeing with a few of the transfers. Some of them are reaching their potential (Dubinon, Cummings, Manuel) and others have not.

[rbarthle17]

I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died?

Yes. The unlimited portal usage has killed that idea dead.

[ASUFan4863]

I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died?

Yes. The unlimited portal usage has killed that idea dead.

I think this thought is so overblown. In the vast majority of cases, players aren’t transferring because they are afraid to compete. Take Dubinon and Cummings for example. Both in their last season but both 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at their old school. They aren’t afraid of working hard for their spot, they just want a fair shake. Same thing with Joey at UCLA. He would have competed like crazy but he wasn’t going to be given a fair shot.

I think most of the time, it applies to the “diva” positions - QB and WRs. They draw the most attention obviously.

[rbarthle17]

Oregon State just took one of the few remaining undefeated schools left (read: an actual playoff contender at this stage) to overtime. We were a carcass on the side of the road after competing against a similar program (Boise is definitely a playoff contender in the G5).

I think we all need to be very realistic about things. We need a near perfect game this week to win in terms of limiting mistakes. If we keep going the way we have been, it's going to get ugly fast to an 0-5 team that has played an infinitely harder schedule than we have.

[rbarthle17]

I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died?

Yes. The unlimited portal usage has killed that idea dead.

I think this thought is so overblown. In the vast majority of cases, players aren’t transferring because they are afraid to compete. Take Dubinon and Cummings for example. Both in their last season but both 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at their old school. They aren’t afraid of working hard for their spot, they just want a fair shake. Same thing with Joey at UCLA. He would have competed like crazy but he wasn’t going to be given a fair shot.

I think most of the time, it applies to the “diva” positions - QB and WRs. They draw the most attention obviously.

At this stage I think I would rather get the portal players looking to jump up from 1-AA or D-2 where they have starred, than take the 3rd or 4th stringers from the SEC. We need players that are at least time tested with on field collegiate experience right now.

[ASUTodd]

NIL is being used as an excuse for failure these days. Money was changing hands long before NIL was around. NIL just made it public and lifted any sanctions that could be imposed if caught. Look back at SMU, Reggie Bush, and others.... Now the way the portal has been used can be attributed to issues with teams building talent. Upcoming changes to the portal may fix some of that, who knows. Some players transfer for money and some transfer for playing time. It wasn't as prolific years ago but still happened. The funny thing is everyone is saying culture is dead..... culture isn't tied to a single person. Saying that we need to have an App alumni coach the team is just crazy.... while its nice if you have someone capable of doing it, it sucks when they aren't. You want a coach that will afford your players, team, school every opportunity to succeed. He doesn't have to be an alumni to do that. The school admin (mainly AD) should be all in on traditions and keeping them alive for gamedays. The school should hold the coaches accountable for making sure that players are living up to our expectations as students and athletes. When I think of culture I look at Chancellor Peacock. He kept traditions alive, kept alumni/staff/students/partners all engaged in the school. We just reset the table for App State football. We just gotta see how it plays out. Will the new Chancellor help keep our traditions and culture alive? Will DG make sure that we keep on the road we need to be on? Will Coach DL hold the team and his staff to the standards we have at App State? Time will tell. This time next year we will have an answer.

[MrCraig]

As a fairly recent graduate who was in school before & during COVID and with siblings & friends who graduated even more recently, I’ve seen a huge shift in our culture. COVID, NIL, the transfer portal, and social media have essentially killed what made App State football special. “Today I Give My All for Appalachian State” used to mean giving your all not just for the team, but for the whole school, Boone, and the community.

To me, the turning point wasn’t NIL. It was COVID. Before COVID, there weren’t any online classes. The football players were true student athletes. In my gen-ed classes and in Peacock, most of them sat up front, stayed engaged, asked questions. They were my fellow classmates. We would have group projects together, play pickup basketball, or just catch up on life. They were real people, and felt more like friends than anything else. In my experience outside of one guy, none of them walked around and acted like they were better than anyone. Now? The majority of them have at least a few online classes, which makes sense with their schedules. However with that, you miss out on the connections and simple interactions with your fellow students. You miss out on your classmates and professors congratulating you after a win. You essentially lose the student in student-athlete.

To me, Boone was the perfect college town with half being locals and half being students. App almost felt like a big high school where everyone knew each other, in a good way. I couldn’t imagine App without Boone, vice versa. Now, the student population is booming and with online classes, it’s easier for students (and players) to go unnoticed. That didn’t happen a few years ago. Back then, players were noticed. They were loved and appreciated. And with that, they brought energy on their own on the field. You didn’t have to try and teach that. It didn’t matter if you were a third-string OL man jumping up and down on the metal benches while waving a towel or the star WR who just scored a TD that ran down the sideline high-fiving students—you were all in. You loved Appalachian State, loved Boone, your classmates, your teachers, the fans. You wanted to give your all for them.

Social media. Social media consumes more of our time now than ever before. With NIL, players are practically forced to be on social media for brand deal opportunities. A perfect example of this happening is at Clemson. From 2015 to 2020, Clemson football players did not go social media during the entire season. They all bought in. Eliminated the distractions and the noise. During that time every single year, they went to the playoffs. Won the National Championship twice during that time. Now, they cannot do that with the importance of NIL and players’ own personal brands. Dabo harps on the media more than ever and the negative impacts of social media. The media and folks like to make fun of him for it but the results speak for themselves.

There are other small factors at play too. Ultimately, we’re at a crossroads of either accepting the new reality or fighting to keep the culture alive. You can go and try to hire the best of the best and disregard culture or you can try to build a staff full of App guys who know and live the culture. However, that’s what Shawn did and unfortunately fans didn’t love the results. Clemson is obviously trying to do the same thing. They hire Clemson guys and stick with their own to preserve identity. Sure, some of those coaches lack lengthy coaching experience, but they were former players who believe in the culture. However, the results aren’t there right now and Clemson fans and the media are hitting them with nepotism talk. At the end of the day, online classes, NIL, social media, and the transfer portal aren’t going away. So as a collective. we have to decide do we chase potential short-term highs and deal with ever changing staffs and rosters that come with being a G5 school or when the next staff change comes, do we double down on identity—even if it means some mediocrity along the way? Does culture matter more than always chasing wins?

Unfortunately, I wish you were just talking about college football and not American culture in general. I think we may look back at COVID as major turning point in American (or even global) history that led to an angrier, lonelier, more polarized culture.
Folks watch concerts through their phone screens. People scroll at the dinner table instead of interacting with each other. Social media emphasizes and exacerbates all our worst qualities as Americans and humans. Until we, as an entire national culture, see the negative in that, it isn't going to get better.

[Black Saturday]

NIL killed App State football. I really hope I’m wrong, but we simply don’t have the money to keep up.

I just don’t like this as an excuse to not be competitive in the Sun Belt. The gap between us and P4’s, yes. But we should compete year in and year out in the Sun Belt.

GO APPS!!

1000%! I can accept if a SEC or ACC team beats us by 40 but we can be competitive in the Sun Belt. It is not like we are bottom 5 in budget, facilities, etc. There is no excuse to not compete in the Sun Belt.

Why is it okay if a P4 team beats us by 40 but if a Top 25, playoff program does it from the MWC everyone is upset? Haven’t we been saying for years that the top G5 programs are just as good as the P4?

Also - we are competing in the sun belt. Boise State is better than any team in the sun belt.

I really don't like the way i've enjoyed college football my whole life being turned on it's head but

I like the semi pro baseball analogy being an ok picture for the budegts of the NIL college football world,

APP falls into single A, until our NIL budget is divulged to the public

Ohio St and the like with up to $20M to buy players = triple AAA of course

[Bootsy]

From my post after the Lindenwood game:

I know it's early but I'm starting to worry about Coach. The players seem more interested in seeking the limelight then they are in playing good fundamental football. Way too many personal foul's, not protecting the ball, and trying to thread the football where it doesn't belong. They're playing for themselves, not the team.

We no longer have the App football traditions we're used to, neither the Coach or the players.

Remember last year when App was dealing with many of the issues you reference above? And an App guy was our HC.

[Bootsy]

Perhaps our staff needs to rethink where we find quarterbacks. There is probably a really good reason why some 3rd stringer at Texas or Alabama is available and hitting the portal. It’s also probably not the greatest idea to be enamored with dudes who are leaving power schools. I get wanting playing time but has the idea of working hard for a spot died? Nearly every incoming player to a D1 school was either a major star or starter on his high school team. There has always been a level of expectation by these players that they will immediately play at the next level. As has been said we made a living off of the low 3 star overlooked guy. I can’t imagine what the portal evaluation process involves but how much can a staff glean from a 20 year old who stood on the sidelines for two seasons? Are they using 3 year old high school film?

I agree that part of our culture involved getting that chip on the shoulder authentic young guy. We got those dudes who wanted to prove they were overlooked. That might be harder to find now but I can’t help but think it’s possible. We brought in a big back from mighty Tennessee and unless he’s hurt he has one carry for 3 yards.

It’s easy to say that but hard to implement when you are given a month to fill 50 roster spots. There were some questioning if we would even field a roster in the winter to reach the projected 105 limit. At some point, you have to take what is available and bet on “potential”, which is what I think we are seeing with a few of the transfers. Some of them are reaching their potential (Dubinon, Cummings, Manuel) and others have not.

This is huge…and it’s something we all tend to forget. Case in point: a very similar scenario happened to UNC when BB took over, and they’ve also struggled.

[agentpaul001]

We should/should've concentrated on what makes App different as opposed to getting into the trenches on the NIL / wannabe SEC coach train. Anyone wowed by DL's history prior to here? Let's be real about those teams and their records in aggregate...

App won't ever compete on a dollar to dollar basis so I think it was asinine to pursue a similar route from a coaching and NIL perspective. Instead take a fraction of that NIL money, invest it into App's great communications department & student/alumni run social teams. App has a social media presence far outweighing the size of our university and while I'm not on tiktok the players are (and future fans). Reach them where they are. If you can't pay the players in actual cash, pay them in media (to an extent). The university already produces great content for the team. Do more of it on a personalized basis for the players and prospective recruits. Build their social networks & have them tied to the university to the greatest extent possible. Support the alumni running some of the fan socials (hosting, access, limited support, and so on).

As far as DL, I genuinely hope it gets better, but if not I hope whoevever we get has a history of actually winning football games... (regardless of level)

[ASUTodd]

We should/should've concentrated on what makes App different as opposed to getting into the trenches on the NIL / wannabe SEC coach train. Anyone wowed by DL's history prior to here? Let's be real about those teams and their records in aggregate...

App won't ever compete on a dollar to dollar basis so I think it was asinine to pursue a similar route from a coaching and NIL perspective. Instead take a fraction of that NIL money, invest it into App's great communications department & student/alumni run social teams. App has a social media presence far outweighing the size of our university and while I'm not on tiktok the players are (and future fans). Reach them where they are. If you can't pay the players in actual cash, pay them in media (to an extent). The university already produces great content for the team. Do more of it on a personalized basis for the players and prospective recruits. Build their social networks & have them tied to the university to the greatest extent possible. Support the alumni running some of the fan socials (hosting, access, limited support, and so on).

As far as DL, I genuinely hope it gets better, but if not I hope whoevever we get has a history of actually winning football games... (regardless of level)

Someone is bitter.....